Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Nothing I guess. In fact I think he's emotionally unstable the way Anakin should have been.

I just hate people and their use of "emo" - as if showing emotions is the worst thing in the world. I also love how people rip on Adam Driver being ugly etc. Last I checked, A LOT of ladies love him.

That being said I do think they unmasked him too early. He should have only taken the mask off with Han on the bridge. Unless there is some immediate connection between him and Rey that he is aware of and then him removing it at that point would make sense.

I will say that Han should have pleaded with him to remove the mask -- that he wanted to see his son's eyes (echoing Darth saying he wanted to look upon Luke with his own eyes). Then once the mask was removed, have Ren weepy eyed, and juuuuust when you THINK he is about to turn toward the light have Han slip up, say something "wrong" in that classic Han Solo way then -- BLAMMO -- Ren turns full Darkside.

It's a good alternate, but I see where the mask needed to come off when he confronts Rey and tries to probe her mind.

Pragmatically, much of the acting is done by expression rather than dialog, and having a mask on wrecks that.

Story wise, dropping the mask humanizes him which makes him less imposing and a vulnerable figure. It's Ren the human who shows fear of Rey's powers. It's also Ren the human who fights with Finn and Rey and is wounded and not victorious. It's Ren the human that confronts and murders his father.

But Ren with the mask is a demon, a chilling monster with supernatural powers. That's the figure he wants to fully be, but isn't yet, but will likely grow into in ep 8. The masked figure is not human, not emotional, and not vulnerable.

From Snokes and Ren's view, Vader's moment of sentiment was a weakness that destroyed him (and where we finally saw Vader unmasked.) Ren's ethos is to purge himself of all sentiment, and thus become all powerful.


As an aside, imo that's why the Vader scene at the end of ep3 is so awkward. We finally see Anakin transformed into Vader, and the first words are him crying and blubbering about Padamame. Not cool.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
yep. It is easily the worst of all of them. The kid gets a pass in my mind because, well, he's a fucking kid. It's not Jake Lloyd that was the problem--I honestly think he did great playing a little kid--it was the role that was the problem. AoTC was the worst piece of shit since the Matrix 2. I'm not really sure which is worse--probably AoTC because you have to figure it should be really fucking hard to fuck up Star Wars, but then AoTC.

and the Jedi specialized editions v 2 and 3...holy crap it was prequeled. What a shame because it was one of the best before that. And I'm going to ask why people hate the ewoks so much--I get that you don't want anything cute in your Star Wars to sell toys--fair--but I think you're ignoring how badass the ewoks were: primitive stone-age tribe vs the high technology of the occupying empire. And they weren't cute and nice. Don't you remember how they were about to eat goddamn Luke and Han and Chewie and serve their flesh to their new slave mother princess Leia? They decapitate their slain enemies and turn their heads into musical instruments! Those fuckers were hardcore. They are the Taliban!

The Gungans were a disgraceful bastardization of the proud ewoks.

Agree with all of that.

Ewoks too. I still like the ewoks. Barbarian teddy bears who were ready to grill your ass alive.
No mercy kill, they will dance to the music of your screams while you slowly burn to death, then feed your smoking balls to your sister.

Cold ass muthafkas. Made Jabba look like a p*ssy.

Who made a rule all the aliens had to be fat grotesque slobs? Being cute just made them more sinister.

Edit:
Not only did they use stormtrooper heads for drums, you know they ate all the bodies. In fact, that's prolly why they agreed to help in the first place.



"Goldenrod says if we free these two, him and his powerful friends will help us kill 100!"




"Looks like we're eating good tonight boys!"
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Mostly agree with what your saying, but wasn't he masked at least one (both?) of his smash everything with my lightsaber outbursts?

Quite right, but I think what we are seeing is Rey as still underdeveloped and wild. He had his tantrum in private, but his public persona is a chilling calmness.

Vader's voice was always tinged with anger and annoyance, but Rens is flat and deeply menacing.


Better word though is sentimental (ie connected/kindness/love/mercy) not emotional.

