Stardocks CEO: "DirectX 12 will create gaming graphics like CGI Hollywood effects"

[Mondozei]

In the TiC podcast(link here), the CEO of Stardock, Brad Wardell claims that DX12 will make a massive leap in gaming graphics.

A lot of us have noted that we have not seen a jump in gaming graphics like Crysis 1 since... Crysis 1. And that is now an almost unbelievable eight years ago.

Mr. Wardell says one of the key reasons for this is that DX12 allows a much higher illumination count of any one scene, which is critical for realistic effects. He says this is already possible with the technology in GPUs we have today but that the bottleneck is DX11. He also claims that this is also possible with Mantle but it hasn't happened because developers couldn't create such a rift between Mantle and DX11 for those with non-AMD GPUs - which is the majority of the market, after all.

He finally closes by saying that we'll see this on consoles too, and that these changes will land once we have specific DX12-developed games, so like 2-3 years out from now.

My reactions:

1. Skeptical about his console claims
2. He sounds reasonable on his explanation why Mantle didn't take off
3. On the light source issue, we've had GI for some time now, even if it is resource heavy, but isn't raytracing a bigger issue than the sheer amount of light particles?

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Big words. We should be used to the incessant hype by now.

The bottom line is, all hardware has a raw performance limit you cannot exceed. Consoles are ancient tech now. They'll be antediluvian by the time DX12 comes out in force. The world of game development will not change, the glass ceiling of what the consoles can do will just move a tad higher.

I do want to see what games like Star Citizen can do with the new tech though.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Lots of marketing hype.

And who will remember this 2-3 years down the road?

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Paul98]

If it actually does allow many interactive lights that is going to be HUGE. Right now each light added causes a large performance hit. Not only that but these types of lights make a scene look much more realistic or interesting. You can fake part of it with static lighting, but being able to add a large number of real time lights will give us a good boost in graphic quality.

I know I am excited to use DX12 to see what performance boost my games will get, and what new things I can do without killing performance.

 

[RussianSensation]

Ya, basically 100% meaningless projection without telling us when it will actually happen: 12 months, 3 years, 5-10 years? We know that graphics will continue to improve but anyone who thinks we'll have a graphics leap like Crysis 1 within 6-12 months of Windows 10/DX12 launch is delusional. The same argument he uses why Mantle was niche is going to apply for DX12 games. No developer will commit suicide and make a DX12 game from the ground-up in 2015/2016. Possibly the best looking game, Star Citizen isn't even DX12. I bet the total number of DX12 AAA games in development right now is likely between 0 and 2. There isn't even 1 GPU out today that will be good enough for these "CGI" DX12 graphics. Sounds like the typical DX hype we always get and then we wait 3-4 years until games actually start taking full advantage of the new API.

 

[brandonb]

If DX12 supports ray tracing, then maybe.

 

[Headfoot]

If it was already possible but only limited due to the DX11 API, then it would exist on consoles that do not have that limitation. I've not seen a dramatic jump in number of illumination sources even in console exclusive titles (e.g. ones that should not be limited by PC architecture considerations during the design phase).

Unless of course the console hardware is limiting the number of light sources: e.g. the API would support more ala DX12 but the CPU or other hardware limitation in the console has effectively capped it out. I could see this given the console's weak CPU relative to the type of CPUs DX12 will debut on

 

[geoxile]

He also said that games right now are still being programmed like they were in the DX9 era, even with some tricks here and there. I guess we'll see if that's true.

Also, I think most of his talk about movie quality was actually about the number of characters and objects on screen. Towards the end he spent a lot of time talking about how games now feel very empty

 

[tential]

He also said that games right now are still being programmed like they were in the DX9 era, even with some tricks here and there. I guess we'll see if that's true.

Also, I think most of his talk about movie quality was actually about the number of characters and objects on screen. Towards the end he spent a lot of time talking about how games now feel very empty

How much of the market has fully compliant DX11 hardware I wonder.

 

[PPB]

Rhe ue4 paris demo is good compared to what we see in AAA next gen titles, but is still far away from the photorealism phisical based render engines provide to the CGI film industry. They still abuse AO techniques to compensate the bland GI implementation in said engine.

Ps i also think the first dx12 game would be battlefront 3, as the frodtbite devs are quite keen on pushing innivations API wise. Wether that game turns out to be another buggy mess like bf4 at launch, i cant tell.

 

[Mondozei]

How much of the market has fully compliant DX11 hardware I wonder.

Good point.

On the other hand, just take a look at the Steam GPU Survey.

Even beyond compability, the fact that most people still have relatively weak GPUs is something to ponder, let alone the fact that most of these GPUs are old. We won't see the first DX 12 games in 2-3 years at the earliest and given the slow pace of upgrading most people seem to have, the question before developers is if it will be worth it if most of their customers won't have the hardware to support it. Consoles do have an advantage here, as always, but my skepticism about his claims re: consoles remain unchanged.

Still, for niche games like Star Citizen and similar types of games, it would be awesome. For the mainstream market, I doubt we'll see much until at least 4-5 years from now but for the enthusiasts, that could be different.

Carmack, when discussing ray tracing has often pointed out that hardware capability is not enough and you need a fundamental overhaul of the APIs and the software. DX 12 is certainly going to be a step in the right direction, but I doubt it'll be all the way.

Further, for a fragmented ecosystem like the PC ecosystem, a high-level API like DX 11 does have its advantages. People often seem to forget that the concept of low-level APIs are not new and that they were discarded way back when for good reasons. They are now giving way as the mainstream GPUs you can buy today are way more powerful than DX 11 can allow, but that also runs you into the same problem as the CPU space has had for quite some time.

Namely, that despite seeing HT-enabled quad cores and increasingly native 6- and 8-core processors, parallelisation of most games remain very paltry. It is simply very difficult for most developers to do correctly and it'll be interesting to see if DX 12 remains different.

 

[ShintaiDK]

We won't see the first DX 12 games in 2-3 years at the earliest

Are you talking about DX12 features or DX12 API? And do you really believe that?

Fermi, kepler, Maxwell, GCN, Haswell, Broadwell all run DX12 API. Free upgrade for anyone on 7, 8, 8.1 to 10.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/03/20/dir...he-market-around-holiday-2015-says-microsoft/

 

[Granseth]

I remember the same for the geforce fx 5xxx series
http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_cinefx.html

As special effects in the latest Hollywood blockbuster films continue to advance at an incredible rate, you?ve come to expect amazingly realistic explosions, true-to-life ocean waves in a sea storm, and incredibly vivid colors in animated features. So there's no reason you should settle for anything less than the best when it comes to your games.

not meant as a pun against nVidia, instead meant as a pun against this kind of marketing.
I almost waited to by a nVidia card because of these statements until someone told me to get my head out of my ass and get a Radeon 9500 pro instead.

 

[imaheadcase]

These broad claims come around every DX version. Fact is most games don't even use most features of DX as it is. Let alone DX11 features.

 

[therealnickdanger]

LOL, this is the same line we've been fed since the first dGPU went on sale. While modern games have eclipsed "Lawnmower Man", I'm not sure we've beaten "Jurassic Park" yet.