Start Button and Boot to desktop may be back in Windows Blue, From ZDNet

[ControlD]

Good, maybe they'll use the opportunity to improve the start menu as well. The one introduced in XP and that carried over to Vista and 7 sucks b/c it makes you scroll down the list of programs instead of displaying your programs in columns across the screen. In XP I simply went to classic start menu instead and I tried that in Vista but found the menu to be too slow. 7 completely removed classic start menu - not good. So since Vista I've been using what is now called Start Menu X:
http://www.startmenux.com/index.html
Compact Menu w/ cascading columns and "one click" Programs display instead of click one to open the start menu and clicking again on "Programs". I wish it was less memory intensive (sitting at 16 Mb in task manager - which was enough to run the entirety of Windows 98 OS back in the day) but it does what I want it to and it's free (with some extra features in the PRO version). I haven't tried it on 8 but it's supposed to be compatible

I hope they only make that an option honestly. I hate the cascading menu from XP and thought the column mode was a brilliant change.

 

[douglasb]

.I do think Microsoft want to stay with hybrid OS that can accomodate everything.

What they've done is end up with a hybrid that accommodates nothing well. A "Jack of all trades, master of none", if you will. To me, it is insane that they would think that people would want the exact same experience on their phones and tablets as on their $5,000 workstation. It's as if Chevy decided that Corvette owners should have the same driving experience as Spark owners. It is mind-boggling that somebody in management at Microsoft could be that stupid.

 

[Super56K]

I don't miss the old start button infact was hoping they don't bring it back,booting to old desktop could be handy for those that spend most of their time there,I 'm one of them but then it only takes less then a second to go between the old desktop and Metro so really only a minor improvement IMHO.

I do hope Microsoft move forward and not backwards and think of new modern ways to improve WinBlue/8.1 etc rather then giving in to those people that prefer the old ways.

So Mem, you seem to be one of the most positive towards Win 8 among anyone else in this subforum, so what is it about the start screen that makes it so great? My experience with Windows 8 showed me that the real improvements of the OS are under the hood: Boot times, power management, revamped task manager, file copying, security, flattened explorer ui (which I quite like), built in iso handling, Hyper V, file history, and so on. It's a really impressive list of enhancements and on those alone a worthy successor to Windows 7.

But, bolted on top of their most refined and impressive OS yet is a touch/tablet-oriented UI that unceremoniously shoves the desktop (and many of those improvements) aside and relegates it to pseudo-legacy/app status. On a device without a touch screen why force it? In my usage it took a full powered machine and gimped it by adding artificial limitations in the name of debatable simplicity, while striking out on the intended elegance of it all by shuttling a user back and forth between their desktop and the start screen. Even making a shortcut from the start screen to the desktop became a convoluted process. I was actually a little embarrassed recently to have to walk a couple through it when they called for help (who were also embarrassed that they couldn't figure it out on their own). By the end of the call I had to play Microsoft PR guy hemming and hawwing about why some of the changes were made.

 

[Zaap]

I do hope Microsoft move forward and not backwards and think of new modern ways to improve WinBlue/8.1 etc rather then giving in to those people that prefer the old ways.

Me too, which is exactly why they should actually move forward, not backwards like much of Win8. OLD ways like: full screen apps with no Windows/menus (What's that a throwback to like, 25+ years ago?) The bland, flat interface elements (throwback to Windows 3.1 or so)

Making a "touch" interface that's so dreadful even its proponents yell "You have to use a keyboard!" which of course utterly defeats the purpose and is like stepping back in time several decades.

Tossing out 30+ years of tried and true UI paradigms and collective interface knowledge in order to rewind back decades...

So yes, I hope that they stop giving in to those that insist on the old ways and get back to designing for those that have long since moved on.

 

[Mem]

So Mem, you seem to be one of the most positive towards Win 8 among anyone else in this subforum, so what is it about the start screen that makes it so great? My experience with Windows 8 showed me that the real improvements of the OS are under the hood: Boot times, power management, revamped task manager, file copying, security, flattened explorer ui (which I quite like), built in iso handling, Hyper V, file history, and so on. It's a really impressive list of enhancements and on those alone a worthy successor to Windows 7.

But, bolted on top of their most refined and impressive OS yet is a touch/tablet-oriented UI that unceremoniously shoves the desktop (and many of those improvements) aside and relegates it to pseudo-legacy/app status. On a device without a touch screen why force it? In my usage it took a full powered machine and gimped it by adding artificial limitations in the name of debatable simplicity, while striking out on the intended elegance of it all by shuttling a user back and forth between their desktop and the start screen. Even making a shortcut from the start screen to the desktop became a convoluted process. I was actually a little embarrassed recently to have to walk a couple through it when they called for help (who were also embarrassed that they couldn't figure it out on their own). By the end of the call I had to play Microsoft PR guy hemming and hawwing about why some of the changes were made.

