Star Wars: The Force Awakens reviews *SPOILERS*

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Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81

Maz as a she-yoda kinda makes sense, I never recognized the similarities. But I hated the character. First, cgi with all of the cartoonish motions and gestures that come along with that. Second, her interaction with Rey could have been so much grander, so much more introspective, or awe inspiring, basically it could have been written so much better. They missed out on a great reveal opportunity. She is basically the Oracle from the Matrix, only not done nearly as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgazvVNknA

What a great scene.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,824
21,608
146
I think... maybe... this is the point? If so, it's beyond stupid.

Came here to post



And I agree; talk about grasping at straws for a joke.

I think one of our members called it though. He said the nerds could not, and would not, be happy with the movie, he was right. Enumerate your displeasure on the internets, you Comic book Guy nerd ragers.

I liked it; it felt like star wars meets Raiders.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
I think one of our members called it though. He said the nerds could not, and would not, be happy with the movie, he was right. Enumerate your displeasure on the internets, you Comic book Guy nerd ragers.

I liked it; it felt like star wars meets Raiders.

You could see this coming a mile away though -- the super-nerds were always going to rip this apart. If the internet was around in the 70s/80s they would have done the same with the OT.

The movie was exactly what I was hoping/expecting it would be -- a fun, exciting action movie set in the Star Wars universe. It COMPLETELY brought back "Star Wars" to Star Wars. If you have issues with that, YOU are the one that is not a fan of the franchise.

Hell I say this as a bitter old man too!
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Meh. You guys have film buffs who are more discriminating confused with unsatisfied super nerds. Our primary complaints that defenders of the film object to are no different than the kind of complaints we'd have for any other movie or series. It isn't perfect. It isn't even great. I can see some calling it good, but for most it's "acceptable," which is how I see it.

As a Star Wars film it's not particularly good, but acceptable with many flaws it didn't need to have (sloppy).
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
You could see this coming a mile away though -- the super-nerds were always going to rip this apart. If the internet was around in the 70s/80s they would have done the same with the OT.

The movie was exactly what I was hoping/expecting it would be -- a fun, exciting action movie set in the Star Wars universe. It COMPLETELY brought back "Star Wars" to Star Wars. If you have issues with that, YOU are the one that is not a fan of the franchise.

Hell I say this as a bitter old man too!

truth, all of it

except I'm not old enough to be this bitter =/
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Meh. You guys have film buffs who are more discriminating confused with unsatisfied super nerds. Our primary complaints that defenders of the film object to are no different than the kind of complaints we'd have for any other movie or series. It isn't perfect. It isn't even great. I can see some calling it good, but for most it's "acceptable," which is how I see it.

As a Star Wars film it's not particularly good, but acceptable with many flaws it didn't need to have (sloppy).

Not to mention all the god damn masks and cloaks!!
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
People were complaining about masks and cloaks? Definitely nerd rage.

I was pointing out something that didn't make sense in context... the same kind of things I would point out in ANY movie that made silly assumptions like that. Also, I never said anything about cloaks.

The super nerds are the ones who accept that stuff just because they think Vader's mask was cool and they want Kylo Ren to have a cool mask too.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Meh. You guys have film buffs who are more discriminating confused with unsatisfied super nerds. Our primary complaints that defenders of the film object to are no different than the kind of complaints we'd have for any other movie or series. It isn't perfect. It isn't even great. I can see some calling it good, but for most it's "acceptable," which is how I see it.

As a Star Wars film it's not particularly good, but acceptable with many flaws it didn't need to have (sloppy).

You are seriously glossing over the flaws of the original trilogy. They were plenty. But we get blurry-eyed thinking back to the good ol' nostalgia. We can even watch the originals today and ignore the flaws even now, because to acknowledge them is to cast doubt on the virgin quality that is the original trilogy.

The story of the entire franchise is far from unique. But it came together in an enjoyable package, and this latest film continues exactly what the original trilogy started. Is it entirely original and flawless? No. Are the originals? No, not even remotely.

