Starting WoW...

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ggnl
FYI, it takes 8 seconds to go out of combat. Imp. gouge lasts 5.5 seconds, so theres always a 2.5 second window (at least) to keep them from restealthing.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:In_combat
In PvP, a player will leave combat if they have not attacked or been attacked for 5 seconds, or all the enemy characters that have attacked you are killed.

I'm not sure why I've always seen 6 seconds though. Maybe I'll have to do some testing to see exact timing. I guess you could assume that the 5 second timer starts from when the global cooldown is up (so therefore gouge would only be a theoretical 4.5).

Originally posted by: ggnl
With that said, elemental/resto shamans are by far the easiest class for rogues. After they blow nature's switness they can count on getting shut down every time they try to cast with either gouge or kick.

I'd probably have to agree with that, although Resto Shamans are probably hard if they have decent gear. They tend to last for a long time as Earth Shield can help them stay alive for awhile. Earth Shield, even with my Shaman's crummy gear, can heal him for ~400-500 each time. If an elemental shaman catches you off guard, you're usually done for unless you have a bit of health to withstand the first couple of attacks... or you run away :laugh:. But that's kind of true for any class vs an exposed rogue.

I do know some pretty good Shamans that could probably beat a good majority of the rogues out there.

Originally posted by: ggnl
On the other hand, rogues have real trouble with a lot of classes. Warriors and feral druids have a pretty distinct advantage. Hunters and pallies are also pretty even. Shadow priests are pretty much universally uber. Playing a rogue in group pvp means picking your target very carefully.

Really you've got to choose almost any PVP fight carefully and that's what makes a rogue a rogue. I know when I was on Lightning's Blade (PVP), I'd literally run a fight through my head to guesstimate what the outcome would be. This was mainly important in 1vsN fights (where I was the '1').

Warriors are really only decent to fight if you bleed kite them, which takes some time to learn how to do.

Druids... the best way I've seen to fight them is the beat-the-crap-out-of-them-until-you-can-catch-them-out-of-a-high-armored-form technique. You can try bleed kiting them too to help you achieve this. The easiest way for them to remove the crippling is by shapeshifting and you may be able to catch them out of stealth this way. Also be careful of druids that try to be stealthier than rogues. With Master of Subtlety, they aren't as big of an issue. I've never seen it as I don't PVP much on the rogue anymore, but theoretically shapeshifting should be able to fail to remove poisons given that you have Vile Poisons. I know I've had Blazing Speed fail to remove crippling poison before and that states the same "Removes all movement impairing effects."

Hunters are somewhat of a situational fight but one of the big things is to not get caught being kited... you will not win that way.

Paladins... they seem to be more of a pain if they're protection than anything. They simply don't die! :Q

We won't even go into those shadow casting class >_>.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: hungfarover
Try and use the keyboard to activate skills rather than clicking them with the mouse. If you do this from the get-to and you decide to stick with the game you'll be a lot better off in the long run.

Not necessary. I can click on any button on my bar before the global cooldown even runs out on the previous button that I clicked on. This comes from literally memorizing the exact position of buttons combined with the space between buttons. If you really want to screw me over while playing, simple enlarge or shrink my bars .

Clicking may be viable in PvE but you're not going to be able to hang in high-level PvP if you don't have all your abilities hotkeyed. That's just the way it is. It's not opinion it's fact.

 

[CKent]

Ah, a rogue has to have his cooldowns up and/or be specced prep to stunlock. Gee, well that makes it fair. I'll just go spec "I-Win" now... oh wait, I can't. I'm not a rogue. Nevermind then, I'll go to my trainer and train all the short "I-Win" cooldown abilities... oh crap, not again...

I'm aware of how eb works, as I said it's beside the point, since the reason to pull a rogue out of stealth is to attack him and I cannot do that while stunned.

I complain about CC (including stuns, fears, etc.) because my class is the only one in the game without at least 3, save pallies who have 2. Shamans have none. Shamans also have no escape abilities. I don't expect to spam nukes and win, but there's really only so much you can do when even a priest can stunlock you to death with a lucky series of procs - I've had it happen. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

But man, being told I'm unskilled by a clicker / keyboard turner... /sigh

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CKent
Ah, a rogue has to have his cooldowns up and/or be specced prep to stunlock. Gee, well that makes it fair. I'll just go spec "I-Win" now... oh wait, I can't. I'm not a rogue. Nevermind then, I'll go to my trainer and train all the short "I-Win" cooldown abilities... oh crap, not again...

Yeah... your point? You're just being bitter and it sounds more and more like you think you should be able to defeat every class in the game. People like that piss me off, because all they do is whine and complain yet you ask for some action, and they just make more excuses. Turns out, they tend to just suck in the first place.