I'm old school that started on DOS 6.22 so any Windows OS and I've have virtually used every Windows OS you can name is a piece of cake to use,don't get me wrong I can find faults in any Windows OS you can name and even good old DOS but over the decades(yes old timer here)I've got use to all the changes from Microsoft etc some for the better and others for the worst.

Right now I would even say I'm bit bored of Win8 because nothing really new to learn or goes wrong for me,once you master Metro(or should I say Win8 main start screen) and the old desktop UI thats it.


You could say I don't mind if they remove certain things, change UI etc...end of the day I started on DOS 6.22(Microsoft wise) and that in many that ways was a lot harder then any Windows OS ,assigning IRQs ,remapping memory(expanded memory etc) so you could just run a game, learning all the DOS commands,I do think users nowadays do have it way too easy then those old days and find it easier to moan about things etc..(nothing really wrong in that).
I can except anybody that does not like Win8 or any OS but it always gets me thinking of my DOS 6.22 days and how I started back then,yes in many ways it was hard for me at first but I actually enjoyed using DOS 6.22,nowadays I'm playing with Linux(Mint,Ubuntu etc) so nothing really phases me.

Win8 is not perfect(no OS is,not even Win7) however it can be improved with the next generation of operating systems etc...

I do like the fact that Microsoft have decided to try something new rather then stick with the old Win95 to Win7 UI which is almost 20 years old (scarey in a way,more so then Metro lol...).

I do hope to see improvements in Win9,10 etc.. for desktop users and even if they redesign the UI completely I would also look forward to that.

Anyway I look forward to the next new Microsoft OS,something new to play with .

For the record only Win3.11 and WinME are only two I did not like(Microsoft wise).


I do think Microsoft need to make their minds up on the direction they want to go, ie do they want to stick with a hybrid OS that caters for everything or not,I guess only they can answer that,whatever happens we get the fallout lol so to speak.

I hope you can see my point of view,anyway as I stated I can respect anybody that does not like something but nowadays its kids play compared to the old days .

 

[ElFenix]

There isn't anything "new" about Windows 8 UI. There's just stuff that's different for the sake of being different, and stuff that's missing.

There is a lot of really good under the hood functional improvement. But most of that gets trashed because ms decided to try to use its desktop dominance to get everyone used to its tablet/phone UI and to try to get a larger ecosystem for their tablet effort.

 

[nehalem256]

I do like the fact that Microsoft have decided to try something new rather then stick with the old Win95 to Win7 UI which is almost 20 years old (scary in a way,more so then Metro lol...).

Why is the fact that Microsoft stuck with tweaking a successful UI design for 20 years so scary?

Are you also bothered by the fact that cars still use steering wheels?

 

[vbuggy]

Have you ever looked at well used keyboards ?

Guess what key NEVER gets touched ?

Posting that kind of puts you out of the race of being able to comment in any way about Windows 8

 

[Mem]

Why is the fact that Microsoft stuck with tweaking a successful UI design for 20 years so scary?

Are you also bothered by the fact that cars still use steering wheels?

Did you not bring up the steering wheel remark before(you saw my latest steering wheel pics that I posted right, ie some without steering wheels?).

My point was almost 20 years of samething ,even Linux Distros have changed over the years,I'm sure Microsoft could of changed the UI if they wanted in that almost 20 years period rather then rehash of samething,maybe they got lazy who knows and it was just easier for them to do minor tweaks,also easier on the average user.

Example Win3.11 to Win95(major change UI wise) then from Win95 to Win7 rehash of same UI as if they ran out of ideas UI wise,as the old saying goes "you can only skin a wookie so many times".

As to successful well it was only successful because you had no other choice in that period(almost 20 years) and even some Windows based on that UI were a disaster ie WinMe.

 

[vbuggy]

Why is the fact that Microsoft stuck with tweaking a successful UI design for 20 years so scary?

Are you also bothered by the fact that cars still use steering wheels?

It's a great analogy. It's like a guy saying "What are these paddles behind my steering wheel? I can't deal with it!" :sneaky:

 

[Zaap]

... ms decided to try to use its desktop dominance to get everyone used to its tablet/phone UI and to try to get a larger ecosystem for their tablet effort.

And this whole idea is misguided and based on a hoop-dream. I've witnessed all sorts of people who are technology noobs go to get their first smart phone or tablet. I've NEVER seen any of them even make the connection that the interface of the phone/tablet should be the same as what they use for a desktop computer, or that the two things have to be intimately related in the way MS is dreaming of.

They see a cool Android, or iOS phone and want it for all sorts of reasons, but not because the interface is just like something else they use. They want it to be able to sync with their laptop or desktop, but people understand perfectly well that doesn't strictly mean "And so using it has to look and feel exactly the same too!"

