Steam's Early Access failures?

[Man I Suck]

12 months for development? And who do you think should be liable to give you your money back, considering it has already been spent on development?

You aren't listening. Or, rather, you're not bothering to read my posts.

Why should I read yours if you won't do me the credit of reading mine?

 

[Man I Suck]

You don't, seriously. The whole entire point of KS and EA is for developers who lack funding to gain funding. You can't guarantee a game in this environment. It is in the writing.

What you want exists. It is the normal Steam and Pre-Order system. Those are guaranteed. KS and EA are by their very nature, not guaranteed. If you can't comprehend that, you should just avoid them.

Here we go again, telling people what they already know. You're not reading my posts, either. You're just here to get mad and argue. Read again (or maybe read for the first time) the first paragraph of the post you quoted.

 

[bystander36]

Here we go again, telling people what they already know. You're not reading my posts, either. You're just here to get mad and argue. Read again (or maybe read for the first time) the first paragraph of the post you quoted.

You want a guarantee. I get that you want a guarantee, but the very nature of KS/EA cannot provide a guarantee. What else is there to say?

 

[Man I Suck]

You want a guarantee. I get that you want a guarantee, but the very nature of KS/EA cannot provide a guarantee.

Why can't it? Because that would kill the simple-minded cash cow that companies are abusing now? It can. Just because some exec with velvet-lined-pockets says it can't doesn't mean that it can't -or shouldn't.

What else is there to say?

Then why do you keep saying it? ^_^

 

[Nograts]

This is really ironic that you posted this this week. I was browsing my steam library and noticed a game called "Starforge" that I bought while in Afghanistan in 2012. I think I paid 10 or 20 bucks for it.

Well I googled it to see where it was (it was unplayable when I bought it, or rather, there was about 1 minute of things to do).

Well it looks like there was a huuuuuge breakdown between the dev's and players. They published an "Official release" in November 2014. When you read the reviews, watch YT videos of the 'completed' game and what not, they literally did such a crap job on the game it was unbelievable. Like wow, who would release this as a finished game?

What was even crazier was all the big name game magazines and reviewers were talking about how it was a big deal, and was going to be a major game.

Then you watch the video...just. Holy crap. I don't get how people can get away with this. I guess the developers released another game as well. People like this should be banned from steam and such.

I get that it would be hard to set some sort of a benchmark as to "when the game is acceptable", but when they release a full version of the game that crashes about 4 times in a 5 minute time span, and just looks god awful with half the things they said they'd bring to the table...just crazy that these people could take 100 grand and run like that.

Google the game if you haven't heard of it, really opened my eyes to the whole 'early access' scene.

I think it's all a load of crap and I will hardly ever participate in one again.

 

[bystander36]

Why can't it? Because that would kill the simple-minded cash cow that companies are abusing now? It can. Just because some exec with velvet-lined-pockets says it can't doesn't mean that it can't -or shouldn't.



Then why do you keep saying it? ^_^

Because of the purpose of EA/KS. You'd remove the whole reason it exists, which is to provide funding for a game which needs funding. You can't guaranty a game if you lack funding. You can't return money when it is spent. The only way they could have guaranteed you a return on your money is if they had it to begin with, in which case it would be a pre-order, not a Kickstarter or Early Access.

 

[Man I Suck]

Because of the purpose of EA/KS. You'd remove the whole reason it exists, which is to provide funding for a game which needs funding. You can't guaranty a game if you lack funding. You can't return money when it is spent. The only way they could have guaranteed you a return on your money is if they had it to begin with, in which case it would be a pre-order, not a Kickstarter or Early Access.

There's an echo in here.

 

[Man I Suck]

This is really ironic that you posted this this week. I was browsing my steam library and noticed a game called "Starforge" that I bought while in Afghanistan in 2012. I think I paid 10 or 20 bucks for it.

Well I googled it to see where it was (it was unplayable when I bought it, or rather, there was about 1 minute of things to do).

