Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[zinfamous]

Who else thinks that Kylo's lightsaber should have a toggle to make part of the hilt shoot out into a full length lightsaber. So many times they locked swords he could have just pierced them with it! It makes no sense for him to have the first lightsaber with a hilt and not have it be actually functional in combat.

I think the reason that his lightsaber has "a hilt" is because he is actually kinda shitty at making light sabers. I think it's a flaw, not intentional. In "the lore" anyway, your skills are complete when you can make a flawless, perfect beam. He either never really completed this part of his training, or he's just too emotional to do it right. You notice that his beam is "sparky," it has jitters like he's sitting behind some peasant non-adaptive sync display while all the other superior jedis and their lightsabers are rocking adaptive sync. I think what happened is that the power profile in his crystals is unbalanced because he can't align them properly, so the "hilt" is actually a ventilation system--he needs to exhaust the plasma at the crystal alignment so that the business end of the saber can be somewhat stable as a beam. Otherwise, it would just blast out the front like any normal un-contained plasma would. (He's "duct-taping" what is probably the most common problem with building these things--the alignment--rather than understanding and fixing the problem)

I recall this analysis with TFA and I think it's quite apt--his unstable lightsaber is a metaphor for his nature, in general, and also directly shows that his training really isn't complete. Yes, it looks cool and it's easy to look at as what some kid that thinks he's a terrifying badass would do, but I think it works much better to see this as an actual failure in skills.

I mean, it does work for him in the end and it does look badass, so it's kind of a dumb luck thing, but I think there is a reason behind the lightsaber and it's not that he wanted it to look that way.

 

[momeNt]

I think the reason that his lightsaber has "a hilt" is because he is actually kinda shitty at making light sabers. I think it's a flaw, not intentional. In "the lore" anyway, your skills are complete when you can make a flawless, perfect beam. He either never really completed this part of his training, or he's just too emotional to do it right. You notice that his beam is "sparky," it has jitters like he's sitting behind some peasant non-adaptive sync display while all the other superior jedis and their lightsabers are rocking adaptive sync. I think what happened is that the power profile in his crystals is unbalanced because he can't align them properly, so the hilt is actually a ventilation system--he needs to exhaust the plasma at the alignment so that the business end of the saber can be somewhat stable as a beam. Otherwise, it would just blast out the front like any normal un-contained plasma would.

I recall this analysis with TFA and I think it's quite apt--his unstable lightsaber is a metaphor for his nature, in general, and also directly shows that his training really isn't complete. Yes, it looks cool and it's easy to look at as what some kid that thinks he's a terrifying badass would do, but I think it works much better to see this as an actual failure in skills.

Oh interesting. That makes sense.

 

[zinfamous]

In case you missed it here
There's no need for him to complain about it when a cheeky youtuber has already done so
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QJRw56cOVw&t=25m35s
Yes it does break things. Now maybe some people are willing to let Rian "I DON'T REALLY G.A.F.F.A. SW" Johnson get away with a ginormous Death Planet sized plot hole in his movie... but apparently a lot of people aren't....

*e2a* oh yeah the video is NSFW

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Yeah, I do get it. Just devil's advocate.

For me, it would be far less annoying if this one didn't have so many other issues, chief among them Luke being a useless hermit (or at least wasting 30 minutes of nonsense screen time to not show how Luke got to where he is, some past badassery, a much better training sequence with Rey, etc). I actually like how Luke ended--I just don't like that it's the only thing we've seen of him since 1983. It is profoundly disappointing. I'm not happy with the idea that the only thing we know that Luke accomplished up until hermiting himself is that unlike his dad, he actually didn't murder a "youngling" (but only at the last minute).

I don't understand the purpose of the Finn character. It seems like he is just there to give Rey a reason to do things (and the other way around). I don't even think we are supposed to think they are attracted to each other? They are besties or something? Either way, that whole thing is entirely forced, unbelievable, and incredibly stupid. Then they introduce some throwaway character in this one to give Finn another "reason to do things," but then that's it.

So many problems, it makes it easy to pick apart everything. If Luke weren't ruined, and Finn (well, never existed), I could easily handwave away the lightspeed thing.

 

[BudAshes]

Sorry your ideas do not explain it away.

1. The admiral had no issues deducing the necessary range for the attack, and the ship was conveniently within the optimal range to do the attack. That just adds to it being a shitty idea made up by the writers.

