Steve Jobs Biography describes Jobs as hell bent on destroying Android

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SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,429
2,347
136
Actually the first mouse that I'm aware of was in the early 60's at IBM. Like Xerox there management did nothing with it!

Xerox, IBM has no mouse patent.

Mouse computing



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart
Douglas Engelbart at the Stanford Research Institute invented the first mouse prototype in 1963,[4] with the assistance of his colleague Bill English. They christened the device the mouse as early models had a cord attached to the rear part of the device looking like a tail and generally resembling the common mouse.[5] Engelbart never received any royalties for it, as his patent ran out before it became widely used in personal computers.[6]


Just a few weeks before Engelbart released his demo in 1968, a mouse had already been developed and published by the German company Telefunken. Unlike Engelbart's mouse, the Telefunken model had a ball, as it can be seen in most later models until today. Since 1970, it was shipped as part and sold together with Telefunken Computers. Some models from the year 1972 are still well preserved.[10]


The second marketed integrated mouse shipped as a part of a computer and intended for personal computer navigation came with the Xerox 8010 Star Information System in 1981. However, the mouse remained relatively obscure until the appearance of the Apple Macintosh, which included an updated version of the original Lisa Mouse. In 1984 PC columnist John C. Dvorak dismissively commented on the newly-released computer with a mouse: "There is no evidence that people want to use these things".[11][12]
 

annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
When I first bought an Ipod Nano back in '07 (I think) I thought it was a great product. iTunes was shit, but the nano itself was great. As Apple began to change and become more petty towards Microsoft (the whole Mac v. PC thing really irritated me...Mac is a PC you idiots!) and then Android I made a cognizant decision to stop using it and I picked up a Zune to replace the nano. I loved the software and I feel (to this day) that the interface is just as good as the iPod's. Since that day I have swore off ever purchasing an Apple product. I don't use iTunes, I don't own an iPod, iTouch, iPhone, nor do I own a Macbook.

That said, there are times that I wish that I did own an iPhone because of ease with which even morons can use it, but that would require buying an Apple product, something I refuse to do. I refuse to support a company that publically & willfully uses anti-competitive practices based upon absurd "patents" a.k.a. napkin drawings to try and close off access to the market. I also refuse to support a company that takes something already in play, spins it, and claims it as their own (i.e. Optimus).

There are few things that I can control, but where my money goes is one.

The wierd thing about thinking like this, and this person is not alone, is that they refuse to buy apple products cause:

I refuse to support a company that publically & willfully uses anti-competitive practices based upon absurd "patents" a.k.a. napkin drawings to try and close off access to the market


And are yet are still happy to use Microsoft and Google products, who have both done as bad or worse things, its very strange, how ones sets rules for one company but is prepared to disregard morality rules for other companys.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
example of "as bad or worse" in recent times?

i'll use MS and google products but as rogue said earlier, i have never used an apple product. to be fair, earlier it was just down to it being too niche and poor software support (esp games). now those points are still valid (IMO) but i despise the company as well and vote with my wallet.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
As already mentioned CE was the first to use a GUI on a mobile device but was limited by the hardware available at the time. To me both Apple and MS just hate the success of Android, it's like if the first TV maker filed a patent with a tube and knobs on the right no one else could make a TV with knobs in a similar configuration?. Now if Google had stolen chunks of Apple developed code to make Android work then that's different but phones were heading that way (GUI) anyway as more and more powerful mobile processing became available. Interesting that as almost all Android OS company's are signing licensing agreements with MS it has yet to be revealed exactly what or how Android was violating MS's IP rights, IMO the runaway success of Android inspired MS to go this route, they couldn't come up with a better mobile OS (although mango IS getting good reviews) so they went the legal route..
 

annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
example of "as bad or worse" in recent times?

i'll use MS and google products but as rogue said earlier, i have never used an apple product. to be fair, earlier it was just down to it being too niche and poor software support (esp games). now those points are still valid (IMO) but i despise the company as well and vote with my wallet.

Microsoft has being pretty okay recently, but didn't know people applied a time limit to right or wrongs, again, only works against Apple in this case.

Google disregarding ownership of other companys tech and using it.
Telling mobile partners if you use software component we will cut you off.
Taking the publics information without consent
publishing written works on the net with the owners consent.

Many of the things if Apple did they would get slaughtered, but google is give a free get out, company love is wierd where people make rules up but don't apply them equaly.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Jobs is talking nonsense. Both Apple and Google are very similar companies, they profit on other peoples work. Thats where the profit is in todays market; bringing the customers to the product.

The advantage from a strategic point of view is the enourmous scalability.