Dark side is fueled by dark emotions (anger/hatred/blah blah)
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Well, that's the point. He's NOT that far down the path of corruption. He idolizes Vader and wants to be like him, but he can't bring himself to do the same types of horrible things. He has a conscience. He doesn't want to kill Han, and the whole conversation with him has double meaning. He actively hopes that Snoke can't detect the light still in him.



There was a reason, it just wasn't physical. Like many people, children and adults, he idolized someone and used his clothing to express that idolatry. Think of it as the Star Wars version of an adult wearing a Packers jersey or cheesehead hat.
Except ADULTS are supposed to be at least a little more self-conscious about how other people will interpret their infatuation and that usually keeps them from taking it that far. He throws stupid little tantrums but he's not a child.
 

Sephire

Golden Member
Feb 9, 2011
1,689
3
76
Online stores just got the "Rey with the Bespin Lightsaber and BB-8" Elite series in stock. Bought 3 for belated Xmas gifts for family

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Edit:
Not only did they use stormtrooper heads for drums, you know they ate all the bodies. In fact, that's prolly why they agreed to help in the first place.



"Goldenrod says if we free these two, him and his powerful friends will help us kill 100!"

I never realized that: The Ewoks were in it for the fleshmeat!
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
Well, that's the point. He's NOT that far down the path of corruption. He idolizes Vader and wants to be like him, but he can't bring himself to do the same types of horrible things. He has a conscience. He doesn't want to kill Han, and the whole conversation with him has double meaning. He actively hopes that Snoke can't detect the light still in him.



There was a reason, it just wasn't physical. Like many people, children and adults, he idolized someone and used his clothing to express that idolatry. Think of it as the Star Wars version of an adult wearing a Packers jersey or cheesehead hat.

I guess that makes sense
 

lk2500

Member
Oct 12, 2011
167
2
81
Online stores just got the "Rey with the Bespin Lightsaber and BB-8" Elite series in stock. Bought 3 for belated Xmas gifts for family


Where did you see it in stock?

Also, did the movie actually show where Han got pierced with the lightsaber? Was it through the middle of his torso or are we just assuming that? He didn't break into pieces as he fell. Could have been a flesh wound?
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
I never realized that: The Ewoks were in it for the fleshmeat!

Ha hahah! We're we really supposed to believe ewoks cared about the galactic Senate?


...Come and see the violence inherent in the system. We're here to help! You're being repressed! You're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...


We didn't vote for an emperor. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week, but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...


Did I mention clones taste like chicken?

 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Where did you see it in stock?

Also, did the movie actually show where Han got pierced with the lightsaber? Was it through the middle of his torso or are we just assuming that? He didn't break into pieces as he fell. Could have been a flesh wound?

I thought we saw it go through his torso, out the other side. I might be remembering that wrong.

Not a death sentence. However, the mentions of him reprising his role in VIII is not a guarantee he truly returns. Could be a way to prevent spoilers for now, and it could also be returning in flashbacks. After all, Obi Wan reprised his role later in the series yet was dead. I don't think Han will come back via Force Ghost, but flashbacks are quite possible. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see. Which is annoying - I want it now dammit!

At least Rogue One will tide me over next year.

And damn, I remember Rogue One being about the Rebels who brought down the Death Star, but argh, I began briefly anticipating Poe's backstory getting fleshed out in that movie. But he'd be, at best, but a pup at that time. So we have to wait for VIII to see any more of his backstory getting fleshed out. Poe seems so awesome and yet, he's a hot shot pilot (holy shit balls is he an awesome pilot!) that we just have to accept as just that, a hot shot pilot.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
I thought we saw it go through his torso, out the other side. I might be remembering that wrong.

Not a death sentence. However, the mentions of him reprising his role in VIII is not a guarantee he truly returns. Could be a way to prevent spoilers for now, and it could also be returning in flashbacks. After all, Obi Wan reprised his role later in the series yet was dead. I don't think Han will come back via Force Ghost, but flashbacks are quite possible. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see. Which is annoying - I want it now dammit!

At least Rogue One will tide me over next year.