2. If mass ratio was a big concern, it would actually be mentioned in the movie. It wasn't, because the director and writers didn't think that far. They weren't thinking at all actually, they just went with something that looks cool.

3. Lucky shots are what Star Wars is all about. Except instead of hoping for a lucky shot from a lone X wing, instead you just send 50 cheap ships lightspeeding into the Death Star.

4. There's no way that was the first time anyone ever thought about that. Even the First Order realized what was about to happen, so they knew what it was too. That's how the director portrayed it.

5. If a hyper drive on a rock is not economically feasible, then what is losing all of your bombers? Or many, many X-Wings?

Stop trying to defend a poorly written, poorly directed movie. TLJ was simply Rian Johnson saying F the previous movies, I'm gonna do whatever I want, and the next director can pick up the pieces.

The only chance these movies had of being any good would have been to have them written and filmed all at once like Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings. Instead they are just like the Avenger movies, basically just joyless attempts at instilling nostalgia in adults and then endless cgi action to keep adhd children from whining too much.

Anyone else find it interesting that every Disney movie no matter how bad seems to get a 90% + percent on Rotten Tomatoes?

 

[NoTine42]

Yeah, I do get it. Just devil's advocate.

For me, it would be far less annoying if this one didn't have so many other issues, chief among them Luke being a useless hermit (or at least wasting 30 minutes of nonsense screen time to not show how Luke got to where he is, some past badassery, a much better training sequence with Rey, etc). I actually like how Luke ended--I just don't like that it's the only thing we've seen of him since 1983. It is profoundly disappointing. I'm not happy with the idea that the only thing we know that Luke accomplished up until hermiting himself is that unlike his dad, he actually didn't murder a "youngling" (but only at the last minute).

I don't understand the purpose of the Finn character. It seems like he is just there to give Rey a reason to do things (and the other way around). I don't even think we are supposed to think they are attracted to each other? They are besties or something? Either way, that whole thing is entirely forced, unbelievable, and incredibly stupid. Then they introduce some throwaway character in this one to give Finn another "reason to do things," but then that's it.

So many problems, it makes it easy to pick apart everything. If Luke weren't ruined, and Finn (well, never existed), I could easily handwave away the lightspeed thing.

An interesting take in this twitter thread (Luke was useless because he cut himself from the force in an act of potential heroism to save the galaxy)

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950394363384807424

...

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950394957973487617

....

https://twitter.com/swankmotron/status/950398185192566784

 

[Oyeve]

The only chance these movies had of being any good would have been to have them written and filmed all at once like Peter Jackson did with Lord of the Rings. Instead they are just like the Avenger movies, basically just joyless attempts at instilling nostalgia in adults and then endless cgi action to keep adhd children from whining too much.

Anyone else find it interesting that every Disney movie no matter how bad seems to get a 90% + percent on Rotten Tomatoes?

Not this one. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1196003_princess_and_the_frog?

 

[zerocool84]

So I don't know man. I think Rey's storyline has lots more to offer in the next installment. I have a problem with where they took Luke, but I knew it was coming since i watched The Force Awakens. This story is going to hinge on what they end up doing with Kylo Ren's character. I really thought he progressed in this movie, and I can see the battle in him between light and dark. Chewie and Phasma were wasted. Chewie really should be utilized more, but Phasma was wasted in TFA too... Luke's conflict with Kylo was one of my favorite parts of the movie. The ambiguity of it leaves you understanding and sympathizing with both characters. It is most assuredly not a "He said, she said..." Mary Poppins was completely inexcusable and is the first Star Wars scene I've ever thought should be removed from a movie.

I guess I wasn't as thrilled with TFA as you were. I thought it was inexcusable that the First Order and Snoke appeared with zero explanation. I thought the "big picture" was terrible, and though the new characters were mildly interesting, none of them had the gravitas of the original cast. While fun to watch as an action flick, it really was a poor attempt at a Star Wars movie. Most of the Last Jedi's faults I attribute to choices made in The Force Awakens. I think it does quite well with the mess it was left.

