Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
No it's definitely not just you. Many people feel the same way. One of the main reasons why I didn't think it was that good of a movie.

Yeah I definitely see that as valid.

While I enjoyed the movie, I certainly recognize it could have leagues better (or worse, for that matter - we cannot know for certain) had the studio given full control to the director. But in this day and age, that just doesn't happen, directors do not get full oversight of their movie, they have to cater to the wishes and desires of they who fund the production.

I'm glad JJ was able to set a certain tone. There was a ton of pressure when bringing this franchise back to a huge money making realm, that they had to set it up right. With further sequels (I doubt it'll end at Episode IX), and side-stories in the works, Disney for obvious reasons wanted to have it their way.

While I do not expect Disney to relinquish control going forward, I do hope that they loosen the reigns a tad for Episode VIII and IX. With different directors for both (like the original series), they could at least carry the original tradition of having a slightly different tone for each film. I know I should temper them, but I have high hopes for the following movies. I think they can pull it off, and Disney might just let it happen. But then again, perhaps not, as they maintain a strong grip on The Avengers productions.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
While I enjoyed the movie, I certainly recognize it could have leagues better (or worse, for that matter - we cannot know for certain) had the studio given full control to the director. But in this day and age, that just doesn't happen, directors do not get full oversight of their movie, they have to cater to the wishes and desires of they who fund the production.

There are definitely some directors that get final cut and I'm surprised JJ did not get that on Star Wars (if true).


After posting my above comments, I went ahead and watched it again and my feelings are the same - lots of fanboy service (same droids, quotes, etc), but holy shit it's ANH + Empire, with set on both Endor and Hoth.

Starting with the very beginning, with the whole "let's hide this data on the droid and send it off to find a jedi" to the near shot for shot remake of the final run on the death star...it's the same fucking movie as ANH. And then they threw in the "Luke, I am your father" shit but it's now "Kylo, I am your father".

At the end of the day, I can't accurately rate this movie because I was such a huge SW geek for a while, there's just too much bias from nostalgia.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,751
4,558
136
Imagine if it picked up at a point where the rebels were transitioning from being an effective hit and run military to making a less oppressive government that works, but they're struggling. Their forces are spread thin as they strain to police the galaxy with a fraction of the ships the Imperials had in their prime. All the while imperial remnants seeing the futility in big budget super weapons and forced to deal with reduced tax revenue start to adapt and fall back on the hit and run tactics used against them so successfully for so long.

Imagine 7 opening with a holo vid showing the Death Star's destruction and death of the Emperor 30 years ago as an act of terrorism. Show us propaganda of rebels "bringing instability where once there was order" to say the people of Kuat system that largely made their livelihoods and fed their families off imperial contracts to mass produce Star Destroyers that are now displaced in the galaxy. The line between freedom fighter and terrorist becomes blurred. Peace seems farther away than ever. And then you have Finn, a guy who wanted to join the academy (instead of being kidnapped/programmed) like Luke but actually succeeds in enrolling, being taken in by propaganda. You could see the arc of a good person similar to Luke in his youth being taken down a different path and attempting to fight the evil that he perceives.

There was so much potential to move the story forward. You could have had powerful themes of different points of view and the pitfalls of toppling an oppressive but otherwise stable government. I imagine something along these lines is what George had in mind when he wanted to craft the story narrative, but Disney vetoes him to play it safe.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Imagine if it picked up at a point where the rebels were transitioning from being an effective hit and run military to making a less oppressive government that works, but they're struggling. Their forces are spread thin as they strain to police the galaxy with a fraction of the ships the Imperials had in their prime. All the while imperial remnants seeing the futility in big budget super weapons and forced to deal with reduced tax revenue start to adapt and fall back on the hit and run tactics used against them so successfully for so long.

Imagine 7 opening with a holo vid showing the Death Star's destruction and death of the Emperor 30 years ago as an act of terrorism. Show us propaganda of rebels "bringing instability where once there was order" to say the people of Kuat system that largely made their livelihoods and fed their families off imperial contracts to mass produce Star Destroyers that are now displaced in the galaxy. The line between freedom fighter and terrorist becomes blurred. Peace seems farther away than ever. And then you have Finn, a guy who wanted to join the academy (instead of being kidnapped/programmed) like Luke but actually succeeds in enrolling, being taken in by propaganda. You could see the arc of a good person similar to Luke in his youth being taken down a different path and attempting to fight the evil that he perceives.