So many of MS's ideas on interfaces are just so backward and based on an obvious fantasy they have to force people into liking their lackluster selling phones.

To use other product categories as analogies, MS is acting as if people feel the need to have the dash instruments of their car match the interface of their HDTV match their video game console, etc. What's obviously better is not a forced 'ecosystem' between barely related devices, but the best interface possible for each one as its own entity. A tablet/phone interface grafted onto a desktop PC was probably the worst possible attempt at synergy they could have come up with.

 

[Mem]

And this whole idea is misguided and based on a hoop-dream. I've witnessed all sorts of people who are technology noobs go to get their first smart phone or tablet. I've NEVER seen any of them even make the connection that the interface of the phone/tablet should be the same as what they use for a desktop computer, or that the two things have to be intimately related in the way MS is dreaming of.

They see a cool Android, or iOS phone and want it for all sorts of reasons, but not because the interface is just like something else they use. They want it to be able to sync with their laptop or desktop, but people understand perfectly well that doesn't strictly mean "And so using it has to look and feel exactly the same too!"

So many of MS's ideas on interfaces are just so backward and based on an obvious fantasy they have to force people into liking their lackluster selling phones.

To use other product categories as analogies, MS is acting as if people feel the need to have the dash instruments of their car match the interface of their HDTV match their video game console, etc. What's obviously better is not a forced 'ecosystem' between barely related devices, but the best interface possible for each one as its own entity. A tablet/phone interface grafted onto a desktop PC was probably the worst possible attempt at synergy they could have come up with.

Microsoft trying to corner the market,my main issue is that all their tablets are overpriced and fewer models then what Android has to offer,ironically thats why they will have a hard time getting me to get rid of my Android tablet(it just works even when transferring files from my Win8 PC) and at a cheaper price.

They also have to decide if a hybrid OS is the direction they want to stay in etc..

 

[Zaap]

That looks completely retarded to me. Where's the evidence this is superior to a steering wheel? What's a real advantage of it, based on actual evidence and studies anyone has performed? Is it really more cost-effective (initial cost, repair, maintenance, use, etc) or just some gimmick to make someone think they are futuristic?

This is just the thing- people don't want change just for change's sake. It's perfectly cool that maybe some people might like to drive their car using one arm with a joystick. I WOULDN'T. Sure, introduce it as an option for those that may prefer it, no problem, I'm all for it, welcome it.

But I don't want car companies to act like MY car must have it. I don't want that. That looks uncomfortable as hell for the way I like to drive, and I know it'd annoy me to have to keep my arm/wrist in one position like that for a long drive. Seems like a carpal tunnel doctor's dream come true. Any car company that tried to force their way on me based on some hoop dream they may have vs. what's more practical and has a proven track record of reliability and success wouldn't get my business.

 

[Mem]

That looks completely retarded to me. Where's the evidence this is superior to a steering wheel? What's a real advantage of it, based on actual evidence and studies anyone has performed? Is it really more cost-effective (initial cost, repair, maintenance, use, etc) or just some gimmick to make someone think they are futuristic?

This is just the thing- people don't want change just for change's sake. It's perfectly cool that maybe some people might like to drive their car using one arm with a joystick. I WOULDN'T. Sure, introduce it as an option for those that may prefer it, no problem, I'm all for it, welcome it.

But I don't want car companies to act like MY car must have it. I don't want that. That looks uncomfortable as hell for the way I like to drive, and I know it'd annoy me to have to keep my arm/wrist in one position like that for a long drive. Seems like a carpal tunnel doctor's dream come true. Any car company that tried to force their way on me based on some hoop dream they may have vs. what's more practical and has a proven track record of reliability and success wouldn't get my business.

Choice is always a good thing ,end of the day even steering wheels change that was my point, you might like this one,now at least you can choose what you want ,rather then stick with just one ie only one UI and no choice .

 

[Zaap]

You're actually arguing against your own point though.

The ones for choice, are those that want a choice of a logical UI, vs, MS's hoop-dream UI.

MS is the one resisting giving people choice, knowing that removing options and forcing their choice on the user is the ONLY way they can try and bully their way into people having to use the Metro style interface and apps.

It'd be like Toyota introducing that crazy joystick in EVERY car they make and then acting like people were crazy and 'old fashioned' to prefer a steering wheel. It'd be even worse insult to injury if (as in the case of MS with Win8) most of their so-called 'new' ideas were actually throwbacks to interfaces that were mostly kicked to the curb decades ago.

 

[Mem]

You're actually arguing against your own point though.

The ones for choice, are those that want a choice of a logical UI, vs, MS's hoop-dream UI.

