Stealing Electricity from other planets?

supiammike

Member
Jul 14, 2002
163
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0
Image a planet full of windmills. Take an electric rocket ship with a giant battery to that planet and just make sure the trip there and the trip back uses less energy than is taken from the other planets windmill battery ... or what about the same thing but solar panels
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Sure, if you can pony up the initial few $billion to get all the windmills/panels to that planet .
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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Take an electric rocket ship with a giant battery

why not just use a really long extension cord
 

imgod2u

Senior member
Sep 16, 2000
993
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0
Even if we just put a satellite in orbit (outside the Earth's atmosphere) to collect that energy, there'd still be the little problem of getting that power to Earth. That, I think, is the main problem. There are plenty of sources of energy outside the Earth, but how do we get it here? I can't imagine there are extension cords that long.
 

supiammike

Member
Jul 14, 2002
163
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0
since planets spin long extension cords is a stupid idea... (wouldnt they mess up coming in and out of orbits too?

the big rocket idea is so important.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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If the technology and resources existed to do that, it would still be easier to put giant solar panels in geosync orbit and beam power down to collectors via maser.
 

imgod2u

Senior member
Sep 16, 2000
993
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0
It's technically feasible to do that. Have the satellite in geosynchronous orbit and beam down the energy via a microwave or UV laser. Have a collector somewhere in the remote desert next to a major city. Keep that airspace clear of planes
You'd also have to pick a desert area where there's very little storms/clouds. Preferably in an isolated valley area. The energy collected from a satellite in orbit would be incredible and well worth the cost considering it's practically infinite. The only thing is the initial investment.
 

Mingon

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2000
3,012
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Space debris is a problem with solar panels in geosynchronus orbit iirc
 

imgod2u

Senior member
Sep 16, 2000
993
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I wouldn't say so. In orbit there's probably very little debris. A few particles per cubic meter. As for beaming down the energy being interfered with, just choose a wavelength of photons that don't interact as much with the air.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: imgod2u
Even if we just put a satellite in orbit (outside the Earth's atmosphere) to collect that energy, there'd still be the little problem of getting that power to Earth. That, I think, is the main problem. There are plenty of sources of energy outside the Earth, but how do we get it here? I can't imagine there are extension cords that long.
The other problem is, what if the beam becomes misaligned, maybe from a freak asteroid impact on the satellite, or a misfired thruster. That's a lot of microwave radiation (or whatever the beam would be) blasting something other than a collector.

Originally posted by: imgod2u
I wouldn't say so. In orbit there's probably very little debris. A few particles per cubic meter. As for beaming down the energy being interfered with, just choose a wavelength of photons that don't interact as much with the air.
Yes, there's debris up there, quite a bit of it actually - and it can be expensive. A lot of it is very tiny, but still dangerous. A tiny piece of paint can put a microscopic crater in a shuttle's windows, which costs a lot to replace, like $50,000 according to a book I read. It's stuff like that too - paint flecks, pieces of old or failed satellites, dust.
Link


Image a planet full of windmills. Take an electric rocket ship with a giant battery to that planet and just make sure the trip there and the trip back uses less energy than is taken from the other planets windmill battery ... or what about the same thing but solar panels
An electric rocket? Maybe some kind of automated thing, with the ability to be slingshotted out of Earth's gravity - I just don't see how you can launch a rocket with electricity alone. Maybe some kind of electrical induction engine, or something that could use a powerful (like, unbelievably inefficient) magnetic drive to pull air in...that would require simply incredible amounts of power. Plus, there would need to be a really good way of storing the electrons. Current methods involve chemical reactions - there's no way of just sticking electrons into a container and carrying them around like that. You could probably use some kind of magnetic containment field, but that would also need a lot of energy just to maintain containment.
A beam of energy from one planet to another would just be next to impossible to keep aligned - two different orbits to deal with, varying rotations...
What we need to do is develop more efficient solar conversion technologies; current methods are quite inefficient. And then there's the problem again of how to store a LOT of electricity for things like night, or heavy snowstorms that would prevent light from getting to the panels (assuming they're on the ground, satellites would require still further research) for extended periods.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
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What about putting the windmills and solar panels on our own planet, and leaving out the electric rocket, extension cords and masers?
 

supiammike

Member
Jul 14, 2002
163
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0
have u ever seen how much space feilds of windmills take up?

and im pretty sure i was not talking about something for 2003...
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: supiammike
have u ever seen how much space feilds of windmills take up?

and im pretty sure i was not talking about something for 2003...

