Starcraft 2!

[Vortex22]

Blizzard has always been known to take their games, and tweak them to such perfection that everyone could really get into it, but with enough depth that pros could really make something out of it, WOW being a perfect example. With this it just seems like theyre catering to the hardcore, and not really pushing the accessibility they've always done in the past.

I can't understand how people are able to come to this conclusion after seeing a few preliminary pre-alpha videos. Even from what's been shown so far, almost all the units are completely new or have new abilities. What do you mean by not pushing the accessibility like they've done in the past? It looks like it will play in a fashion very similar to SC1, how is this less accessible than something completely new?

 

[UF Matt]

I think it'll be great. They claim to be making the races a bit more unique, yet still balanced. The graphics will obviously be much much better, and online will be free with Battle.net. Nothing wrong with a return to a classic formula. I'll buy it.

 

[AdaptiveBrainMatter]

Starcraft 2 !! I feel just like a marine who has just recieved a stimpack injection. Uah! The game itself looks great, but I hope they will be able to balance it out decently. I think it's not going to be an easy task with so many units that can do unique things like that unit that can teleport and the units which can climb down/up walls. I cant wait to try it out.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: BD2003
Although it looks good, it also looks like its just missing something. What is there thats new to get really excited about?

SC brought us three well balanced, different races. Which was awesome.
WC3 brought us four well balanced races, heroes, items, leveling etc...and it was awesome. (IMO)

Whats new here? Although they are apparently too afraid to be innovative or else risk alienating their rabid fanbase, it's looking very street fighter 3ish. That is to say - great game, technically better than the original that started the craze, but just doesnt have that "it" factor. Unless theyre holding something back.

I just don't see how a game with 10 year old play mechanics can take the world by storm...and at this point, thats what we expect blizzard games to do.

Well you don't want to fix what isn't broken... They have to be so careful with what they change as they don't want to negatively affect anything they did right in the first one. That was damn near everything, so by a safety standpoint nothing much needs to be changed. I would really like to see a bunch of new stuff too but I'd rather the tried and true stuff stay untouched.

Well, people are more than happy to continue to buy and play the original game. After WC3 advanced the formula, this is like taking one step back from what we've seen. The tried and true isnt dead, and nailed it just about perfectly, so why recreate it?

I'm happy with it. First off, we don't know exactly what is in store. Command and conquer basically just remade the old series with C&C 3, they added 1 race, but they stuck to the old style and added a couple of things here and there. To me, that is a great game. I think SC2 will do it even better.

My only fear is that, yes, the graphics don't look amazing. That is not a problem to me right now, but I fear if the graphics don't look good now, and the game is over a year from coming out, how bad could it look by that time? I really hope the graphics get refined before it comes out or it comes out within 6 months.

The graphics are better no doubt than the original SC. Mindblowing? Nah. But still, what we want is to be able to play money maps and custom games with MASSes of units. Forget those map limits, maxing out... "Cannot create more units" blah blah. Forget about 8bit limitations and upgrade levels of 255 only.

It's time to move on.

WC3 has something new, but trust me, there's a world of people wanting a newer Starcraft, not with sweeping changes, but rather just updates.

Edit: The reason C&C failed was because it introduced a new era of RTS games. Starcraft saw what RTS could be like when its fast paced and built with rushes and 20 different strategy executions and made it a flawless multiplayer game. CNC could never do the same. When people build upon your game concepts and make it better, you better change fast, or else you're screwed.

Look at Half Life and CS. Outdated games. HL2 and CS Source changed everything. Gameplay was the same, but you have, in essence, the same game with better graphics. You could say Doom set the staging ground for FPS shooters. Doom 3 was great, but was it a hit like HL or CS? Nope. Same thing once again. Once you start something cool, and someone else comes along with mods and upgrades to your innovations, and the public accepts it even better, then you should realize that your original invention was good, but coupled with new things it could be even better.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Blizzard has always been known to take their games, and tweak them to such perfection that everyone could really get into it, but with enough depth that pros could really make something out of it, WOW being a perfect example. With this it just seems like theyre catering to the hardcore, and not really pushing the accessibility they've always done in the past.

I can't understand how people are able to come to this conclusion after seeing a few preliminary pre-alpha videos. Even from what's been shown so far, almost all the units are completely new or have new abilities. What do you mean by not pushing the accessibility like they've done in the past? It looks like it will play in a fashion very similar to SC1, how is this less accessible than something completely new?

For example: the interface in WC2 was pretty difficult to deal with.