And damn, I remember Rogue One being about the Rebels who brought down the Death Star, but argh, I began briefly anticipating Poe's backstory getting fleshed out in that movie. But he'd be, at best, but a pup at that time. So we have to wait for VIII to see any more of his backstory getting fleshed out. Poe seems so awesome and yet, he's a hot shot pilot (holy shit balls is he an awesome pilot!) that we just have to accept as just that, a hot shot pilot.

Han might be flashbacks, but that is it. He's no Jedi, so if the lightsaber through his fleshy torso didn't kill him for some absurd reason, then the fall into the bottomless chasm very likely did. Right, people?

Also, don't forget that Harrison Ford always had a long-standing "I will not do this movie unless you kill Han Solo!" demand on any inclusion of his character in a potential sequel. Hell, he even argued strongly for that in Jedi and was rather disappointed that it didn't happen. Most of you probably recall that Lando was supposed to die in the Death Star explosion (along with the Falcon and poor-old Nien Numb), but the suits didn't like the sad and wanted him to live.

The scene where Lando walks off to the Falcon and is immediately shrouded in darkness, and is still in the final cut, was to foreshadow his death.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Also, am I the only one that doesn't like Poe...at all? He was so 2-dimensional and completely boring in this flick. He has no personality. Not yet, anyway.

Probably the worst I've ever seen Oscar Isaac and it seems to me he just phoned it in with this underwritten stand-in of a character.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
I guess that makes sense

Not really. It'd be like if Barrack Obama wore a Jimmy Carter mask everywhere he went just because he respects Carter. It's just not becoming of a leader... or an adult in most professional situations. It's why you can't wear your favorite sports jersey to work until Friday and, even then, no one will take you seriously if you come in with face paint and a giant foam finger while going about your business.

Within the context of the films, Kylo Ren wearing the mask is just weird. The truth is that the filmmakers just want to evoke Vader for the fans while they blatantly remake A New Hope. I was hoping for a better explanation that remains within the context of the films, but that's all there is left.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,752
1,285
126
Also, am I the only one that doesn't like Poe...at all? He was so 2-dimensional and completely boring in this flick. He has no personality. Not yet, anyway.

Probably the worst I've ever seen Oscar Isaac and it seems to me he just phoned it in with this underwritten stand-in of a character.
Well, the character as written was superfluous. That couldn't have helped.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Not really. It'd be like if Barrack Obama wore a Jimmy Carter mask everywhere he went just because he respects Carter. It's just not becoming of a leader... or an adult in most professional situations. It's why you can't wear your favorite sports jersey to work until Friday and, even then, no one will take you seriously if you come in with face paint and a giant foam finger while going about your business.

Within the context of the films, Kylo Ren wearing the mask is just weird. The truth is that the filmmakers just want to evoke Vader for the fans while they blatantly remake A New Hope. I was hoping for a better explanation that remains within the context of the films, but that's all there is left.
Unfortunately, like so many other things in this film, it's either poorly explained, needing the next movie, or you need to read the books or magazines to understand anything. This movie was very poorly written.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
Also, am I the only one that doesn't like Poe...at all? He was so 2-dimensional and completely boring in this flick. He has no personality. Not yet, anyway.

Probably the worst I've ever seen Oscar Isaac and it seems to me he just phoned it in with this underwritten stand-in of a character.

The whole opening scene was just a tease. Starts off with the Brewmeister and Poe with that funny exchange, then Ren catches the blaster shot, and you never see Brewmeister again and Poe only shows up for like 2 min total in the rest of the movie. Then you read up on the characters online and Brewmeister was apparently like the Indiana Jones of the SW universe, but you'd never know it from the movie. Anyways, Poe was really a throwaway character. They could have removed that character and it wouldnt have really mattered. Finn could have easily escaped on his own when he decided storm trooper life wasnt for him.

They'll probably use Poe more in the sequels, but 75% of TFA is like that.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Poe seems so awesome and yet, he's a hot shot pilot (holy shit balls is he an awesome pilot!) that we just have to accept as just that, a hot shot pilot.

