Steam page shows 3 announcements coming

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I thought only the non gaming stuff was not on Windows 7 for 11.1. MS basically forcing enterprise to upgrade (which if MS doesn't force, they stay on Windows 98 for 2 decades...) and gamers / home users aren't really forced.

I haven't read a breakdown of just exactly what is and isn't included, but I imagine some things ARE game-related but just aren't going to be heavily utilized for awhile.

I think Win7 does have the full Direct3D 11_1 feature set, but I DID see XInput 1.4 is only on Win8, and I think the latest XAudio as well.

For the most part, it's really trivial because it'll be a little while yet before all of the new API versions for 11.1 are used often.
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
302
68
101
first impressions of new controller
http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-has-been-tested-here-are-some-impre-1415579308

so theoretically you could use it like a trackball, reassign it to steer a car like the jog wheel on an old ipod, and emulate a dpad because of the haptic simulator.

The developer comments in that article and some of the others that have been linked really help to describe how the pads work and how versatile it can be. The pictures of somebody holding one helps provide some scale as well when thinking about button accessibility.

I'm pretty excited to try one. I've read a bunch of complaints about reach on the middle buttons, the layout of the face buttons (vs the traditional layout for 4 face buttons), and the lack of a dpad, but I think that's from an unwillingness to think about how the controller can be adapted to still provide all of that functionality.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Reading all the impressions make me even less receptive about this controller. A flat trackpad isn't going to simulate the feeling of holding a joystick in a certain direction for a turn or a real button press.

Eh, guess we'll see when it actually comes out.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
Reading all the impressions make me even less receptive about this controller. A flat trackpad isn't going to simulate the feeling of holding a joystick in a certain direction for a turn or a real button press.

Eh, guess we'll see when it actually comes out.

Uh, you do know the trackpads are also buttons, right? As in real, actuating buttons? I'm pretty sure real buttons feel like real buttons.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
Reading all the impressions make me even less receptive about this controller. A flat trackpad isn't going to simulate the feeling of holding a joystick in a certain direction for a turn or a real button press.

Eh, guess we'll see when it actually comes out.

I honestly don't care if it's good at classic controller-oriented games. I have a couple logitech controllers that I'm happy to use for those. If thumb sticks are still better for platformers, fighting games and racing games, that's fine by me. I'm only interested in whether this controller allows me to play games that traditionally don't work well on a controller--like strategy and FPS. Keyboard and mouse games are the thing that would keep me from wanting to play computer games in front of a TV.

Unfortunately, none of the impressions I've seen really cover those genres, which has me worried that it's not where they're properly focusing their attention.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Uh, you do know the trackpads are also buttons, right? As in real, actuating buttons? I'm pretty sure real buttons feel like real buttons.

Pressing one big button vs pressing individual smaller buttons isn't the same. And pressing multiple buttons at once?

A big "haptic feedback" button isn't going to offer the same sensation or functionality and still be intuitive. This controller will more than likely fair well with mouse focused games, but at the expense of traditional controller based games. This really wouldn't solve the problem of PC on the TV, because I'd still need multiple types of input to have the best experience.


I think what would have been better is if they had the haptic touchpad for the right hand and a traditional stick for the left.
 

mindcycle

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2008
1,901
0
76
This controller will more than likely fair well with mouse focused games, but at the expense of traditional controller based games. This really wouldn't solve the problem of PC on the TV, because I'd still need multiple types of input to have the best experience.

Yeah, I agree with this. It looks kind of cool if you wanted to play shooters from the couch, and in that regard, I think it's a step in the right direction. But for playing regular controller based games you'll likely want an Xbox or PS controller.

But IDK.. it's still a step in the right direction and may be enough to keep me from buying a console this next generation. We just have to hope that publishers get on board with this and actually release PC games alongside the console release, or at all, in some cases.. The only reason I bought a 360 or PS3 was because a game I wanted either didn't come out on the PC, or they delayed it months (or years). That shit has to change IMO for this to really work well.
 
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sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
I honestly don't care if it's good at classic controller-oriented games. I have a couple logitech controllers that I'm happy to use for those. If thumb sticks are still better for platformers, fighting games and racing games, that's fine by me. I'm only interested in whether this controller allows me to play games that traditionally don't work well on a controller--like strategy and FPS. Keyboard and mouse games are the thing that would keep me from wanting to play computer games in front of a TV.

Unfortunately, none of the impressions I've seen really cover those genres, which has me worried that it's not where they're properly focusing their attention.

There's always Joy2Key for that. This controller just seems to make it tidier to set up.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
There's always Joy2Key for that. This controller just seems to make it tidier to set up.

That doesn't really solve anything. The problem is that some games aren't well suited for thumb sticks and instead do much better with a mouse and keyboard. There's no really good way, though, to use those things on a couch. *If* this controller is able to better reproduce the speed and precision of a mouse, then it would go a long way towards making PC games viable on a TV.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
That doesn't really solve anything. The problem is that some games aren't well suited for thumb sticks and instead do much better with a mouse and keyboard. There's no really good way, though, to use those things on a couch. *If* this controller is able to better reproduce the speed and precision of a mouse, then it would go a long way towards making PC games viable on a TV.