Originally posted by: CKent
I'm aware of how eb works, as I said it's beside the point, since the reason to pull a rogue out of stealth is to attack him and I cannot do that while stunned.

The point is you do it BEFORE they get you. Believe it or not, sometimes you know a rogue is there. Sure, sometimes they catch you by surprise (hence one of the class' elements), but sometimes you can easily catch them off with a magma totem or the initial pulse from earthbind.

Originally posted by: CKent
I complain about CC (including stuns, fears, etc.) because my class is the only one in the game without at least 3, save pallies who have 2. Shamans have none. Shamans also have no escape abilities. I don't expect to spam nukes and win, but there's really only so much you can do when even a priest can stunlock you to death with a lucky series of procs - I've had it happen. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Paladins have a single stun on a 1 minute cooldown (lowered to.. I think 40 seconds via talents?) They have nothing else to slow people down. Shamans have slowing moves instead (two actually, frost shock and earthbind totem with an 8 second and 15 sec). Paladins have an additional CC available via talents (Repentance) which is similar to a rogue's gouge. You think warriors might want to complain? They only have five CC effects and three are talents (Concussion Blow, Piercing Howl and Improved Revenge), one of those talents is a percentage on hit (Improved Revenge), two are protection talents, one is a fury talent, one of the normal moves is worthless for actually keeping someone at bay (note that a lot of warriors tend to have deep wounds and the bleed effect will remove Intimidating Shout). So effectively, the only decent CC that warriors have is Hamstring. This can be boosted by Improved Hamstring (25 point arms talent) as well. The big CC classes, I'd say, are rogues and mages. These two classes also tend to die easily if you can get to them.

Originally posted by: CKent
But man, being told I'm unskilled by a clicker / keyboard turner... /sigh

I use my keyboard to strafe, not turn. But If you think you're better than me, go on the PTR like I said and beat me. I'll even not use my "super duper unfair rogue cooldowns," my non-PVP centric mutilate build and my crappy gear.

Originally posted by: hungfarover
Clicking may be viable in PvE but you're not going to be able to hang in high-level PvP if you don't have all your abilities hotkeyed. That's just the way it is. It's not opinion it's fact.

If I can move my mouse to the respective button before my global cooldown is even up, where's the delay? I can still move just fine and still select targets. If I need to, I can also use hot keys. As far as I see it, I am showing that there's no slowdown in my movements, in my spell use, etc... but your opinion is simply being based on "zomg mousers FTL!!!!" that tends to come from PVP'ers. Personally, I'd actually see buttons on the mouse being faster than keyboard hot keys and I'd rather put my skills that require fast reaction there rather than anywhere else.

Let me reiterate that it's not impossible to use the mouse effectively. Acting is still second to reacting. 'cause no matter how fast a player is, if they never get the notion to act, they won't do anything.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
If I can move my mouse to the respective button before my global cooldown is even up, where's the delay? I can still move just fine and still select targets. If I need to, I can also use hot keys. As far as I see it, I am showing that there's no slowdown in my movements, in my spell use, etc... but your opinion is simply being based on "zomg mousers FTL!!!!" that tends to come from PVP'ers. Personally, I'd actually see buttons on the mouse being faster than keyboard hot keys and I'd rather put my skills that require fast reaction there rather than anywhere else.

Let me reiterate that it's not impossible to use the mouse effectively. Acting is still second to reacting. 'cause no matter how fast a player is, if they never get the notion to act, they won't do anything.

If you're successful with clicking, more power to you.

I'm just speaking from the point of a former clicker who's game improved dramatically after I cleaned up my UI and went to having everything hotkeyed.

I recommend the OP try both then decide what he likes best.

 

[CKent]

I don't want easy mode vs. every class in the game. I understand that some fights will be biased toward me (feral druids... lol) and some against me. The problem with rogues is I don't stand a chance. I'm killed while stunned the entire time. I may as well try to solo Gruul. There's a huge difference between wanting god mode and wanting to increase my odds of success by playing well. But I have no opportunity to play well when I'm stunned 100-0. Your black & white thinking is sadly naive and closeminded. It reminds me of Gee Dubya's "with us or against us" diatribe.

Why on earth would I want to duel you on the ptr? Is your epeen really this important to you? You play the most godly overpowered class in the game and I play one which is gimped to hell and back. You'd stun me 100-0 and what, claim skill? Come off it.