That was one thing that came across as rather awkward writing to me in the movie. During Poe's interrogation, you hear, "I didn't know we had the best pilot in the resistance on board." This is 100% exposition to tell the viewers that he's an awesome pilot. Then, later on, you get the CGI battle where Finn makes says, "Woo! That's one awesome pilot!" This is the second time they make sure to tell the viewer that he's an awesome pilot. At least we got to see something that time, but Finn's remark still came across as really awkward.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
The whole opening scene was just a tease. Starts off with the Brewmeister and Poe with that funny exchange, then Ren catches the blaster shot, and you never see Brewmeister again and Poe only shows up for like 2 min total in the rest of the movie. Then you read up on the characters online and Brewmeister was apparently like the Indiana Jones of the SW universe, but you'd never know it from the movie. Anyways, Poe was really a throwaway character. They could have removed that character and it wouldnt have really mattered. Finn could have easily escaped on his own when he decided storm trooper life wasnt for him.

They'll probably use Poe more in the sequels, but 75% of TFA is like that.

Poe was originally supposed to die in the movie, J.J. had told Oscar Isaac that much at the beginning. And then J.J. decided that Poe should live on, and will likely become a prominent character in the sequels.


Also, am I the only one that doesn't like Poe...at all? He was so 2-dimensional and completely boring in this flick. He has no personality. Not yet, anyway.

Probably the worst I've ever seen Oscar Isaac and it seems to me he just phoned it in with this underwritten stand-in of a character.

I didn't think he was that one dimensional. Frankly, I thought he and Finn had a good on-screen chemistry and you could sense a kind of charismatic quality in Poe, but of course his screen time was so minimal that Isaac couldn't really imbue the character with a ton of energy. I think he'll be a fine character and a great actor for the part as they take the story further.

Unfortunately, like so many other things in this film, it's either poorly explained, needing the next movie, or you need to read the books or magazines to understand anything. This movie was very poorly written.

I don't think they are intending for it to be a requirement to read other material just to get the backstory. They were very vague with TFA, throwing a lot at us with little background to explain why... but I reckon it is getting set up so that the backstory will get filled in with the sequels and potentially a little in the anthology movies.

But as with any massive saga, only so much information is actually put into the movies. The original movies had the benefit of being the creator of the story, and really, characterizations within novels came later to provide story that didn't exist in the first place.

Now, they are creating new books right away with the new sequel trilogy, mostly erasing the previous canon but adopting some of it and starting a whole new post-Lucas canon. So I think it is fair to expect some additional details, perhaps entire backstories, to be only skimmed in the movies but find themselves painstakingly detailed in the books. What else are books for if not additional character story?

So, do we want to have to read a book to get the backstory on some new characters? Not really, but it's that or no book and still have new characters with hardly any background on them. In a big universe like SW, you just cannot possible contain everything that you need to know in the movies alone. Of course, you don't NEED to know that information, it's a treat, a bonus on the side if you wish to explore the story further. But the movies will stand alone, though some characters will likely be a little thin. As if that didn't occur in any of the previous SW movies.

In other words, don't worry - this is the first movie with new characters. They will be fleshed out in time.

I doubt Ren is going to be the big baddy in the films, he'll evolve and things might make more sense, but really, what you have right now is an emotionally immature adult who aspires to be what his grandpa was. And with that, said grandpa was really the first to utilize a mask/helmet. Ren doesn't need that mask, but he wants it, wants to try and live up to what Vader was in his mind. He wants to emulate him, so with that comes the mask. But it seems he still wants to have the emotional connection of having face to face interactions with foes, it has more weight. So he's trying to kind of have both worlds - we'll see how that turns out, but I don't get the hate - it fits the character IMHO. I thought it all made sense. Maybe it was created solely to further connect this movie to A New Hope, but even so, I think the characterization fits perfectly.

If Anakin had a prior mentor or family member wear a mask like that, he probably would have chose to wear one too once he fully embraced the dark side. It just so happens that that full embrace came at the same time as the need for the mask. It's the emotional immaturity and lust for power and meaning, and to create an image for foes to fear. For Vader it just came with the territory but he also fully embraced it, just as others may want to embrace it without having a real need.
 

lk2500

Member
Oct 12, 2011
167
2
81
Han might be flashbacks, but that is it. He's no Jedi, so if the lightsaber through his fleshy torso didn't kill him for some absurd reason, then the fall into the bottomless chasm very likely did. Right, people?