The Last Jedi problems are NOT problems because of Force Awakens, they are problems of lazy storytelling. The first part in a three part story is the setup. The second part keeps you wanting to know what happens in part three and get some answers to some things but not everything to keep you excited for the next part. This did none of that. You are never supposed to explain everything in part one of a story. All of this would have been taken care of if Disney would have actually had someone write out an overall story BEFORE making these movies. They let Rian Johnson do whatever he wanted with the story and since he didn't like stuff and didn't want to spend time developing certain things, he just tossed them away for no reason. What are we left with in part 3? I see no big questions left to answer as the big questions left were made not important. And no, Kylo Ren is not a good enough bad guy to carry a movie himself. This is all Disney not caring about an overall consistent narrative and just dollar signs.

 

[Majes]

The Last Jedi problems are NOT problems because of Force Awakens, they are problems of lazy storytelling. The first part in a three part story is the setup. The second part keeps you wanting to know what happens in part three and get some answers to some things but not everything to keep you excited for the next part. This did none of that. You are never supposed to explain everything in part one of a story. All of this would have been taken care of if Disney would have actually had someone write out an overall story BEFORE making these movies. They let Rian Johnson do whatever he wanted with the story and since he didn't like stuff and didn't want to spend time developing certain things, he just tossed them away for no reason. What are we left with in part 3? I see no big questions left to answer as the big questions left were made not important. And no, Kylo Ren is not a good enough bad guy to carry a movie himself. This is all Disney not caring about an overall consistent narrative and just dollar signs.

So we both agree on the lazy storytelling and the lack of an overall plan. But you're placing more blame on TLJ wrapping up story lines while I place the blame on TFA for having a terrible plot and simplistic story lines. It's really not that big of a difference now that I think about it. TLJ could have made some different choices (and in my opinions fixed problems with TFA) but it didn't it just continues or ends the stories from its predecessor.

Now I do have questions left after watching TLJ, and I am interested to see what happens with Kylo Ren. I'm interested to see how they handle Leia, and I find Rey's story to still be super interesting. Were you more interested in the stories of the original cast? I can see your point of view if so... The original cast has been treated terribly by these two movies. The directors, both of them, seemed to choose the worst possible story for their lives to take since Return of the Jedi.

 

[rstrohkirch]

I have not read any of the posts in this thread. I've avoided all spoilers so far. I just happen to be looking at the IMDB profile for this movie, which lead to the director which lead me to asking a question here. It's more like a statement but...

How can a company put a director that has had 1 commercially successful direction(Looper) in charge of what is essentially a billion dollar movie. This movie cost more to make than all of the movies he's directed grossed in the the US market. I work in fast food/fast casual restaurants. So that would be like me spending 3mil to open a big box franchisee fast casual restaurant. Then turning around and placing a general manager in there who's only experience is successfully operating a small dinner.
Could that person be successful? Perhaps
Am I going to do it? No

On top of everything I wrote, he's writing the next 3 movies and set to direct the first of those. This guy must have gave one hell of an interview.

 

[snoopy7548]

I agree with zerocool. TLJ answered questions that weren't ready to be answered yet, and answered questions that weren't even asked. I feel like TLJ would actually probably make a good ending to the new trilogy (with some minor changes, of course) - the rebels get away, Luke vanishes, Rey excels at using the force and becomes a master, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Majes]

On top of everything I wrote, he's writing the next 3 movies and set to direct the first of those. This guy must have gave one hell of an interview.

Just to clarify, he is writing a new trilogy. He is not in charge of Episode 9 or the Solo film. But yes, three more movies. He did get some acclaim for a few Breaking Bad episodes, I know many people were pumped when he was announced.

 

[glenn1]

Just to clarify, he is writing a new trilogy. He is not in charge of Episode 9 or the Solo film. But yes, three more movies. He did get some acclaim for a few Breaking Bad episodes, I know many people were pumped when he was announced.

Personally I'm more looking forward to the release of Black Panther than I am Ep. 9. I'm kinda hoping that once 9 is out then the franchise can move and grow with movies that were at least logically consistent like Rogue 1. I'm thinking the "let the past die, kill it if you have to" refers as much to needing to release SW films in a trilogy format as anything.

Biggest problem with this movie is while Star Wars fans are willing to suspend belief to a large degree (a giant worm inside an asteroid anyone?) it's rendered laughably impossible when the movie includes such over-the-top ridiculous ways to resolve plot dilemmas caused by poor writing. I'm guessing the "Leia as Mary Poppins" scene will rival the "Indy Jone survives nuke blast in lead-lined fridge" in shorthand for ridiculous writing akin to how "Jumped the Shark" has become popularized.