If a game blows with a controller, I don't see this new one fixing that.

All I read was that it would bring compatibility, not magically make it amazing. And for that, Joy2Key has been around for awhile.

It's obviously not out yet, so I'm not going to dream of playing SCII on my TV with this thing just yet.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
That doesn't really solve anything. The problem is that some games aren't well suited for thumb sticks and instead do much better with a mouse and keyboard. There's no really good way, though, to use those things on a couch. *If* this controller is able to better reproduce the speed and precision of a mouse, then it would go a long way towards making PC games viable on a TV.

There already is a way, you can use a keyboard and a trackball mouse. My friend does this. Yes, the trackball is stupid, but it offers all the speed and precision of a mouse for the most part. That is what the thumbsticks are sounding like, but two of them doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't need two precision instruments to play PC games. Most still use WASD which translates amazingly to a controller and a mouse which doesn't. A single track pad for the right thumb and a thumbstick for the left would almost be perfect.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
There already is a way, you can use a keyboard and a trackball mouse. My friend does this. Yes, the trackball is stupid, but it offers all the speed and precision of a mouse for the most part. That is what the thumbsticks are sounding like, but two of them doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't need two precision instruments to play PC games. Most still use WASD which translates amazingly to a controller and a mouse which doesn't. A single track pad for the right thumb and a thumbstick for the left would almost be perfect.

Someone made a modified Xbox 360 controller with trackball instead of one of the sticks.
 

Dankk

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2008
5,558
25
91
There already is a way, you can use a keyboard and a trackball mouse. My friend does this. Yes, the trackball is stupid, but it offers all the speed and precision of a mouse for the most part. That is what the thumbsticks are sounding like, but two of them doesn't make a lot of sense. You don't need two precision instruments to play PC games. Most still use WASD which translates amazingly to a controller and a mouse which doesn't. A single track pad for the right thumb and a thumbstick for the left would almost be perfect.

Trackballs are not stupid. I've been gaming with one for years now, and I've found it to be superior to regular mice, particularly in FPS games.
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
302
68
101
The pads can be used to simulate multiple buttons. One of the developers who tested the controller used the right pad to simulate the traditional 4 face button layout.
 

frowertr

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,371
41
91
I wonder for whom the intended market of the Steam Box is. Is it for us hardcore gamers? I wouldn't think so. We already have monster gaming machines and, when the Steam OS comes out, we could always build an inexpensive HTPC for the living room and stream our games to our big screen tv's. So no need for an expensive Steam Box.

Then is it for the console market? Hmmm. Seems to me that it better damn well be sub-$300 to have any market penetration at all on that community. Seeing how the low-end Steam Box has a GTX660 we can count out any Box under the $300 range.

I just don't see who would want to buy this. Am I missing something?
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Prototype specs announced for the Steambox beta.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/2145128928746175450

Good luck competing with consoles, Valve. Nobody is paying $1500 to play CoD on their TV.

Are you intentionally acting dumb? From the very same article you linked us:

So for our own first prototype Steam Machine ( the one we're shipping to 300 Steam users ), we've chosen to build something special. The prototype machine is a high-end, high-performance box, built out of off-the-shelf PC parts. It is also fully upgradable, allowing any user to swap out the GPU, hard drive, CPU, even the motherboard if you really want to. Apart from the custom enclosure, anyone can go and build exactly the same machine by shopping for components and assembling it themselves. And we expect that at least a few people will do just that. (We'll also share the source CAD files for our enclosure, in case people want to replicate it as well.)

And to be clear, this design is not meant to serve the needs of all of the tens of millions of Steam users. It may, however, be the kind of machine that a significant percentage of Steam users would actually want to purchase - those who want plenty of performance in a high-end living room package. Many others would opt for machines that have been more carefully designed to cost less, or to be tiny, or super quiet, and there will be Steam Machines that fit those descriptions.
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
302
68
101
These units are prototypes, stated to be high end, and not representative of all the various price tiers Valve would like to see in the future. Additionally, Valve will not be handing out requirements to vendors. Targets maybe, but its up to the vendors to determine what they put in each unit. If they can cram all that power into the enclosure size that they want, then they'll have no issue with cheaper and more efficient hardware, especially in another year or so when it officially launches.

The Steambox may not be targeting any specific (existing) audience. At least not immediately. Maybe people on the fence between consoles and PC. It may not be attractive to somebody with a high end machine now, but what about when it comes time to upgrade? Plenty of people here have multiple rigs, so again, when it comes time to upgrade or replace one, Steambox is an option. The platform is flexible, so there's no need for immediate large scale adoption like with consoles for it to be a success. They just need to get it out there and let people pick it up as they need it.

Valve's goal is to make it easier to get PC gaming into the living room. It might only be a convenience, but its one people will still be willing to pay for.
 
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