Also, don't forget that Harrison Ford always had a long-standing "I will not do this movie unless you kill Han Solo!" demand on any inclusion of his character in a potential sequel. Hell, he even argued strongly for that in Jedi and was rather disappointed that it didn't happen. Most of you probably recall that Lando was supposed to die in the Death Star explosion (along with the Falcon and poor-old Nien Numb), but the suits didn't like the sad and wanted him to live.

The scene where Lando walks off to the Falcon and is immediately shrouded in darkness, and is still in the final cut, was to foreshadow his death.

Yeah, I assumed the saber was through the middle of his abdomen but, since I wasn't looking directly for the entry point I can't say for sure. If somebody remembers to look for that and is seeing the movie again (or can remember for sure) let us know. And since it doesn't show him landing we have no clue where he ends up. Maybe down a garbage chute to a trash compactor and Captain Phasma ends up rescuing him?

Kind of like at the end of the movie C3PO supposedly has a gold arm (not red) while he's waving at the Falcon. I even read about it prior to seeing the movie my 2nd time and still forgot to look, I was looking directly at BB-8 instead.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
I doubt Ren is going to be the big baddy in the films, he'll evolve and things might make more sense, but really, what you have right now is an emotionally immature adult who aspires to be what his grandpa was. And with that, said grandpa was really the first to utilize a mask/helmet. Ren doesn't need that mask, but he wants it, wants to try and live up to what Vader was in his mind. He wants to emulate him, so with that comes the mask. But it seems he still wants to have the emotional connection of having face to face interactions with foes, it has more weight. So he's trying to kind of have both worlds - we'll see how that turns out, but I don't get the hate - it fits the character IMHO. I thought it all made sense. Maybe it was created solely to further connect this movie to A New Hope, but even so, I think the characterization fits perfectly.



If Anakin had a prior mentor or family member wear a mask like that, he probably would have chose to wear one too once he fully embraced the dark side. It just so happens that that full embrace came at the same time as the need for the mask. It's the emotional immaturity and lust for power and meaning, and to create an image for foes to fear. For Vader it just came with the territory but he also fully embraced it, just as others may want to embrace it without having a real need.
If you want to be like your hero so much that you dress up like him/her while struggling in a competitive environment then you are either 7 years old or you lose your professional credibility.
#ObamaInCarterWhiteface

Remember: he wasn't the only one Snoke was talking to. There were others in The First Order he couldn't command. He even had an argument with one. You know how every disagreement would have ended if this were for real: "Oh yeah? Well, why should we listen to some guy who dresses up in a wanna-be Vader costume every day? What's that? Oh. I don't care if he's your grandpa. Grow up."

Vader mask was clearly a functional piece of necessary equipment for his condition. Other Sith didn't wear masks.
 
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Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
If you want to be like your hero so much that you dress up like him/her while struggling in a competitive environment then you are either 7 years old or you lose your professional credibility.
#ObamaInCarterWhiteface

Remember: he wasn't the only one Snoke was talking to. There were others in The First Order he couldn't command. He even had an argument with one. You know how every disagreement would have ended if this were for real: "Oh yeah? Well, why should we listen to some guy who dresses up in a wanna-be Vader costume every day? What's that? Oh. I don't care if he's your grandpa. Grow up."

Vader mask was clearly a functional piece of necessary equipment for his condition. Other Sith didn't wear masks.

Someone argues with Vader and he'd force choke them. Heck, something happens Vader doesnt like thats out of your control and he'll force choke you. The only person Vader seemed to respect other than the Emperor was Grand Moff Tarkin. I've been watching Clone Wars and they have a history of respect, so its understandable. It does make one question why that officer thought he could talk shit to Vader in A New Hope...that was dumb. lol

To be fair, wearing helmets and masks seems to be somewhat normal in the SW universe, especially for guys who fight a lot. Granted, Ren probably just wanted to look cool and do an homage to Vader, but I dont think other SW characters would think he was a weenie for wearing a mask and helmet.
 
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