If I knock a rogue out of stealth, he just has to gouge, restealth and CS me while EB is still on cooldown. Or he can vanish. Or if vanish is down, he can prep + vanish. Or he can start the stunlock with a few CP KS and then gouge + restealth, etc. It seems the only rogues who have trouble stunlocking are the ones who need to l2p. Skilled rogues are well aware of how overpowered the class is. It's the noobie "INVIZABUL N1NJAZ!11111" who think they can just burst dps everyone down and don't bother stunlocking. You keybind, so I have trouble assuming you're the forumer.

Paladins have HoJ and repentance. Aside from shamans, they're the only class without 3+ forms of cc/stuns/fears/etc as they have 2 (shamans have none). But they make up for it with lolbubble and blessings. And then they have the additional survivability afforded them by plate, of which many pieces have both paladin healing stats and +def rating, shield block, etc. I'm not talking spec, just counting total CC's available. Because no matter how a shaman specs, he has none. Shamans are a sitting-duck class because of this, and you know it.

Defend clicking all you want. You could be the most skilled person in the world, and if you click you could still be much better by keybinding. Further, the time it takes you to click negates whatever benefit you gain from skill... thought the fact you deny rogue overpoweredness makes me question your skill, as does your clicking. Put your average Joe in a Ferrari and Michael Schumacher in a Camry and the race will be pretty even. In WoW, the average Joe who plays a Ferrari (rogue) too often thinks Ferraris are no faster than Camrys due to this. It's half depressing, half funny, half frustrating.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: hungfarover
If you're successful with clicking, more power to you.

I'm just speaking from the point of a former clicker who's game improved dramatically after I cleaned up my UI and went to having everything hotkeyed.

I recommend the OP try both then decide what he likes best.

Oh don't get me wrong, I know it can be quite quick and if WoW didn't have the global cooldown on most abilities, hot keying would be the way to go as I doubt I could still move my mouse fast enough. Really some of the reasons why it's efficient is the ordering (as you mentioned, cleaning up the UI) of my buttons and how big they are. I use an 85% size which makes them smaller so there's less distance to travel to get to another button. Remember how I mentioned that resizing my buttons could mess me up? When I originally switched to 85% size, I kept missing all of my moves, because I'd literally be clicking on the wrong move. I just get used to the distances.

Although one problem I still have is I tend to organize my bars for a specific task... i.e. PVE rather than PVP. When I went to PVP on my mage once, I had a hell of a time trying to counterspell, because I don't use counterspell often in PVE, so it's probably... second row key '7' (i.e. the middle of the second row), but never really using it means I could never remember where it was. I missed so many counterspells because of that. In a PVP-centric layout, counterspell would be much closer to the left (i.e. '1' to '4').

Another thing is WoW is somewhat about quick movement and I came from a semi-FPS background before World of Warcraft and I think anyone would agree that FPS games require much faster movements than WoW. Although WoW screwed up my FPS control as I can't use WASD anymore... I keep using WQSE . When I was trying the Lost Planet demo, I remapped my keys to those.

Originally posted by: CKent
I don't want easy mode vs. every class in the game. I understand that some fights will be biased toward me (feral druids... lol) and some against me. The problem with rogues is I don't stand a chance. I'm killed while stunned the entire time. I may as well try to solo Gruul. There's a huge difference between wanting god mode and wanting to increase my odds of success by playing well. But I have no opportunity to play well when I'm stunned 100-0. Your black & white thinking is sadly naive and closeminded. It reminds me of Gee Dubya's "with us or against us" diatribe.

You think a rogue has a chance when he's caught out in the open for whatever reason? Do I complain that just about any class could destroy a rogue caught out of stealth before the Burning Crusade? Thankfully, we have Cloak of Shadows now that helps a bit against something like that.

It isn't black and white thinking, it's being annoyed with people complaining that their class is weak against another. These are also the same people that ONLY PLAY ONE CLASS. Start playing every class in higher levels and you'll learn just how fun they all are and all the nice little quirks that everyone has. Oh and before you go on and on, yes, I know you have a rogue.

Originally posted by: CKent
Why on earth would I want to duel you on the ptr? Is your epeen really this important to you? You play the most godly overpowered class in the game and I play one which is gimped to hell and back. You'd stun me 100-0 and what, claim skill? Come off it.

Because you mock my clicking like I'm inferior. If me being a "lame clicker" is so bad, you should be able to beat me, right?

Originally posted by: CKent
If I knock a rogue out of stealth, he just has to gouge, restealth and CS me while EB is still on cooldown. Or he can vanish. Or if vanish is down, he can prep + vanish. Or he can start the stunlock with a few CP KS and then gouge + restealth, etc. It seems the only rogues who have trouble stunlocking are the ones who need to l2p. Skilled rogues are well aware of how overpowered the class is. It's the noobie "INVIZABUL N1NJAZ!11111" who think they can just burst dps everyone down and don't bother stunlocking. You keybind, so I have trouble assuming you're the forumer.