MS is the one resisting giving people choice, knowing that removing options and forcing their choice on the user is the ONLY way they can try and bully their way into people having to use the Metro style interface and apps.

It'd be like Toyota introducing that crazy joystick in EVERY car they make and then acting like people were crazy and 'old fashioned' to prefer a steering wheel. It'd be even worse insult to injury if (as in the case of MS with Win8) most of their so-called 'new' ideas were actually throwbacks to interfaces that were mostly kicked to the curb decades ago.

I think it depends on how you look at it ie feature wise,things removed or missing and last UI wise.

UI has probably been slowest to change of the two with Microsoft,features come and go ,however with Microsoft you normally get more new features then what is removed ,you could argue give the user an option for both but then thats not my call.

Again its down to the direction Microsoft want to go in ,are they sticking with a hybrid OS where they have to have some sort of compromise .

As to Metro we don't even know if thats here to stay?..I take each new Windows OS as they come,future is always uncertain and with Microsoft nothing no longer surprises me.


One more point UI wise, look at some of the Linux Distro's there UI is superior to Win95 to Win7 UI,so it could of been done ages ago if Microsoft got their act together.

 

[JackMDS]

FWIW, there is today an additional conformation.

Quote from - http://winsupersite.com/podcasts/what-tech-161-new-start-windows

"Paul confirms that Microsoft will be adding a start button and skip to desktop mode in Windows 8.1 "Blue,".

-------------
The "Blue" release is suppose to be free, so may it is a Good time to stop the ""Drama Queening"" and go back to normal life. -

 

[blankslate]

FWIW, there is today an additional conformation.

Quote from - http://winsupersite.com/podcasts/what-tech-161-new-start-windows

"Paul confirms that Microsoft will be adding a start button and skip to desktop mode in Windows 8.1 "Blue,".

-------------
The "Blue" release is suppose to be free, so may it is a Good time to stop the ""Drama Queening"" and go back to normal life. -

This is good news. MS should have offered a choice with Win8 from the start.

That way Microsoft could have offered a short tutorial about "metro" on the first boot after the installation of Win8 while clearly showing how to set Win8 to boot to the "metro" or desktop ui as the user chose. The fact that other software companies offered a way to bring the startmenu ui back to Win8 and that those programs have been popular speaks to the need of this.

Some people can pick up changes to a ui really fast and some people are better served by the option to go back. People who fit into the former shouldn't look down on the people who fit into the latter category. Unfortunately looking at different forums there are people who do just that.

 

[tacosrcool]

I do miss the Aero sparklies.
I do like Windows 8 but I feel the interface is forced

 

[mechBgon]

I never use the Windows key, but my IBM Modem M13 keyboard doesn't have one.

Mine don't either, but my new Unicomp IBM buckling-spring version does. It has a few legit uses, the most common for me being Winkey + left-arrow or right-arrow to stick a couple windows to the left and right edges of their home monitor. Since I have a 2x2 quad-monitor setup at work, I can't do that by simply dragging the windows to the edge, because one will end up on another monitor instead.

Anyway, good move on Microsoft's part (if the report is true). With the Start button and conventional desktop available, they can expect to get a lot more customers, particularly in the business/enterprise arena. Better late than never.

 

[mikeymikec]

Anyway, good move on Microsoft's part (if the report is true). With the Start button and conventional desktop available, they can expect to get a lot more customers

I suggest amending that to "not lose so many customers". Hopefully they will now work on refining what they've got, and do a bit of DirectX innovation, if they want to keep the PC and XBox gaming platforms. Aside from that, stepping up R&D into less explored areas that they might be able to offer solutions for.

 

[ViRGE]

FWIW, there is today an additional conformation.

Quote from - http://winsupersite.com/podcasts/what-tech-161-new-start-windows

"Paul confirms that Microsoft will be adding a start button and skip to desktop mode in Windows 8.1 "Blue,".

-------------
The "Blue" release is suppose to be free, so may it is a Good time to stop the ""Drama Queening"" and go back to normal life. -

Thurrott's the best connected MS outsider there is. So if he says the start button is coming back and that's not a misquote, then that's good enough for me.

 

[mikeymikec]

Thurrott's the best connected MS outsider there is. So if he says the start button is coming back and that's not a misquote, then that's good enough for me.

I'm inclined to trust his word as well. Perhaps Microsoft have decided to put the Start menu back in but haven't implemented it yet.

Hopefully they'll provide an option to lose the moronic 'charms bar' at the same time.

 

[Mem]

Thurrott's the best connected MS outsider there is. So if he says the start button is coming back and that's not a misquote, then that's good enough for me.

I'm sure some users will find something else to moan about,always happens however nothing wrong in that.

 

[PingSpike]

If they keep this up they may soon reach feature parity with Windows 7!