We havnt seen the backside, but i think the future will show its a very fragile position. Suddenly someone can invent a new solution, that turns your entire portfolio into red ocean. Not next year but perhaps in 10 years.

Samsung is a very different company because it holds core competences in areas that takes years to develop. I am primarily thinking production technology. Its not easy to copy, its takes years, and cost loads of money. The entry barriers i sky high. And there is no shortcut.

For Apple the colaboration between Samsung and Google is very dangerous. If i was in the top of fx. google, i would exchange a huge part of the ownership with samsung. If i was Apple i would do what they do, sue their a.. off
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
re time line, apple have been pretty evil for a while now, google/microsoft have not.

what about apple threatening not to allow music on itunes if they were sold cheap on amazon?

i may be wrong, but in the US due to the retarded patent system (although patents everywhere seem to be screwed to high heavens), there's no point in asking to use a companies patents as (someone brought this up on this forum before) roughly 90% of them are found to be invalid when it goes to court? a deal before hand would mean you have to pay a fee for all patents would it not?

if by public information, you're referring to SSIDs, then that's broadcast out and freely picked up by anyone in range. it's public information at that point. same as with street view IMO.

publishing works with the owners consent? i take it that's a typo. i never read up on the whole google books thing so can't comment.

what are you referring to with the whole "cut you off" thing though?
 

annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
re time line, apple have been pretty evil for a while now, google/microsoft have not.


if by public information, you're referring to SSIDs, then that's broadcast out and freely picked up by anyone in range. it's public information at that point. same as with street view IMO.

publishing works with the owners consent? i take it that's a typo. i never read up on the whole google books thing so can't comment.

Sorry, no you're holding companys to different standards, I presume due to a bias to using one companys products and not others

It is not public information at that point, sorry you are wrong. What Google did was wrong and as evil as anything Apple are being held up for.

Google stopped a (I think it was a location servers product) from signing deals with android manufacturers, Google threatened them with being cut off if they did.

They are both as evil as each other its just people decide to look the otherway in certain instances as it hurts the view that Apple is evil and google and microsoft is good
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Microsoft has being pretty okay recently, but didn't know people applied a time limit to right or wrongs, again, only works against Apple in this case.

Google disregarding ownership of other companys tech and using it.
Telling mobile partners if you use software component we will cut you off.
Taking the publics information without consent
publishing written works on the net with the owners consent.

Many of the things if Apple did they would get slaughtered, but google is give a free get out, company love is wierd where people make rules up but don't apply them equaly.

Just so everyone understands the kind of issues MS caliming in the Barnes and Noble suit,

"Okay, let’s examine that “scope and scale” in Microsoft’s own words. In the post, Microsoft notes the following infringements by the Nook:

* Give people easy ways to navigate through information provided by their device apps via a separate control window with tabs;
* Enable display of a webpage’s content before the background image is received, allowing users to interact with the page faster;
* Allow apps to superimpose download status on top of the downloading content;
* Permit users to easily select text in a document and adjust that selection; and
* Provide users the ability to annotate text without changing the underlying document."

From this webpage...http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/21/this-title-is-patented-pay-me/ , by allowing those kind of patents to be issued it just sets up company's to buy these vague-at-best patents and screw over anyone as a business model, very sad. I could see if Google ripped out chunks of code and routines to make Android run but this is ass-hattery at it's finest..
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
48
91
It is not public information at that point, sorry you are wrong. What Google did was wrong and as evil as anything Apple are being held up for.

if i yell something out my window and someone outside hears me, they're not eavesdropping. if someone walks by my apartment and checks what SSIDs are being broadcast - they'll see mine. it's public information as it's being broadcast out to the public.

if you don't want it being seen, uncheck the "broadcast SSID" option.

it's no different to taking pictures in public places.

as for both being evil, google have done some nasty things but have tended to use patents defensively, not for trying to get a defacto monopoly like apple has by patenting a rectangular object with buttons on it. i mean come on! 16:9 TVs could have been subject to that patent too.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
And are yet are still happy to use Microsoft and Google products, who have both done as bad or worse things, its very strange, how ones sets rules for one company but is prepared to disregard morality rules for other companys.

There has been ONE huge thing that separates the Google/Microsofts and Apple:

When Google and Microsoft do something evil, they are at least trying to maximize shareholder value. Their "evil" is logical and rational, and therefore predictable. Meanwhile, as this thread proves, Apple under Jobs sometimes has done things just because Jobs wanted it and not because it brought shareholder benefit. That is irrational evil, which is hard to predict and can do more harm than predictable evil.