 

[Majes]

I'm excited for Black Panther and Infinity War. I'm terrified of Solo but I will go see it, and I'll see Ep. 9 at least twice in theaters. But yeah, the Mary Poppins scene is bad... Really bad. I don't know how anyone at Disney thought "Yes! This is fantastic! Put this in the movie!". Watching it on the first night people laughed out loud at the absurdity of it... That's the first time I've ever heard a Star Wars movie treated like a joke in theater...

 

[BudAshes]

I'm excited for Black Panther and Infinity War. I'm terrified of Solo but I will go see it, and I'll see Ep. 9 at least twice in theaters. But yeah, the Mary Poppins scene is bad... Really bad. I don't know how anyone at Disney thought "Yes! This is fantastic! Put this in the movie!". Watching it on the first night people laughed out loud at the absurdity of it... That's the first time I've ever heard a Star Wars movie treated like a joke in theater...

I honestly didn't mind it that much. I think the premise was that, as they mentioned in the original trilogy, Leia was a potential powerful Jedi. I just assumed this was showing that she had done Jedi training in the mean-time and was just using the poor old lady thing as a cover, like Yoda did with the old man with a cane routine.

 

[Majes]

I honestly didn't mind it that much. I think the premise was that, as they mentioned in the original trilogy, Leia was a potential powerful Jedi. I just assumed this was showing that she had done Jedi training in the mean-time and was just using the poor old lady thing as a cover, like Yoda did with the old man with a cane routine.

No, I understood and don't mind the premise, but I think it was executed terribly. Apparently in Star Wars now explosions and debris just hang out near the ship giving unconscious Jedi plenty of time to awake and force claw their way back to the ship. I can stretch my mind quite a bit, but it didn't need to happen. Should have just shown her latching onto something with the force during the explosion and fighting her way back to the ship through that.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Just to clarify, he is writing a new trilogy. He is not in charge of Episode 9 or the Solo film. But yes, three more movies. He did get some acclaim for a few Breaking Bad episodes, I know many people were pumped when he was announced.

IMDB has him listed as the writer for the new trilogy and the director for the first film of the trilogy. I assumed it was accurate but it may not be.

 

[Nashemon]

IMDB has him listed as the writer for the new trilogy and the director for the first film of the trilogy. I assumed it was accurate but it may not be.

That is accurate. He's not arguing that you don't understand that. He was correcting your post about which movies he's writing/directing. It's merely how one might read "next 3" in your post. He's not writing and/or directing the next 3 movies. He's not involved with the next 2 of them at all. He's writing the next trilogy (subject to change), which are the 3rd, 4th, and 5th movies from now.

 

[Feneant2]

I'm late to the party and just saw this last night because after VII I didn't have high expectations. I'm not unhappy I went but I'll probably never watch it again, or at least if I do I'll be able to fast forward through the stupid parts.

In terms of ratio, I think the movie had more parts I considered bad than I considered good. Some were flat out stupid (Leia Poppins) while others reminded me so much of the first trilogy I couldn't stomach them (Finn/Rose on that planet). It was surprising how the first movie went out of its way to introduce us to the future generation of secondary characters (Finn, Poe, Maz) and they basically shit on all of them in this movie.

If I had to describe the movie in 1 term, I'd call it disjointed. Where in TFA we got basically exactly what we wanted (they gave us Episode 4...) this movie felt like the writer took every part that made the original 4-5-6 trilogy good, threw in what made the second 1-2-3 trilogy bad and decided we wanted a hellish long movie that answers all the wrong questions.

All I could think of when walking out of the movie was "Please don't tell me episode IX will be based around children and their decoder rings...".

 

[Majes]

All I could think of when walking out of the movie was "Please don't tell me episode IX will be based around children and their decoder rings...".

But they could call it "Revenge of the Younglings"

 

[Skel]

I think the reason that his lightsaber has "a hilt" is because he is actually kinda shitty at making light sabers. I think it's a flaw, not intentional. In "the lore" anyway, your skills are complete when you can make a flawless, perfect beam. He either never really completed this part of his training, or he's just too emotional to do it right. You notice that his beam is "sparky," it has jitters like he's sitting behind some peasant non-adaptive sync display while all the other superior jedis and their lightsabers are rocking adaptive sync. I think what happened is that the power profile in his crystals is unbalanced because he can't align them properly, so the "hilt" is actually a ventilation system--he needs to exhaust the plasma at the crystal alignment so that the business end of the saber can be somewhat stable as a beam. Otherwise, it would just blast out the front like any normal un-contained plasma would. (He's "duct-taping" what is probably the most common problem with building these things--the alignment--rather than understanding and fixing the problem)

I recall this analysis with TFA and I think it's quite apt--his unstable lightsaber is a metaphor for his nature, in general, and also directly shows that his training really isn't complete. Yes, it looks cool and it's easy to look at as what some kid that thinks he's a terrifying badass would do, but I think it works much better to see this as an actual failure in skills.