Well it looks like there was a huuuuuge breakdown between the dev's and players. They published an "Official release" in November 2014. When you read the reviews, watch YT videos of the 'completed' game and what not, they literally did such a crap job on the game it was unbelievable. Like wow, who would release this as a finished game?

What was even crazier was all the big name game magazines and reviewers were talking about how it was a big deal, and was going to be a major game.

Then you watch the video...just. Holy crap. I don't get how people can get away with this. I guess the developers released another game as well. People like this should be banned from steam and such.

I get that it would be hard to set some sort of a benchmark as to "when the game is acceptable", but when they release a full version of the game that crashes about 4 times in a 5 minute time span, and just looks god awful with half the things they said they'd bring to the table...just crazy that these people could take 100 grand and run like that.

Google the game if you haven't heard of it, really opened my eyes to the whole 'early access' scene.

I think it's all a load of crap and I will hardly ever participate in one again.

The only problem with this is that it's millions, not a hundred grand. Millions.

There were even people bundling other people's work together (like game engine assets) to sell when they've done no work. Steam Greenlight is the next evolution of this "problem."

 

[bystander36]

There's an echo in here.

Explain to us how a developer can guaranty you a game or your money back when they have no money to develop the game except for the money they are given from KS and EA, which was spent to develop the game? How is it possible for them to return money they spent in developing the game if the game fails to deliver? Explain to us how they'd develop the game if they have to leave that money in some fund until the game is finished?

 

[Man I Suck]

Explain to us how a developer can guaranty you a game or your money back when they have no money to develop the game

Sorry, I'll stop you there.

How did they begin in the first place?

I don't really care what the answer to my question is, though.

...or the answer to your first question. The other questions have pretty much already been answered in this thread.

 

[bystander36]

Sorry, I'll stop you there.

How did they begin in the first place?

I don't really care what the answer to my question is, though.

...or the answer to your first question. The other questions have pretty much already been answered in this thread.

If you think any of those have been answered, you may need to think again.

The best case is they can return some of the money if they had left over funds. Money spent can't be returned.

 

[Subyman]

I understand. You can stop saying the same thing over and over and over. I get it. I simply don't care. I won't be satisfied until the existing KS/EA environment comes with some sort of guarantee -whether it's a completed game within 12 months or my money back.

Now you may resume telling me all about how I don't understand.

Well, then you won't be participating in the KS program. EA offers refunds within 14 days. Or, as many have stated already, you simply aren't a good candidate for funding a game. Wait for them to be released.

 

[Man I Suck]

Well, then you won't be participating in the KS program. EA offers refunds within 14 days. Or, as many have stated already, you simply aren't a good candidate for funding a game. Wait for them to be released.

You don't say?

 

[Man I Suck]

If you think any of those have been answered, you may need to think again.

The best case is they can return some of the money if they had left over funds. Money spent can't be returned.

You're still not listening. You should do more reading than you do posting.

One simple solution that's already been said repeatedly that you conveniently repeatedly ignore was the billing party (like steam or KS) holding the EA/KS funds until the game is released, but that's already been said and it's certainly not the only suggestion someone can come up with.

You may now return to telling me that I don't understand or explaining the same thing over and over and over. :awe:

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don't believe anyone understands what you are suggesting. Are you saying steam or ks should offer refunds if the game is not complete?
If so how about a game that is completed but simply not fun?

 

[KeithTalent]

You're still not listening. You should do more reading than you do posting.

One simple solution that's already been said repeatedly that you conveniently repeatedly ignore was the billing party (like steam or KS) holding the EA/KS funds until the game is released, but that's already been said and it's certainly not the only suggestion someone can come up with.

You may now return to telling me that I don't understand or explaining the same thing over and over and over. :awe:

That makes no sense. The funds are so they can make the game. If the funds are on hold and not usable, then it defeats the entire purpose of the process!

You want something different than these things are providing, and that's fine, I am actually with you as I do not buy any of these EA/KS games, but to blame the model when it's your expectations that are out of line or even unreasonable, is just absurd.

KT

 

[sweenish]

Yeah, indie games never existed before KS/EA.