As an on topic point, Microsoft's "evil" of suing Android is FAR better than what Apple is doing. Why? Because Microsoft isn't trying to "kill" Android out of some emotional vendetta. They are just trying to get what they feel is their money from those who use their patents. It is predictable- if you make an Android product get ready to be sued and be sure to work their $15 fee into your margin when you create the product.

Meanwhile Jobs goes on a holy war, and it costs Apple shareholders. If Jobs would have been open to settlement, Apple would have billions extra in the bank could have possibility worked out some contractual niches. But Jobs decided that he didn't want Android to exist, so the billions Apple shareholders could have seen were given to Moto shareholders as Google had to defend themselves from Steve Job's irrationality. It is unpredictable- if you make an Android product you MIGHT have it banned from certain markets with no recourse. That is terrible for those developing products.

Google is going to collect as much information about people as possible, even against their will. Microsoft is going to collect as much money as they feel they are entitled to. These are solid maxims on which the industry can rely.

I hope a post-Jobs Apple moves toward some rational maxims so that the industry can move forward and we all benefit. Apple acting like a suicide bomber with billions of $ worth of C4 strapped to their chest does nothing by threaten the future of the devices we are passionate about.
 
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annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
if i yell something out my window and someone outside hears me, they're not eavesdropping. if someone walks by my apartment and checks what SSIDs are being broadcast - they'll see mine. it's public information as it's being broadcast out to the public.

if you don't want it being seen, uncheck the "broadcast SSID" option.

it's no different to taking pictures in public places.

as for both being evil, google have done some nasty things but have tended to use patents defensively, not for trying to get a defacto monopoly like apple has by patenting a rectangular object with buttons on it. i mean come on! 16:9 TVs could have been subject to that patent too.

Its not legal to take that information no matter what you think.

Google works differently, their business is information, they want to exploit technology, give it to people for free so that they can then get users information to earn there money for advertising, so patents in that way don't work for them.

But google will use such tactics if it suits their ends, using patented technology or copyrighted goods without permissions is one. Then they get championed for giving it out, many not realising due to it suiting their business model, not due to some goodness.
 

annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
There has been ONE huge thing that separates the Google/Microsofts and Apple:

When Google and Microsoft do something evil, they are at least trying to maximize shareholder value. Their "evil" is logical and rational, and therefore predictable. Meanwhile, as this thread proves, Apple under Jobs sometimes has done things just because Jobs wanted it and not because it brought shareholder benefit. That is irrational evil, which is hard to predict and can do more harm than predictable evil.

Makes a good sound bite, but thats all it is, a work of fiction
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Makes a good sound bite, but thats all it is, a work of fiction

LOL! A work of fiction?!?

You must have better sources than me, so I hope you will help me out:

I have NEVER seen a quote from Ballmer that he "hates" Android or any other product and that he plans to use MS's power to end them. I have never seen a MS lawsuit that worked to ban a product from market. I have never seen an evil move from them that is irrational. Maybe arrogant, but never emotionally irrational.

I have NEVER seen a quote from Schmidt or Page that talks about "hating" another product. To get at Google's evil more directly, I have never seen a quote where either has emotionally expressed a lack of respect for people's privacy or anger at another company for standing in their way. Shareholders are put before executive emotions.

But here we are, in a thread where the man who was the leader of Apple (and who had FAR more consolidated power than any man I have mentioned) making very direct and emotional comments about Android. This man who blatantly and emotionally says he is willing to shortcut the shareholders billions just to preserve his personal legacy.

That is not a "sound bite," that is reality.
 
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Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Yep, it's an "authorized" biography, and knowing what I do of Mr. Jobs, he probably ok'd every comma and period.
 

annomander

Member
Jul 6, 2011
166
0
0
LOL! A work of fiction?!?

You must have better sources than me, so I hope you will help me out:

I have NEVER seen a quote from Ballmer that he "hates" Android or any other product and that he plans to use MS's power to end them. I have never seen a MS lawsuit that worked to ban a product from market. I have never seen an evil move from them that is irrational. Maybe arrogant, but never emotionally irrational.

I have NEVER seen a quote from Schmidt or Page that talks about "hating" another product. To get at Google's evil more directly, I have never seen a quote where either has emotionally expressed a lack of respect for people's privacy or anger at another company for standing in their way. Shareholders are put before executive emotions.
.

But then it was a google boss that was a boardmember that went away and revised his company products to align with Apples, a bit hard to be angry at yourself. I've certainly read instances where Google has expressed a lack of respect for peoples privacy.

I have seen irrational quotes from Ballmer aswell.

As I said, people make allowances for once company then they do for others then try to justify it as some type of moral stance when its good old fashioned fanboy bias.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Its not legal to take that information no matter what you think.