The interface in SC was much easier to handle, but there was a lot that was unnecessarily difficult as well - I cant say I've used many defilers because they would all be dead by the time I got around to actually clicking the units and all those buttons to use their ability.

WC3 simplified that, while adding depth, by making the heroes the focal point of special abilities, which were always easily accessible. Autocast was also pretty huge for other units - can you imagine using necros, shamans or priests without it? These changes made the gameplay more streamlined and natural, you had less micromanagement to worry about, and your strategy was led by a clear focal unit.

While I'm sure SC2 will have autocast, from what we've seen, theres no heroes. Which is fine, but there isnt any obvious change in gameplay that will really step it up like the heroes did, and truly advance the series. I havent seen anything in it that wasnt possible or thought of 10 years ago - I'm just not impressed by units that can step over levels. It looks like a step back gameplay wise from WC3, which doesnt make sense to me.

I'm sure it'll be great and all, but I'd like to see it brought into the 21st century, rather than rehash the past. Maybe theyre too scared to do it because of how wildly successful SC1 is, but then IMO, if they arent going to take any risks and do something new, they shouldnt do it at all, and just made a total 3d remake of SC.

Who knows, maybe there's something major that theyre not showing yet, but the game looks VERY far along. Still looking forward to it though.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Blizzard has always been known to take their games, and tweak them to such perfection that everyone could really get into it, but with enough depth that pros could really make something out of it, WOW being a perfect example. With this it just seems like theyre catering to the hardcore, and not really pushing the accessibility they've always done in the past.

I can't understand how people are able to come to this conclusion after seeing a few preliminary pre-alpha videos. Even from what's been shown so far, almost all the units are completely new or have new abilities. What do you mean by not pushing the accessibility like they've done in the past? It looks like it will play in a fashion very similar to SC1, how is this less accessible than something completely new?

For example: the interface in WC2 was pretty difficult to deal with.

The interface in SC was much easier to handle, but there was a lot that was unnecessarily difficult as well - I cant say I've used many defilers because they would all be dead by the time I got around to actually clicking the units and all those buttons to use their ability.

WC3 simplified that, while adding depth, by making the heroes the focal point of special abilities, which were always easily accessible. Autocast was also pretty huge for other units - can you imagine using necros, shamans or priests without it? These changes made the gameplay more streamlined and natural, you had less micromanagement to worry about, and your strategy was led by a clear focal unit.

While I'm sure SC2 will have autocast, from what we've seen, theres no heroes. Which is fine, but there isnt any obvious change in gameplay that will really step it up like the heroes did, and truly advance the series. I havent seen anything in it that wasnt possible or thought of 10 years ago - I'm just not impressed by units that can step over levels. It looks like a step back gameplay wise from WC3, which doesnt make sense to me.

I'm sure it'll be great and all, but I'd like to see it brought into the 21st century, rather than rehash the past. Maybe theyre too scared to do it because of how wildly successful SC1 is, but then IMO, if they arent going to take any risks and do something new, they shouldnt do it at all, and just made a total 3d remake of SC.

Who knows, maybe there's something major that theyre not showing yet, but the game looks VERY far along. Still looking forward to it though.

I think it will be very similar to SC. There is likely no huge secret change that they're waiting to reveal. SC is loved by so many that Blizz would probably face massive backlash if they made sweeping or fundamental changes to the game. I know a LOT of people including myself who would be pretty upset if they added WC3 style heroes to SC2, it just wouldn't fit with game's style.

 

[UF Matt]

If it runs well, is true to the original, adds in a few interesting new units, and allows for a wider viewing area, I think people will lap it up. A quasi-retro game.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Blizzard has always been known to take their games, and tweak them to such perfection that everyone could really get into it, but with enough depth that pros could really make something out of it, WOW being a perfect example. With this it just seems like theyre catering to the hardcore, and not really pushing the accessibility they've always done in the past.

I can't understand how people are able to come to this conclusion after seeing a few preliminary pre-alpha videos. Even from what's been shown so far, almost all the units are completely new or have new abilities. What do you mean by not pushing the accessibility like they've done in the past? It looks like it will play in a fashion very similar to SC1, how is this less accessible than something completely new?

For example: the interface in WC2 was pretty difficult to deal with.

The interface in SC was much easier to handle, but there was a lot that was unnecessarily difficult as well - I cant say I've used many defilers because they would all be dead by the time I got around to actually clicking the units and all those buttons to use their ability.