People are getting to hung up on the beauty of nostalgia and enjoyed the originals too much to acknowledge the flaws at the time. But now there are new movies, there is an impossibly high bar to overcome, and everything here on out will always pale in comparison to the perfect image we hold in our heads of what used to be.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
You are seriously glossing over the flaws of the original trilogy. They were plenty. But we get blurry-eyed thinking back to the good ol' nostalgia. We can even watch the originals today and ignore the flaws even now, because to acknowledge them is to cast doubt on the virgin quality that is the original trilogy.

The story of the entire franchise is far from unique. But it came together in an enjoyable package, and this latest film continues exactly what the original trilogy started. Is it entirely original and flawless? No. Are the originals? No, not even remotely.

People are getting to hung up on the beauty of nostalgia and enjoyed the originals too much to acknowledge the flaws at the time. But now there are new movies, there is an impossibly high bar to overcome, and everything here on out will always pale in comparison to the perfect image we hold in our heads of what used to be.

But that's just it, though. Without the "Star Wars" name attached, TFA was a mediocre movie that just plain wouldn't have made sense because the writers didn't pay enough attention to back story.

ANH, on the other hand, had just enough back story and plot to make it a generally entertaining movie that you weren't lost at the end of.

I saw TFA twice and fell asleep the second time. Sure, it looked great...scenery was great. It tickled my nostalgia berries. But as a movie by itself, it just wasn't good. The only reason I want to see Episode 8 at this point is to see more Rey. They didn't do nearly enough to set up any sort of empathy or interest toward "the new resistance, same as the old resistance, same as the old old resistance" or garner any hatred toward "the new empire same as the old empire same as the old old empire." In fact, they killed off the most intriguing characters...the dude at the beginning that had the map and Han Solo. Black Storm Trooper just doesn't fit in. Maz could be interesting, but meh...they spent like 3 minutes of screen time with her. Ren is completely uninteresting as a villain...he's neither tragic nor evil...he's a whiny piss-ant whom I just couldn't care less about whether he lives or dies.
 
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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
But that's just it, though. Without the "Star Wars" name attached, TFA was a mediocre movie that just plain wouldn't have made sense because the writers didn't pay enough attention to back story.

Are you saying the first of a trilogy, which is the 7th in a series wouldn't make sense w/o knowing about the first 6?

Huh, imagine that.

Take LotR out of the title and Two Towers wouldn't make sense either.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Are you saying the first of a trilogy, which is the 7th in a series wouldn't make sense w/o knowing about the first 6?

Huh, imagine that.

Take LotR out of the title and Two Towers wouldn't make sense either.

Sure it does, because there's enough backstory baked in to the movie and all of the plot points in Two Towers are mostly self-contained.

Same thing with A New Hope. That's number 4 in a series, and it makes perfect sense.

Also, the first of a trilogy abso-fucking-lutely better make sense without any outside backstory. If it doesn't, the writers have fucking failed.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Are you saying the first of a trilogy, which is the 7th in a series wouldn't make sense w/o knowing about the first 6?

Huh, imagine that.

Take LotR out of the title and Two Towers wouldn't make sense either.

No, the problem with TFA is that it NEEDS it's next two movies for this movie to be coherent. There's a reason why there's so many websites, articles, etc trying to explain this movie/make sense of it because this movie CANNOT stand on its own which is horrible for any movie. There's so much that's not explained or just flat out horribly explained and makes no sense that without the next two movies or the books/comics, you'd never get it. That means that it was poorly written.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
You could see this coming a mile away though -- the super-nerds were always going to rip this apart. If the internet was around in the 70s/80s they would have done the same with the OT.

The movie was exactly what I was hoping/expecting it would be -- a fun, exciting action movie set in the Star Wars universe. It COMPLETELY brought back "Star Wars" to Star Wars. If you have issues with that, YOU are the one that is not a fan of the franchise.

Hell I say this as a bitter old man too!