I don't think you even read what I wrote, YOU DON'T STAND FRICKEN STILL LIKE A MORON SAYING, "HEY ROGUE, COME GET ME!!" You stay moving and drop the earthbind after calculating where the rogue is at. The idea is to make it so the rogue cannot simply gouge you afterward and drop a flame tongue totem or a magma totem ( if you're worried about turning and using flame shock, those two will keep them in combat well enough even if you get gouged). You play a rogue, so I'm sure you know how rogues act when targeting their "prey." Use all of your knowledge to your advantage, it's the best reason to play multiple classes.

Originally posted by: CKent
Paladins have HoJ and repentance. Aside from shamans, they're the only class without 3+ forms of cc/stuns/fears/etc as they have 2 (shamans have none). But they make up for it with lolbubble and blessings. And then they have the additional survivability afforded them by plate, of which many pieces have both paladin healing stats and +def rating, shield block, etc. I'm not talking spec, just counting total CC's available. Because no matter how a shaman specs, he has none. Shamans are a sitting-duck class because of this, and you know it.

Repentance is a talent in Retribution, that's why I don't count it, because without being specced into ret, you don't have it. Shamans have CC's available to them... the concept of a CC isn't just a stun or a fear... it includes anything that gives you control over your opponent. If you think Shamans are completely bad... how was my Shaman able to kite elite mobs and beat them without a problem? I guess I must have been imagining that CC or something.

Originally posted by: CKent
Defend clicking all you want. You could be the most skilled person in the world, and if you click you could still be much better by keybinding. Further, the time it takes you to click negates whatever benefit you gain from skill... thought the fact you deny rogue overpoweredness makes me question your skill, as does your clicking. Put your average Joe in a Ferrari and Michael Schumacher in a Camry and the race will be pretty even. In WoW, the average Joe who plays a Ferrari (rogue) too often thinks Ferraris are no faster than Camrys due to this. It's half depressing, half funny, half frustrating.

You have showed nothing to prove why I can't be just as good. I've mentioned the fact that global cooldowns make it so successive key presses are impossible as the second action will not go through. So as long as I can move easily, which I can, and activate my commands... I see nothing to show why I can't be just as efficient. You've done nothing other than say, "well keybinding is most certainly better!" The time it takes me to click? You mean essentially the time that's well within the global cooldown so it doesn't matter anyway? C'mon, you're grasping at straws here.

You're more than welcome to think I suck. I really don't care that much (although I will still request a duel ). I know how good I am, and that's fine with me. I also realize that my class has innate issues that make it what it is and I'm fine with that. I know if I get hit when I'm not stealthed, my chances of winning are severely reduced (it's still possible to win, but chances are definitely much lower). You could always go and ask my old server how decent of a player I am if you're really interested? Lightning's Blade realm forums... go go go!

 

[Fingolfin269]

Why do threads where someone is asking for advice on starting WoW always end up being a discussion on 'My PvP kung fu > you'?

 

[CKent]

I've played a rogue main at 60 for 6 monhts Also a 60 hunter, 46 priest, 40 druid so far. Mage just hit 37.

A rogue caught out in the open needs to vanish or stealth, der ;p

A chimp playing a rogue could beat anyone but an ms warrior or maybe a bear. Maybe not a resto shammy either, since the chimp wouldn't use wound poison.

I can't move while stunned. Work on your stunlocking imo.

I'm not counting specced stuns, I'm counting total stuns.

Clicking is slower because you must move your mouse to your ability while your fingers are right over the keys you should have keybound. You also can't maneuver your character as well while clicking, granted this is more important for some classes than others. Jumping while running away, turning in midair and casting a frost shock, before turning back around and landing - moving away from your opponent the entire time - is a good example. Hunters probably greatly benefit from it as well.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Why do threads where someone is asking for advice on starting WoW always end up being a discussion on 'My PvP kung fu > you'?

Actually the discussion is about class imbalances, but mockery of being a "clicker" forces one to show that being a "clicker" isn't so inefficient through sheer skill. I couldn't care less about PVP, I absolutely hate PVP after doing it so much on my priest. WoW had one of the worst implementations of PVP that was "enforced" by how horrible the players are (Alliance by the way). PVP tends to only be exciting in WoW if you win in a hard situation or you end up in an epic 1v1 battle. I remember having some good ones with my priest... especially versus this one rogue that always gunned for me in BGs. I was farming mobs in AV (great money before they removed most of the mobs) and the rogue attacked me... yeah, he learned the hard way that he should've rolled Undead . Then there was my mage at level 52 that defeated a 60 rogue. Surprising... I wonder how I defeated such an overpowered class . Hey, my rogue even defeated a rogue... strange, how does one Unstoppable Force stop another Unstoppable Force. Should they use The Immovable Object?

