Start with SQL or ACCESS?

[apathy_next2]

Hello everyone.
I want to get my feet wet in programming.

I'm thinking about starting with database programming as this is something that I can actually use in real life and anything I write I can actually taylor and use for myself. I actually need a way to catalogue and later search my daily activities at work.

Right now I found a free class on Udemy:
https://www.udemy.com/introduction-to-databases-and-sql-querying/

I understand that access maybe easier, but if I start with SQL can I be just as effective ? Or am I getting too deep for a novice?

Thanks!

 

[exdeath]

You can use Access with ODBC connectivity to use simple SQL queries but if you are serious I'd get a real RDBMS. MySQL, Postgres, SQL server , Oracle, etc. There are numerous advanced topics you won't be able to perform with Access. I don't know what all Access supports now days but I don't remember it having any standard convention or support for basic "real" database constructs via the SQL interface stuff like stored procedures, transactions, temp tables/views, triggers, etc.

SQL Server Express is free and easy to learn.

 

[mikeymikec]

If you want to start light, then Access isn't a bad place to start. Nothing command line, pretty much everything is visual, and you can write SQL queries from scratch with it if/when you like. I'd couple it with a decent resource (e.g. book) to teach you about relational databases (if that's something you're not that familiar with).

IMO it's a reasonably decent analogy to compare this to learning HTML; look at Access as being the WYSIWYG alternative like Dreamweaver and the rest. It's not the sharpest tool in the box, it definitely has disadvantages, but you can go quite a long way with it until you *have to* look for something sharper, ie. a more fine-tuned tool for the job that lets you do more specific and nitty-gritty things.

Of course it depends on what your ideal end goal is with this. If it's a pet project on the side without any kind of time/career sensitivity, I think it's a reasonable idea to go this way. If however you're looking to make a career move with it, then you may want to jump straight in to something deeper.

I personally haven't gone much beyond Access as it's suited my career path to date. I've designed quite a few database applications for myself and customers, and at the moment instead of developing the database side of things, I'm looking more towards php instead.

 

[apathy_next2]

Thanks for the fast replies.
I've been following that video and it did start me with SQL server express so I do have that going.
I do want to proceed further and it seems like SQL will be good for me as it will get me in the world of writing code and I'd actually be building software that I can use myself.

With SQL sever express will I be able to build a standalone database that I can take with me to another computer on the go via a flash drive? Similar to an access db?

Any other good websites or classes to use as a good resource?
I've been looking at codeacademy.

 

[mikeymikec]

With SQL sever express will I be able to build a standalone database that I can take with me to another computer on the go via a flash drive? Similar to an access db?

I think you need to dump/export the db first, whereas with Access it's just a file, and as long as you close Access first you can do what you like with the file.

The same might apply to SQLSE, but I've never specifically tried that with its predecessor MSDE.

 

[sao123]

Access isn't a good place to learn to program.
Access is a database for people who don't WANT to program... (everything is done by Wizards and Macros. - Tables/Queries/Reports/etc. )

Download SQL Server Express and Visual Studio Community.

 

[mikeymikec]

Access isn't a good place to learn to program.
Access is a database for people who don't WANT to program... (everything is done by Wizards and Macros. - Tables/Queries/Reports/etc. )

You can do it that way with Access, you don't have to do it that way.

 

[Ken g6]

With SQL sever express will I be able to build a standalone database that I can take with me to another computer on the go via a flash drive? Similar to an access db?

SQLite is good for that. If you want to be really portable, you can access it via the SQLite Manager add-on in Portable Firefox.

 

[DaveSimmons]

We have one 15-year old Access database that is a pain to work with. Everything else in the company is in web-based SQL-based databases either on Amazon or a dedicated hosted server. The only reason we haven't moved it to AWS is lack of developer time.

I think starting with straight SQL is more useful since Access seems like more of a legacy product these days. I'd guess there is little new development done with it and a lot of migration away from it.

 

[KentState]

Access will teach you the bad way to do everything. It's meant for business users to write horrible application that one day have to be rewritten by IT as it starts to scalability and reliability issues.

 

[adamantine.me]

SQL will be far more valuable to learn.

 

[purbeast0]

I wouldn't recommend Access for anything - not to learn with and not to use in an actual solution.

 

[PricklyPete]

I wouldn't recommend Access for anything - not to learn with and not to use in an actual solution.

This.

 

[mxnerd]

MS SQL Server / Express is not portable, you have to install it.

If you want your app & database run from USB flash drive, you better use USB WAMP stack which includes MySQL.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=pDdpWuirLJC-jwPdoIhY&q=portable+WAMP

 

[razel]

Just for clarity. You're looking at two main parts that people often refer to as SQL.

There is the database server itself. Microsoft SQL Server (Express, which I think is still free), Oracle, and MySQL are what most people are probably referring to. Getting a proper failsafe database server for enterprise running and being an admin for it is a job in itself. That contains all the data you want to get.

After that is the SQL query language which I assume is what you want to learn. As long as the database supports SQL queries, then what you use to develop is independent of the database server. Yes, you can use Access, Excel, XML and JSON files as a database. Creation of XML and JSON files from a SQL db are what I recommend for you starting off. It's used everywhere. Perhaps for a startup they'll use MySQL (WordPress sites), but in our office it's Oracle and MS SQL Server.

I suppose the simplest would be Access. Open the example Access files and eventually you'll reach a SQL window where you can begin querying. The other options above require more setup before you can even begin typing SQL queries.

 

[KIAman]

Like others have mentioned here already, there is a difference between SQL and RDBMS. It's going to be very hard for you to learn SQL isolated from the underlying RDMBS you choose to to use.

If I were you and I was just starting out and wanted to learn a little about SQL, without a huge cost overhead, download http://sqlitebrowser.org/ . This tool will give you both GUI and commandline tools to manipulate the database. Use https://sqlite.org/docs.html for some documentation on sqlite.

Also note, once you get a good grasp on SQL and DBs in general, you'll find most RDBMS share a lot of similar functionality.

As a plus, if you get into mobile app programming, sqlite works well for their local db.

 

[Cogman]

One more vote for SQLite. If you want to learn how to write SQL it is a nice little DB that is pretty easy to dive into and integrates with everything.

As soon as you start wanting more than 1 users of the DB (IE, you need a server), I would suggest looking at a "real" solution. Postgres and MySQL are probably the most popular free DBs out there. Paid, I think SQL Server and Oracle are the front runners. I would chose my DB in that order, Postgres, MySQL, SQL Server, and if I'm desperate, Oracle.

At work, I use SQL Server extensively.

At this point, I would probably stay away from NoSQL solutions. But that is probably just me being far more familiar with SQL dbs. Eventual consistency is a beast to work around, and I wouldn't really wish it on anyone. You can go a long way with plain-ole sql.

 

[YuliApp]

sqlite for small projects and MS SQL Server for anything serious.

Access is not a bad tool if you know when to stop, what most people do not know. I would just peek into it if you need it for your CV, otherwise stay away.