Google works differently, their business is information, they want to exploit technology, give it to people for free so that they can then get users information to earn there money for advertising, so patents in that way don't work for them.

But google will use such tactics if it suits their ends, using patented technology or copyrighted goods without permissions is one. Then they get championed for giving it out, many not realising due to it suiting their business model, not due to some goodness.

It's not "technology" at all, just the "idea" that one can do simple things like highlight fucking text on a page, your making this out to be Google "stole" technology to make Android work which is laughable and they ARE out to kill it, said or not, if your a hardware manufacturer using Android you will now pay to use it or develop and install MS software for your device and not worry about future "infringements", of course you pay MS to use WM7. I'm hoping the justice dept. closely examines why 3 life-long arch rivals pooled up 4.5 billion to buy out Nortell's patents...
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
But then it was a google boss that was a boardmember that went away and revised his company products to align with Apples, a bit hard to be angry at yourself. I've certainly read instances where Google has expressed a lack of respect for peoples privacy.

Of course Google doesn't respect people privacy. That is how they are evil. But where have they acted emotionally?

I have seen irrational quotes from Ballmer aswell.

This is a forum, you can link to sources. Show me one irrational and emotional Ballmer quote that was followed by MS backing that up with real resources. Ballmer says stupid things, but at the end of the day MS acts logical.

As I said, people make allowances for once company then they do for others then try to justify it as some type of moral stance when its good old fashioned fanboy bias.

You completely miss my point. This has NOTHING to do with morals.

Every major tech company is evil in some way. Hell, large corporations sometimes seem like incubators of evil as they put their shareholders wants before everyone else in society's wants. Evil is a part of the fabric, and as long as every company is "evil" and logical then it is predictable.

My main beef is not the evil, it is something that is FAR less welcomed in the corporate world- emotions. Companies can be evil and logical all they want, but the second emotions are brought in and logic goes away then REAL damage is done.

In this case, Google's evil of stealing helped the consumer. Without Google's evil stealing Apple WOULD HAVE been the only major option for touchscreen smartphones for a while which meant we would have to have taken what they gave us (small screens, no 4G, etc.).

Microsoft's evil doesn't help the consumer, but it doesn't harm the consumer. No one is scrapping product or product launches thanks to MS'es lawsuits. They want money, and there is plenty of that. Wanting money for your innovations is a logical action.

But Apple and Jobs? If Jobs had his way the consumer would have been harmed in a major way. If Apple would have had a monopoly on touchscreen phones then such phones would still be out of reach to too much of the public. It is not like Apple can really make anymore iPhones- they sell all they have! All Job's emotional vendetta would have accomplished is to decrease shareholder value (by using their resources for the vendetta that was unlikely to succeed rather than taking a payoff).

I don't give a crap about evil companies. I am not saying one is more evil than another, as they all are (your key point). Choosing "sides" based on who is acting evil is ridiculous.

I DO give a crap about anyone that stands in the way of progress. I want my toys next year to be cheaper and better than this year, and the year after they should be even better. If Job would have had his way, the flow of toys would have been purposefully stagnated just for his benefit. I don't care if he feels he was right, anyone that stands in the way of progress is the one I single out as "the bad guy."

If all companies act rationally, even if they are acting evil, the market moves forward. As long as the goal is "make as much money as possible," I get new and better toys. The second the goal is "I am gonna hurt that guy because he hurt me!" and money goes out the window, then resources that could go to making me better toys down the line (to make that company more money) is instead being used in a quixotic attempt to stop the flow of toys.

At the end of the day, the real "evil" in this realm is whatever stands in the way of progress. Apple totally had a right to sue Android, and Jobs had a right to seek a settlement. He did not have a right to hold back the entire market for emotional reasons.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Its not legal to take that information no matter what you think.

Google works differently, their business is information, they want to exploit technology, give it to people for free so that they can then get users information to earn there money for advertising, so patents in that way don't work for them.

But google will use such tactics if it suits their ends, using patented technology or copyrighted goods without permissions is one. Then they get championed for giving it out, many not realising due to it suiting their business model, not due to some goodness.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Apple would use patented technology and copyrighted goods too. Why don't you look up who owned the copyright for "iPhone" before Apple appropriated it for itself. Silicon Valley works on the principle that it's easier to ask for forgiveness after than permission before. No tech company in their right mind is going to put its strategic objectives aside while it waits for permission from a potential competitor. If it waits, it's guaranteed to lose, while if it just goes ahead, there is a reasonably good chance that it can win in court or settle outside. And you, as consumer, are a beneficiary of that.
 
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