I don't feel calling the story a rehash of the original is an unfair comparison though. George had a different story in mind and his story arcs were always exceptional. (it was everywhere else he always fell apart) It feels like the next step in the story should have been to show the Republic growing beyond a strictly military force, struggling to adapt to having to actually make a government that works. The Imperial remnants are fewer in the numbers but are they themselves falling back onto the hit and run attacks that Rebels always used to harrass them with. The line between freedom fighter and terrorist would become blurred. It just seems like so much potential pissed away, just to show horn in the idea that the good guys are still the "little guy" when if anything they were now the major power in the galaxy.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Sure it does, because there's enough backstory baked in to the movie and all of the plot points in Two Towers are mostly self-contained.

Same thing with A New Hope. That's number 4 in a series, and it makes perfect sense.

Also, the first of a trilogy abso-fucking-lutely better make sense without any outside backstory. If it doesn't, the writers have fucking failed.

Here's the thing: A New Hope was the first of the entire series. It was written to be stand alone in the event it wasn't successful, but Lucas had intentions of creating more stories.

When you aren't sure of how far you can take your story, you make sure it is mostly contained so that at least is still feels like a coherent and whole story.

Every other movie in the series would feel flat without the Star Wars history already set up.

Yes, this is the fist movie of a new trilogy. But it is not the first movie in the series. So I think exceptions to that expectation are in order because it's entirely known that more movies are in the pipeline.

Granted, I do agree that they could have invested more time toward backstory, but I can also appreciate how they just started at the middle and will let the backstory fill naturally. It was fully understood more movies will follow, guaranteed, so they have the opportunity to start strong without exposition and let that fill in later.

They had more support for Maz filmed but cut it out from the theatrical release. That was beyond stupid IMHO. I guess a lot of what was cut probably actually made it more interesting, but perhaps they were afraid of pushing a SW movie to the 3 hour length. And I think they wanted to save some reveals for VIII.

So yes, I wholly agree it could have been a better movie, but I feel it is excessive to complain about some things when this is a movie starting a new trilogy that is guaranteed to be filmed (guaranteed, yes) in an existing movie universe 6 chapters deep already.

A lot of movie trilogies, the first movie is actually a little more succinct because they are often testing the waters. If it is based on a book, the book itself was a test, and when it was successful the author was encouraged. Same for movies, when the studios come back with the green light.

So to be fair, we have this expectation baked into our heads, because we have seen this repeated often. But it is not for the goal of story telling that it is like that, rather, because of uncertainty. When it is an absolute certainty that Episodes VIII and IX will be filmed, I think you are afforded to luxury to actually officially launch that trilogy with full intent to keep some things unexplained for future scenes. Think of it as not 3 movies but as one big story. Any good story does not start off heavy with exposition, the general rule of thumb is for the author to start somewhere near the middle and let the backstory fill in naturally over time. They are at the 1/3 mark of the new story, I think it's fair to give it a chance. So it made the first entry a little weaker as a stand alone film, but I think as part of the greater whole it will be appreciated at the end, and I am excited to see where they take it.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
No, the problem with TFA is that it NEEDS it's next two movies for this movie to be coherent. There's a reason why there's so many websites, articles, etc trying to explain this movie/make sense of it because this movie CANNOT stand on its own which is horrible for any movie. There's so much that's not explained or just flat out horribly explained and makes no sense that without the next two movies or the books/comics, you'd never get it. That means that it was poorly written.

Is that so bad, truly?

See my post above. We have this unnatural expectation for a trilogy starter to be fully coherent, but that has only happened for the most part because of uncertainty of further chances to expand upon the story. But we don't have this same expectation for the second movie in trilogies, and what is that? Because the second movie NEEDS the first and third movie to feel like a full story. Let's not forget that.

The first movie, yes, a little weak on a solid fully-contained plot, but it still had it. The search for Luke, and new character(s) discovering something else in them as they stumble upon this opportunity for adventure and hesitantly follow along. In that, it was a fully-contained story in the greater story they are telling. Well written for any story truly made to exist as a part of a greater whole and not stand alone. They have the opportunity to do so because it is guaranteed to continue, so why not write it so? The second movie is always written in such a manner, why must the first be expected to do otherwise? This is the first third of a long story, it should have some self-contained climax, but it is a much smaller climax than the greater story being told. Think of it as the first two and a half hours of a nearly nine hour movie.
 
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