There was so much potential to move the story forward. You could have had powerful themes of different points of view and the pitfalls of toppling an oppressive but otherwise stable government. I imagine something alone these lines is what George had in mind when he wanted to craft the overall story narrative, but Disney vetoes him to play it safe.

I doubt that was ever on Lucas's mind. He never seemed to even hint at the underlying politics and finances of government. I mean, a little in the prequels, but not much more than a caricature/stereotype. Instead, the story was boiled down to more of a good v. evil situation, not one rich in subtext.

Would I love to see that? Absofuckinglutely. And I don't think Disney would veto that, not at all actually. There's a lot of value to having a deeper theme to a story like Star Wars. See how much relevant modern day politics is creeping into the different superhero movies? It's still relatively high-level, posed as more of an existential question with a subtext of "government is evil.. we must fight to be free!"... but it's definitely a talking point. Star Wars, having such an intricate history in the story franchise, could easily incorporate this, make it that much better, but you do have to be careful how you go about it, it has to be sort of subtext and not a focal point.

Look at how the prequels fared when trying to provide more detail of how things work in the universe. The Galactic Senate was integrated but was hardly required for the larger plot, and then there was the midichlorians thing.

Could all of that remained in the plot but incorporated more deftly by superior writers had Lucas not been surrounded by yes men and actually had a competent team? Definitely.

So while I started off on the contrary, perhaps I do see now that Lucas might have preferred to see more of those plot pieces involved in the new chapters. But then again, Episode VII was just the bridge to a new chapter in the universe, perhaps Disney still wants to see that kind of story line.

There's plenty of room, with Leia as a General/Commander and the Rebel headquarters seemingly well developed, much like a small rebel government trying to exist within the larger empire. They still have their fleet and fighters, and they seem to be in better standing after the empire mostly collapsed and left a void.

This movie may have been more about fan service, intent on just teasing the new plots; perhaps they didn't want to hammer those home just yet, not on the opener to a new chapter in a very large franchise after so many years. If so, I think they handled it exceptionally well.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,751
4,558
136
Lucas did a ton to detail the politics and finances in star wars though. In Clone Wars for instance Chancellor Palpatine deregulates the banks, hedging his bets and counting on their greed to destabilize the system and setting the banking clans up for failure so he can make an effective power grab of the banking industry when it collapses. For all the scorn directed at Georgy he actually really nailed it in the narrative, telling the story of corruption from within and good people inadvertently becoming complicit in the death of their own democracy over promises of security.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Lucas did a ton to detail the politics and finances in star wars though. In Clone Wars for instance Chancellor Palpatine deregulates the banks, hedging his bets and counting on their greed to destabilize the system and setting the banking clans up for failure so he can make an effective power grab of the banking industry when it collapses. For all the scorn directed at Georgy he actually really nailed it in the narrative, telling the story of corruption from within and good people inadvertently becoming complicit in the death of their own democracy over promises of security.

Not in the main story though, and frankly, that's all that matters to most of us. I have never read or watched anything "canon" outside of the main movies, as has a vast majority of those who enjoyed any of the movies.

And, honestly, exactly how much control did ol' George have over all the canonized stories?

And if they were approved by him, did he actually suggest them in the first place? Or did someone put it before him, and he went, "by golly, that's a terrific idea! Do it!" If it's anything like the latter, then it just further proves my point that it wasn't in his original intentions.

If it can be incorporated in the main storyline, that's brilliant, and I hope I'd see that from Disney in some shape or form. But in a lot of ways, it's pointless if it doesn't hit live action of some form, because that's where Star Wars truly lives. Perhaps it was in previous canon, but frankly, I doubt Lucas had much to do with any of it. Even if he approved it in some fashion, at that point it's just other writers doing the better work that he couldn't in the first place. Which also further proves the point that it's terrific that Lucas is no longer in control of the story.

Regardless of how the old canon came about, perhaps Disney will take those ideas, develop their own now officially-official canon ("all prior canon = dead to me," said Disney), and put it to use... if not in the main "Episode" chapters, than perhaps in other anthology movies. I get that there's only so much one can put into 2 or 3 hour movies, so with everything else, the political backstory may not get the attention it deserves in the main movies.
 
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