WC3 simplified that, while adding depth, by making the heroes the focal point of special abilities, which were always easily accessible. Autocast was also pretty huge for other units - can you imagine using necros, shamans or priests without it? These changes made the gameplay more streamlined and natural, you had less micromanagement to worry about, and your strategy was led by a clear focal unit.

While I'm sure SC2 will have autocast, from what we've seen, theres no heroes. Which is fine, but there isnt any obvious change in gameplay that will really step it up like the heroes did, and truly advance the series. I havent seen anything in it that wasnt possible or thought of 10 years ago - I'm just not impressed by units that can step over levels. It looks like a step back gameplay wise from WC3, which doesnt make sense to me.

I'm sure it'll be great and all, but I'd like to see it brought into the 21st century, rather than rehash the past. Maybe theyre too scared to do it because of how wildly successful SC1 is, but then IMO, if they arent going to take any risks and do something new, they shouldnt do it at all, and just made a total 3d remake of SC.

Who knows, maybe there's something major that theyre not showing yet, but the game looks VERY far along. Still looking forward to it though.

I think it will be very similar to SC. There is likely no huge secret change that they're waiting to reveal. SC is loved by so many that Blizz would probably face massive backlash if they made sweeping or fundamental changes to the game. I know a LOT of people including myself who would be pretty upset if they added WC3 style heroes to SC2, it just wouldn't fit with game's style.

plus i didn't really like wc3, i stopped playing it pretty quick compared to starcraft. i've reinstalled starcraft in recent times, never wc3. i hated the heros thing

 

[videogames101]

Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i read gamespy's stuff on SC2.. the most distressing thing was "iffy graphics" - blizzard has NEVER been about graphics, IMO. i expect starcraft to have upgrades, but i'm not looking for unreal3 turned RTS quality of graphics. i'm incredibly excited because starcraft has always been my benchmark for a fun RTS (and nothing has exceeded it to me). maybe i should go back and play the single player campaigns

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
i read gamespy's stuff on SC2.. the most distressing thing was "iffy graphics" - blizzard has NEVER been about graphics, IMO. i expect starcraft to have upgrades, but i'm not looking for unreal3 turned RTS quality of graphics. i'm incredibly excited because starcraft has always been my benchmark for a fun RTS (and nothing has exceeded it to me). maybe i should go back and play the single player campaigns

That's exactly what I was thinking of doing after I get home this quarter and find the discs.

 

[DannyLove]

honestly, doesn't look all that special. same sh!t

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: DannyLove
honestly, doesn't look all that special. same sh!t

even if all blizzard did was give SC1 a 3d engine and update scripting abilities, i'd buy it for that alone - the aftermarket maps are incredible and unbelieveably numerous

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Vortex22

Blizzard has always been known to take their games, and tweak them to such perfection that everyone could really get into it, but with enough depth that pros could really make something out of it, WOW being a perfect example. With this it just seems like theyre catering to the hardcore, and not really pushing the accessibility they've always done in the past.

I can't understand how people are able to come to this conclusion after seeing a few preliminary pre-alpha videos. Even from what's been shown so far, almost all the units are completely new or have new abilities. What do you mean by not pushing the accessibility like they've done in the past? It looks like it will play in a fashion very similar to SC1, how is this less accessible than something completely new?

For example: the interface in WC2 was pretty difficult to deal with.

The interface in SC was much easier to handle, but there was a lot that was unnecessarily difficult as well - I cant say I've used many defilers because they would all be dead by the time I got around to actually clicking the units and all those buttons to use their ability.

WC3 simplified that, while adding depth, by making the heroes the focal point of special abilities, which were always easily accessible. Autocast was also pretty huge for other units - can you imagine using necros, shamans or priests without it? These changes made the gameplay more streamlined and natural, you had less micromanagement to worry about, and your strategy was led by a clear focal unit.

While I'm sure SC2 will have autocast, from what we've seen, theres no heroes. Which is fine, but there isnt any obvious change in gameplay that will really step it up like the heroes did, and truly advance the series. I havent seen anything in it that wasnt possible or thought of 10 years ago - I'm just not impressed by units that can step over levels. It looks like a step back gameplay wise from WC3, which doesnt make sense to me.

I'm sure it'll be great and all, but I'd like to see it brought into the 21st century, rather than rehash the past. Maybe theyre too scared to do it because of how wildly successful SC1 is, but then IMO, if they arent going to take any risks and do something new, they shouldnt do it at all, and just made a total 3d remake of SC.