Well, depends on how far into the future we're talking. By the time our technology could permit us to do the whole windmill/solar panel thing on other planets, we could have stable, efficient fusion reactors, or heck, even matter/antimatter reactors feeding electricity or high-energy plasma directly to people's homes.
 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,157
0
0
unless we can mine anti-matter from somewhere, then anti-matter is not an energy source, only energy storage device. It takes the same amount of energy to create anti-matter as it takes to destroy it.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
I think that the future in power lies in fusion. Think about it, if we get fusion advanced enough we could use the wastes from the Fision reactors and a power supply. Of corse there is no free lunch, that is why I suspect the the fision and fusion matter would gradually degrade into other elements that are unfus-fisionable (is that a word??). of coarse if we get the point where we can use fision wastes as fusion fuels, I suspect that we will be able to manufacture our own elements with a highly advanced fusion and fision reactions. BTW, have they proven that mater and energy are interchangable but not destroyable (E=mc^2?). If so when can I expect a StarTrek holodeck in my own house . Be awsome play counter-strike and Unreal like that, of course without the pain.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: Cogman
I think that the future in power lies in fusion. Think about it, if we get fusion advanced enough we could use the wastes from the Fision reactors and a power supply. Of corse there is no free lunch, that is why I suspect the the fision and fusion matter would gradually degrade into other elements that are unfus-fisionable (is that a word??). of coarse if we get the point where we can use fision wastes as fusion fuels, I suspect that we will be able to manufacture our own elements with a highly advanced fusion and fision reactions. BTW, have they proven that mater and energy are interchangable but not destroyable (E=mc^2?). If so when can I expect a StarTrek holodeck in my own house . Be awsome play counter-strike and Unreal like that, of course without the pain.

We've got enough trouble producing the energy to fuse hydrogen atoms; wouldn't we need considerably greater energies to smash together the much heavier products of nuclear fission? That's why stars die out - hydrogen is easier to fuse together than heavier atoms. The star will continue to "burn" heavier elements, but depending on its size, the thermal pressure keeping the star stablized against its own gravity weakens to a point when the star collapses on itself, after first shedding its outer layers in a massive outward blast. If the star is small enough, you get a white dwarf star. If it's huge, you get a black hole.
So seeing how stars can't use stuff much heavier than helium for sustained fusion, I doubt that anything as heavy as strontium-90, or cesium would be at all feasible to fuse as an energy source. Plus, that's not all you get in a fission reaction; atoms heavier than uranium can be produced - elements such as plutonium, which is very dangerous by itself.
So while it doesn't seem likely that we'll ever be able to fuse fission products, fusion of hydrogen is a much more attractive prospect. It's a very abundant element, and I don't think that the products of fusion reactions are anywhere near as dangerous as those of fission. Now the problem is that we need to make fusion reactions that can actually produce power output that is considerably more than what is needed to sustain the reaction.
 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,157
0
0
Iron is the magic element. Anything lower than iron is fusable with a net energy gain. Anything higher is fissionable with a net energy gain. However, in the end, all your going to be left with is some very radioactive iron which you cant do much with.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: supiammike
have u ever seen how much space feilds of windmills take up?

and im pretty sure i was not talking about something for 2003...

Well, depends on how far into the future we're talking. By the time our technology could permit us to do the whole windmill/solar panel thing on other planets, we could have stable, efficient fusion reactors, or heck, even matter/antimatter reactors feeding electricity or high-energy plasma directly to people's homes.

I'm sure that if people used the area, or even a small part of the area of their roofs for solar power generation - the planet as a whole could save a huge amount in electrical terms. Sure, it'd be expensive and it may not cover all our needs all the time - but it's possible and it would go a great deal of the way to allevitaing our energy problems. The problem is always "how much" are we willing to pay. This would still be orders of magnitude cheaper than gerneting energy on another planet!

Cheers,

Andy
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
BTW, I dont have a link to it, but a guy here in Idaho converted his power to use solar pannels. Because the Electric company has to play you for the power you put back into the system, they say that he will earn the money spent putting the solar pannels on in ten years. Great way to avoid pescy power outages, but I can see problems with cleaning the stupid things and making sure kids dont throw stones at it. Hail would be especially devestating.
 

karmapunk21

Member
May 1, 2002
28
0
0
acutally i bet we could make one hell of a battery by connecting 2 planets together with some wire (like venus). Both our atmospheres contain some electricity. If we connect the two atmospheres, there will be a voltage difference, and voila! a battery!
 

TDSLB

Member
Jun 19, 2001
178
0
0
Originally posted by: Cogman
BTW, I dont have a link to it, but a guy here in Idaho converted his power to use solar pannels. Because the Electric company has to play you for the power you put back into the system, they say that he will earn the money spent putting the solar pannels on in ten years. Great way to avoid pescy power outages, but I can see problems with cleaning the stupid things and making sure kids dont throw stones at it. Hail would be especially devestating.

I figure if you have the money to put solar panels on your house your going to have those extra few bucks to make a system to protect them.

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
As someone said, antimatter could be an efficient storage medium, but you have to make it first, and all that energy has to come from somewhere. Unless someone comes up with a way to violate parity at will, and convert mass quanties of normal matter to antimatter, this doesnt help with power production. BTW, I am not going to hold my breath for that solution.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,169
1,643
126
I have the solution, It is so simple, Everyone, put a huge windmill on the roof of your house ... or if you live in the desert, use solar panels instead.
 

Alphanos

Member
May 27, 2003
93
0
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7

The other problem is, what if the beam becomes misaligned, maybe from a freak asteroid impact on the satellite, or a misfired thruster. That's a lot of microwave radiation (or whatever the beam would be) blasting something other than a collector.

Haven't you ever played SimCity 2000?
 
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