EDIT:

Originally posted by: CKent
I've played a rogue main at 60 for 6 monhts Also a 60 hunter, 46 priest, 40 druid so far. Mage just hit 37.

I've known rogues that've played for awhile and still aren't any good. I told a friend how to do the one elite Forge Camp quest in Blade's Edge Mountain where you summon the demon and kill her. I solo'd this pretty easily... he on the other hand couldn't do it. Note that I was mutilate and eventually you run out of stuns to use, 'cause you kind of can't really Vanish -> Cheapshot a mob too easily. They tend to run back to where you originally found them . Believe it or not, rogues do take some skill to play correctly and play well in certain spots.

Originally posted by: CKent
A rogue caught out in the open needs to vanish or stealth, der ;p

Can't Vanish with a DoT on you, that is unless it's a magic-oriented (note, not classified as Magic but orienting from a spell) and you can remove it with Cloak of Shadows. The only rogue that can remove any DoT is a Dwarf Rogue using Stoneform (can remove Serpent Sting, Rend, Rupture, Deadly Poison and Deep Wounds). But then again, you just wasted two cooldowns (possibly more) to get away from someone.

Originally posted by: CKent
A chimp playing a rogue could beat anyone but an ms warrior or maybe a bear. Maybe not a resto shammy either, since the chimp wouldn't use wound poison.

I'd like to see a chimp beat a Frost Mage . Cloak of Shadows is worthless against them as (if they wanted to) they can just be all ICEBLOCKLOLZ.

Originally posted by: CKent
I can't move while stunned. Work on your stunlocking imo.

I have no problems stun locking and in fact, I don't use timing bars and I still do it correctly. Only noobs need timing bars . I'm referring to how I've defeated rogues on my Shaman. The SAME ideas are used when fighting against a rogue as a mage and a priest (two other classes that I've PVP'd with a lot). If you know a rogue is around, you don't stand there and wait for him! Unfortunately for an elemental shaman, they tend to stand around... a lot. Hell, on my priest, all I do is kite rogues with Shadow Word: Pain... it's fun for the whole family! The best part is when the rogue follows me and just keeps having his life tick away :laugh:.

Originally posted by: CKent
I'm not counting specced stuns, I'm counting total stuns.

What's the point then? Not all Paladins you'll run into have both. I prefer to count things you either know someone will have or pretty much all of them have (i.e. a very popular spec). I find protection to be just as popular as retribution in PVP.

Originally posted by: CKent
Clicking is slower because you must move your mouse to your ability while your fingers are right over the keys you should have keybound. You also can't maneuver your character as well while clicking, granted this is more important for some classes than others. Jumping while running away, turning in midair and casting a frost shock, before turning back around and landing - moving away from your opponent the entire time - is a good example. Hunters probably greatly benefit from it as well.

The only thing that's very hard to do with a mouse is rotating and casting. Everything else is pretty mundane and just as easy as hot keying. But like I said, if I want to, I can just press the associated hot key for a turn-n-cast as my bars are keyed. The reason why your first statement is yet again invalid is that it doesn't apply to WoW. In quite a lot of cases, you have a global cooldown up. Even though a key press could activate this skill faster, it doesn't matter, because you can't cast it yet. One time I may use a key more than a mouse click is when say... Overpower activates but I already used it and the cooldown isn't up yet. Depending on how what my hand's doing, I may use it to hit the overpower key.

I think mousing can sometimes have advantages too. The fact that you don't remove your hand from your mouse is a good thing. When it comes to a fight, my left hand never leaves my movement keys (or may a tiny bit to press a hot key) and my right hand doesn't leave my mouse. Unlike hotkeys, pressing a button further right on the bar (if you use the standard 1 to = bindings) will require you to either move your left hand or take your hand off the mouse. Although, most of my important skills are on the left as mentioned, there are some situational skills (on my warrior) that are on the right. For example, second bar 12th button is Death Wish... 11th button is Battle Shout.

 

[fLum0x]

as far as what to level, dont listen to anyone about what they think you should do. Do 10 minutes of research on each class and then pick the one that sounds the most fun.

rogue = solid dps but not the best with a little bit of crowd control
warrior = tanks and almost necessary in a pvp group for damage
mage = solid burst damage with crowd control...also the most fragil
priest = shadow is strong dps holy is #2 in heals
paladin = you will more than likely be a #1 healer and be holy specced
druid = good healer and very versatile
shaman = decent heal and damage, little survivability if you aren't heal spec'd
warlock = very diverse with damage. use of DOTs and more some decent survivability for a cloth wearer
hunter = very strong ranged dps with little weaknesses right now

Go to wowhead.com and look up the skills/spells and talent trees. find which you like and go for it.