I mean, it does work for him in the end and it does look badass, so it's kind of a dumb luck thing, but I think there is a reason behind the lightsaber and it's not that he wanted it to look that way.

I might be the only person that hates the 'hilt'. I just think it looks stupid and is completely pointless. The 'hilt' side pieces are sticking out of metal that would be destroyed by the attacking saber. It would only stop a saber that happened to come down aiming at the fingers at just the right angle. I thought it just looked like JJA was just trying to make something new and different to set apart this sith-not-sith-but-something-totally-new-yet-more-of-the-same Vader knock off. Your version of what it is (which is well done) puts more thought into it than anyone working on these films ever did. It's a shame that some much fan theory has to be put into these new movies in order for them to work at all. I can't imagine any other film franchise working like this.

 

[blankslate]

Looks like China may have better judgment in regards to this movie than the U.S.


7 Days Into Its Release, Chinese Theaters Abandon 'The Last Jedi,' Dumping 92% Of Its Screenings

Disney (NYSEIS) can credibly blame the fact that Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle and a slew of local Chinese movies are releasing wide this weekend and sucking up The Last Jedi's venues, but the real story is that Chinese moviegoers have rejected Star Wars: The Last Jedi like a bad liver transplant. The film earned just $27 million in its debut last weekend, less than one-third of the $87 million that the low-budget rom-com Ex-File 3 earned in its second frame, and it added only $7 million during the week, to reach a distressingly low total of $34.2 million in its first 7 days.

If The Last Jedi had been performing the way most Disney movies have over the past year in China, it would have held on to many if not most of those showtimes for its second weekend. The studio's Pixar animated feature Coco, for instance, is still going strong nearly two months after its China premiere.

By comparison TFA did about $124 million in China. If Rian "I spit on SW and take a dump in JJ's Mouth" Johnson still gets his own SW trilogy from Disney at this point...


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[Sonikku]

If I remember correctly, Rogue One did poorly in China as well. Disney chalked it up to pollution.

 

[blankslate]

Rogue One was also a side movie... TLJ is a main story movie like TFA (which btw did almost twice as well on opening weekend in China and why I'm holding it but not R1 up to the China results of TFA)

/shrug


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[Majes]

Looks like China may have better judgment in regards to this movie than the U.S.


7 Days Into Its Release, Chinese Theaters Abandon 'The Last Jedi,' Dumping 92% Of Its Screenings



By comparison TFA did about $124 million in China. If Rian "I spit on SW and take a dump in JJ's Mouth" Johnson still gets his own SW trilogy from Disney at this point...


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Has the general public really switched its feelings on The Force Awakens? I thought the general consensus was that while the movie was well made the plot was absolute trash. But I'm finding a lot of people here defending The Force Awakens.

I think China's numbers point more to how poorly The Force Awakens was received. TFA was pretty much the death blow to Star Wars in China. It just didn't resonate there, and Rogue One and The Last Jedi suffered because of it.

 

[blankslate]

I think China's numbers point more to how poorly The Force Awakens was received. TFA was pretty much the death blow to Star Wars in China. It just didn't resonate there, and Rogue One and The Last Jedi suffered because of it.

I actually liked TFA yeah it was a soft reboot and shared quite a lot of the same beats but JJ Abrams maligned puzzle box style of introducing a story could have worked.
There was a lot to build on....
Taking all of those flaws into account it felt like Star Wars for the most part... And I actually did enjoy it.

I saw it multiple times while it was in release in the U.S.
After I left the theater after having watch ed TLJ I had time to think about it and realized a lot of the flaws that have been already talked about in videos posted in this thread were greater than the flaws in TFA and I haven't been back to watch it again.

It could be that Star Wars movies just aren't for China since the original Trilogy wasn't shown there afaik. But TLJ surely didn't help the argument at all.

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