I never said they didn't. You're shifting goal posts. You're also refusing to answer basic questions, under the guise of everyone's inability to read. And assuming that many of the indie gems today would still exist without these crowd-funding platforms. That's simply wrong.

The "answer" you keep falling back on has been shown many times over to already exist in the current pre-order/buying system, and to be impossible by the very nature of the KS/EA platform. If you want KS/EA to disappear, just say so. Just stop spouting the same non-answer.

Like I've been saying, there is a fundamental misunderstanding. You can just say there isn't as much as you want, but until you actually manage to explain yourself properly without personal attacks or shifting goal posts, you'll continue not to convince anyone.

My current opinion is that you're just trolling, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

The funny part is that we don't actually disagree when it comes our own use of these platforms. I don't do either. I bought one EA game, and while it's definitely playable and still getting updates and still very much not a polished product, it should have been released by now. Haven't gone back, and I don't plan on it.

 

[JamesV]

Imo Defense Grid was Hidden Path's pinnacle. Defense Grid 2 looks terrible and changes made it boring, and never even heard of Windborne.

So they couldn't find funding, nor sell enough to fund it, and they won't release the code so the community could fix it (and probably make 100x better). Hidden Path is now on my 'never buy from' list. If you won't finish it, at least give what you had to the players; this idea of 'we might finish it later' is a slap in the face for those that bought it.

I've had a lot of luck with Early Access (Kerbal Space Program, Prison Architect, Grim Dawn, etc). I've also avoided many titles from research like Towns.

 

[ewdotson]

You're still not listening. You should do more reading than you do posting.

One simple solution that's already been said repeatedly that you conveniently repeatedly ignore was the billing party (like steam or KS) holding the EA/KS funds until the game is released, but that's already been said and it's certainly not the only suggestion someone can come up with.

You may now return to telling me that I don't understand or explaining the same thing over and over and over. :awe:

The problem, of course, is that your "solution" is equivalent to simply getting rid of KS/EA entirely.

 

[bystander36]

You're still not listening. You should do more reading than you do posting.

One simple solution that's already been said repeatedly that you conveniently repeatedly ignore was the billing party (like steam or KS) holding the EA/KS funds until the game is released, but that's already been said and it's certainly not the only suggestion someone can come up with.

You may now return to telling me that I don't understand or explaining the same thing over and over and over. :awe:

And you are not listening. KS and EA is designed to fund a game. If they could release the game without funding, they wouldn't use KS or EA and we would not have the game at all.

You are describing the standard development game where funding is in place. KS and EA is for those without it.

 

[Elixer]

Something still needs to be done, there is no legally binding contract anywhere.

For EA, perhaps the best thing that needs to be done here is, for steam to take control of the source repo, and have steam make the builds of the game. If the developer can't/won't continue with development, then, open the source under a GPL type license, so, everyone wins. If developer gets enough $$$, and finishes the game, good for them. If they can't, at least the code is out there so someone might be able to finish it.

For KS, that is a different animal, most of the things on there are looking for funding, they are basically starting from scratch. The reward tiers are meant to give something back for funding them, but, there is no solid recourse when they get they get their funding goal, but fail to deliver. I know some have went to court, and the courts have said that they must give people their rewards specified in the tiers or compensate them.

 

[Man I Suck]

The problem, of course, is that your "solution" is equivalent to simply getting rid of KS/EA entirely.

I'm totally down with that.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

You're still not listening. You should do more reading than you do posting.

One simple solution that's already been said repeatedly that you conveniently repeatedly ignore was the billing party (like steam or KS) holding the EA/KS funds until the game is released, but that's already been said and it's certainly not the only suggestion someone can come up with.

You may now return to telling me that I don't understand or explaining the same thing over and over and over. :awe:

I don't understand this statement. Can you elaborate?

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don't support it, but I see it's usefulness for some developers.

 

[Man I Suck]

I don't understand this statement. Can you elaborate?

I don't understand how you don't understand. I'm not sure where to begin to explain something so simple. Soooo... I guess I just won't bother. Sorry!