 

[CKent]

What dots doesn't clos remove?

I think you do have problems stunlocking. You keep claiming I should fight a rogue by doing x, y and z - things I can't do while stunned. The fact you suggest doing them shows you don't stunlock very well. Unlike almost every rogue I come across. Maybe if you weren't clicking your skills...

I actually do come across quite a few prot warriors and ret pallies. Spell reflect can really own me when I hit my boom macro (ns + em + trinket + troll racial + chain lightning). Regardless, aside from repenetence being the only offspec stun, every other class' popular pvp specs have 3 or more forms of it.

I can't believe you're still defending clicking, and worse, keyboard turning.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CKent
What dots doesn't clos remove?

Anything that's a bleed.

Originally posted by: CKent
I think you do have problems stunlocking. You keep claiming I should fight a rogue by doing x, y and z - things I can't do while stunned. The fact you suggest doing them shows you don't stunlock very well. Unlike almost every rogue I come across. Maybe if you weren't clicking your skills...

How many times must I repeat myself, I have no problems stunlocking. The idea is what to do if you know a rogue is there or the fact that you don't sit around all willy-nilly. Arena is one of the bigger PVP areas these days and if you're in 2v2 and you only see 1 opponent... guess what... the other one is stealthed/prowling! Like I said, Mr. Kent, I am talking about what I do when I PVP on my Shaman, not what happens when I PVP against Shamans on my Rogue. Although my Shaman is Enhancement, not Elemental. The thing is, I don't see much of a difference here... it's not like enhancement provides much to stop a rogue's stunlock .

Originally posted by: CKent
I actually do come across quite a few prot warriors and ret pallies. Spell reflect can really own me when I hit my boom macro (ns + em + trinket + troll racial + chain lightning). Regardless, aside from repenetence being the only offspec stun, every other class' popular pvp specs have 3 or more forms of it.

Yes, you can spell reflect it, but it's rare to find a warrior that's using a shield... maybe if you're in Warsong and they're the flag runner (not likely over a druid).

Originally posted by: CKent
I can't believe you're still defending clicking, and worse, keyboard turning.

Damn straight I will! You haven't been able to provide a single point that I haven't countered. Also, who the hell says that I keyboard turn? Like I said, I'm a dynamic player... I'm also a lazy player. Most of the time, I sit there clicking it up, because it's easier and I'm lazy. If I absolutely need to, I can switch to keys. I still can beat people in PVP while clicking though .

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Why do threads where someone is asking for advice on starting WoW always end up being a discussion on 'My PvP kung fu > you'?

Usually because there are fundamental playstyle differences learned at very early levels that influence the advice given in the thread.

At least here @ Anandtech most of the banter is good-natured. The official WoW boards are an absolute disaster.

 

[Doboji]

Whatever you do as a newb... pick a hybrid class of some kind... they are:

Druid
Pally
Shaman

These give you the maximum ability to change your spec as you learn what you actually like doing... and they also allow you to solo easily and effectively....

Druid can spec to be : Spellcasting DPS, Combat DPS, Tank, and Healer
Pally can spec to be: Combat DPS, Tank and Healer
Shaman can spec to be: Combat DPS, Spellcasting DPS, Healer

Thats it...

The pure classes - These are superlatives at their position within a group, however they assume the extremes in both play ability, and in gearing...

for example: A well geared well played Pally can tank just as well as most Warriors with the exceptions being the best played and best geared warrior.

In all likelihood you're not going to make it to the extreme end with your first toon.

Mage - Spellcasting DPS only
Warrior - Combat DPS, Tank
Priest - Spellcasting DPS, Healer

The solo classes
Warlock DPS
Hunter DPS
Rogue DPS

These guys can play the whole game, but it's been my experience that your group experience is somewhat limited when in a group... you'll always be a fill in for something else.. Warlock less so than a Hunter.. but you'll never be the primary choice for a raidgroup or party...



-Max

 

[JohnAn2112]

Originally posted by: Doboji
Whatever you do as a newb... pick a hybrid class of some kind... they are:

Druid
Pally
Shaman

These give you the maximum ability to change your spec as you learn what you actually like doing... and they also allow you to solo easily and effectively....

Druid can spec to be : Spellcasting DPS, Combat DPS, Tank, and Healer
Pally can spec to be: Combat DPS, Tank and Healer
Shaman can spec to be: Combat DPS, Spellcasting DPS, Healer

Thats it...