Who knows, maybe there's something major that theyre not showing yet, but the game looks VERY far along. Still looking forward to it though.

I think it will be very similar to SC. There is likely no huge secret change that they're waiting to reveal. SC is loved by so many that Blizz would probably face massive backlash if they made sweeping or fundamental changes to the game. I know a LOT of people including myself who would be pretty upset if they added WC3 style heroes to SC2, it just wouldn't fit with game's style.

plus i didn't really like wc3, i stopped playing it pretty quick compared to starcraft. i've reinstalled starcraft in recent times, never wc3. i hated the heros thing

I liked WC3, but certainly not as much as SC. The heroes thing did add a nice change of pace but it really changed things around, screwing up multiplayer for me the most. But even in single player it changed things around enough to the point where if you spent the time you could turn your heroes into relative juggernauts and just keep most of your units on defense (I'd usually only make enough units to stay below upkeep - which I absolutely hated - and then whore the gold until I got 100% of it because upkeep isn't retroactive...

Even then my heroes would be powerful enough to practically take on entire enemy bases without any help from regular units...

I found it to be fun but I think the hero RPG elements really stole a lot of the true RTS elements. I really preferred SC's heroes where they were almost more of a liability because you'd fail the mission if they died and thus you'd almost always keep them secure in your base on defensive duty except perhaps for a finalizing attack.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: videogames101
Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

Your the same kind of lousy person thats been preaching to us SC fans "theres never gonna be an SC2 guys... let it go!! give up!!" and now look! SC2 is coming! Its gonna be awsome, so now all you negative nancy types have decided it will suck. Starcraft 2 will be the greatest game ever made, accept it.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG
It's all about money. D2, SC, WC3 are all still popular titles. WoW is just a straight up cash cow for Blizzard. If they release too many games within a short period of time, they'll only be competing with themselves.

It doesn't matter how popular D2, SC and WC3 are, they don't bring in additional money to Blizzard if everyone already owns.

WoW is the exception, but that should only mean Blizzard shouldn't release a competing MMORPG.

And to everyone complaining about the graphics, you are retarded, blind, or both.

 

[skace]

Oh and I hope creeping dies with WC3. It was a fun game, but it slowed down the RTS gameplay, and turned it into a hybrid RPG. Like Bunny said, that is counter to SC's gameplay style which is very fast paced.

I also saw some concerns about the camera angle, the camera they showed in the ingame videos (are people not watching these?) was a similar height from the original SC camera angle. So I wouldn't have any concerns there.

 

[0roo0roo]

yea for single player i didn't mind heros. but for multiplayer...that just blew chunks

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: videogames101
Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

Your the same kind of lousy person thats been preaching to us SC fans "theres never gonna be an SC2 guys... let it go!! give up!!" and now look! SC2 is coming! Its gonna be awsome, so now all you negative nancy types have decided it will suck. Starcraft 2 will be the greatest game ever made, accept it.

so how many RTS players love MMO's? it's not 100%, which means not everyone who owns starcraft owns WoW. in addition, there are plenty of other RTS's which have tried to dethrone SC over the years - which means there is market that blizzard can (re)capture. not to mention that starcraft2 will sell wildly in korea alone - 4M out of the ~9.5M copies of starcraft have been sold in korea alone

 

[ubercaffeinated]

i just want to play some bloodbath... or big game hunters.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: videogames101
Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

How would it 'ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC'? Won't the original still be exactly the same?

 

[gorcorps]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: videogames101
Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

How would it 'ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC'? Won't the original still be exactly the same?

I think he means one of the greatest SERIES. Which still seems odd... is it a series if there's only one? I mean now we know there'll be 2, but still.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: videogames101
Sry guys, i don't know who your kidding saying "WoW is balanced and fun" **** that, 10 years ago bliz gould have made a fortune with a decent sequal, they just don't have it anymore. this will just ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC.

Sry, for the negative outlook, but it's completely true.

How would it 'ruin one of the greastest games ever released for PC'? Won't the original still be exactly the same?

I think he means one of the greatest SERIES. Which still seems odd... is it a series if there's only one? I mean now we know there'll be 2, but still.

When there is two it will be a series. As of now its just a standalone game.

 

[FluxCap]

I sure wish I could get a job with Blizzard right now in the middle of the World of Starcraft development. I bet it is an exciting time, but very tiring.

 

[James Bond]

Originally posted by: FluxCap
I sure wish I could get a job with Blizzard right now in the middle of the World of Starcraft development. I bet it is an exciting time, but very tiring.