The pure classes - These are superlatives at their position within a group, however they assume the extremes in both play ability, and in gearing...

for example: A well geared well played Pally can tank just as well as most Warriors with the exceptions being the best played and best geared warrior.

In all likelihood you're not going to make it to the extreme end with your first toon.

Mage - Spellcasting DPS only
Warrior - Combat DPS, Tank
Priest - Spellcasting DPS, Healer

The solo classes
Warlock DPS
Hunter DPS

These guys can play the whole game, but it's been my experience that your group experience is somewhat limited when in a group... you'll always be a fill in for something else.. Warlock less so than a Hunter.. but you'll never be the primary choice for a raidgroup or party...

-Max

You forgot rogues in the solo DPS class category.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: JohnAn2112

Originally posted by: Doboji
Whatever you do as a newb... pick a hybrid class of some kind... they are:

Druid
Pally
Shaman

These give you the maximum ability to change your spec as you learn what you actually like doing... and they also allow you to solo easily and effectively....

Druid can spec to be : Spellcasting DPS, Combat DPS, Tank, and Healer
Pally can spec to be: Combat DPS, Tank and Healer
Shaman can spec to be: Combat DPS, Spellcasting DPS, Healer

Thats it...

The pure classes - These are superlatives at their position within a group, however they assume the extremes in both play ability, and in gearing...

for example: A well geared well played Pally can tank just as well as most Warriors with the exceptions being the best played and best geared warrior.

In all likelihood you're not going to make it to the extreme end with your first toon.

Mage - Spellcasting DPS only
Warrior - Combat DPS, Tank
Priest - Spellcasting DPS, Healer

The solo classes
Warlock DPS
Hunter DPS

These guys can play the whole game, but it's been my experience that your group experience is somewhat limited when in a group... you'll always be a fill in for something else.. Warlock less so than a Hunter.. but you'll never be the primary choice for a raidgroup or party...

-Max

You forgot rogues in the solo DPS class category.

You're right... and that's exactly where they go...

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Doboji
Whatever you do as a newb... pick a hybrid class of some kind... they are:

Druid
Pally
Shaman

These give you the maximum ability to change your spec as you learn what you actually like doing... and they also allow you to solo easily and effectively....

Druid can spec to be : Spellcasting DPS, Combat DPS, Tank, and Healer
Pally can spec to be: Combat DPS, Tank and Healer
Shaman can spec to be: Combat DPS, Spellcasting DPS, Healer

Thats it...

The pure classes - These are superlatives at their position within a group, however they assume the extremes in both play ability, and in gearing...

for example: A well geared well played Pally can tank just as well as most Warriors with the exceptions being the best played and best geared warrior.

In all likelihood you're not going to make it to the extreme end with your first toon.

Mage - Spellcasting DPS only
Warrior - Combat DPS, Tank
Priest - Spellcasting DPS, Healer

The solo classes
Warlock DPS
Hunter DPS
Rogue DPS

These guys can play the whole game, but it's been my experience that your group experience is somewhat limited when in a group... you'll always be a fill in for something else.. Warlock less so than a Hunter.. but you'll never be the primary choice for a raidgroup or party...



-Max

lol palys cant DPS

 

[RapidSnail]

This is the biggest dork-fest ever, lol.

 

[CKent]

Only warriors (and some other rogues, but generally only -against- warriors) can cause bleed effects. I already said MS warriors beat rogues. One of 2-3 class/spec combos that actually can.

I come across the occasional prot warrior in battle grounds. Arenas are serious business and most people will respec for them, but a prot warrior with a half hour to kill before a raid, if he wants to farm a bit of honor, is just gonna go in as prot.

Is your shaman 70? The shaman class really hasn't been ferociously nerfed or anything (barring last patch), it's so gimped because it didn't get any of the 61-70 upgrades the other classes all did. It also doesn't benefit from the game mechanic changes when going from 60-70. I'll tell you right now, if you try to enhancement pvp at 70... /mourn

I apologize if I was a bit of a d!ck. I've just been rather frustrated with WoW lately. Getting another class to 70 will on average take 30 days /played, which is 3 months at 40 hours a week... a fulltime job... and all because the developers care so much about raids, and nothing else, that they've let pvp and class balance rot. I've actually cancelled my account. I might get bored and come back, I might not, I dunno. It pisses me off though, and I shouldn't have taken it out on anyone here, especially someone I enjoy chatting WoW with.

Btw, lolclicker

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
This is the biggest dork-fest ever, lol.

Aw, baby feel left out? /soothe /comfort

It's ok, even though you're posting on a tech forum, if you want us to think you're not a geek, we'll pretend you're not

 

[QuantumPion]

If it takes you 30 days played to get to 70 then you are doing something seriously wrong, or wasting a ridiculous amount of time in BG's (which are pretty much pointless except for some occasional fun. There is no point in grinding honor since the rewards aren't very good.)

My druid took me about 14 days played to get from 1 to 70, and I was going slow because I was waiting for a friend who was new to WoW to keep up with me.

 

[QuantumPion]

Also I disagree with rolling a hybrid as your first class. Hybrids require you to learn and be good at completely different skills -- healing/tanking/dps. And hybrids usually have much worse dps, making for slow leveling. Your best bet for a first character would be a hunter or rogue, which are both easy and fun to play for your first guy.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
This is the biggest dork-fest ever, lol.

Nah, it'd be a dork-fest if we argued over who has the biggest bust size... Blood Elf or Night Elf.

Originally posted by: CKent
Is your shaman 70? The shaman class really hasn't been ferociously nerfed or anything (barring last patch), it's so gimped because it didn't get any of the 61-70 upgrades the other classes all did. It also doesn't benefit from the game mechanic changes when going from 60-70. I'll tell you right now, if you try to enhancement pvp at 70... /mourn

He's 62.9-ish at the moment. I was originally leveling him and my mage at the same time (quite an odd combo, I think I should repsec the mage to Frost, so my shaman can take out caster elites and my mage can take out kite-able melee elites), but once I hit Zangarmarsh, I literally could not play anymore. I switched over to my warrior+priest combo just to try it out and now they're 68.

Originally posted by: CKent
I apologize if I was a bit of a d!ck. I've just been rather frustrated with WoW lately. Getting another class to 70 will on average take 30 days /played, which is 3 months at 40 hours a week... a fulltime job... and all because the developers care so much about raids, and nothing else, that they've let pvp and class balance rot. I've actually cancelled my account. I might get bored and come back, I might not, I dunno. It pisses me off though, and I shouldn't have taken it out on anyone here, especially someone I enjoy chatting WoW with.

A lot of people tend to get annoyed with constantly being beat by one class. It can make the game seem so much worse, because it puts you in a state of knowing that no matter what you do or really how good you are, there's no way you can overcome the hurdle. It's not a good feeling and especially in WoW where the game tries to focus on the quick gratification. Sometimes it's hard to literally set in your mind that A > B no matter how nice B is. The difference a lot of people have when it comes to their class vs rogues is that if a rogue comes across a character they don't want to fight, they can just not fight them. The biggest caveat is choosing your fights, which no other class really gets the luxury of. Shadowmeld can kind of help with this if you just notice a guy and hide until they leave.

I've been contemplating making a 2v2 Arena team with just myself (warrior+priest) and calling it "ONE MAN SHOW." Problem is, I'd really really like my priest to be a Night Elf for this (keeping myself hidden can be a huge benefit when I have to control both characters) but I really have no desire to roll another priest just for this .

Originally posted by: CKent
Btw, lolclicker

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Also I disagree with rolling a hybrid as your first class. Hybrids require you to learn and be good at completely different skills -- healing/tanking/dps. And hybrids usually have much worse dps, making for slow leveling. Your best bet for a first character would be a hunter or rogue, which are both easy and fun to play for your first guy.

I agree with this. Hybrids can be nice because you can fill multiple roles, but these classes usually aren't the easiest to get the hang of. Although, every class has fancy techniques that you can do that make them stronger .

 

[MemoryInAGarden]

I'm not sure that now is a good time to be starting WoW. I've played since 2004 and have basically stopped playing over the last two months, and not for personal reasons.

The attunements for everything except Karazhan, an intro 10 man raid, were overkill. For the first real 25 man raid, you had to kill the final boss of the 10 man raid, and a 25 man, "in and out" type of boss. For the next big 25 man raid, you had to grind revered with most of the 5 man instance factions, which can be a good ten runs within a faction itself, do a long quest line in Shadowmoon Valley, then run four 5 man dungeons on "heroic" difficulty," then kill a very difficult 25 man boss, which no one on my server killed before the content was nerfed. This blocked out all but the very hardcore, and until patch 2.1, a good three months after TBC release, no one on my server had entered the equivalent of level 70 Molten Core. Combined with farming requirements of at least an hour per day for serious raiding, raiding pretty much died on Skywall.

The attunement process for those first two 25 man instances has been removed, and the content reduced in difficulty as to be more accessible. But this is too little, too late for a lot of us who have real lives or simply don't want to sit in front of the PC all day, running in circles fighting over herb nodes. Honestly, WoW seems to be past the midpoint of its life cycle, and on the decline.