Steve Jobs - Leading Candidate to Exterminate the PC

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taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
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I go to "school" (University) in Cambridge, and believe me they are EVERYWHERE, you can get a Mac reasonably priced, just buy second hand like I do.

which is still much more expensive than computers made by other companies if bought second hand.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
which is still much more expensive than computers made by other companies if bought second hand.

Yeah but they arn't Mac's, I got mine pretty cheap, I payed maybe an extra $200 for the fact that it was a Mac, but I could easily just put that down to the case...
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Yeah but they arn't Mac's, I got mine pretty cheap, I payed maybe an extra $200 for the fact that it was a Mac, but I could easily just put that down to the case...

and that is fine, it is your choice on how much you are willing to pay for (if you even value it).
Different strokes for different folk. There is nothing wrong with having a different preference than me on how to spend your money.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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I am not sure I understand... facebook will win what exactly?
Facebook is not an OS, how would it overcome linux, windows, and macOS?

I think he's saying that at the rate facebook is expanding there's nothing to say that in a few years we couldn't all be using facebook computers running faceboook OS, and they will start to take over the world, I responded with Google is more likely with Chrome etc.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Like I was trying to install an old peice of hardware I had lying around, but in Windows 7, you can't use unsigned drivers, so I had so sit there and boot into test mode, force the driver to work and then remove the test mode watermark, pain in the arse, and a very simple task in theory.

OS: Windows 7 Pro x64

Well, installing old hardware on a 64-bit OS is just asking for trouble. Microsoft is in one of those damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenarios on this issue. Continuing to support *every* piece of hardware *ever* made for the x86 Windows environment adds complexity and introduces points of failure, for which some users whine and complain.. and removing that support to enhance security and stability (requiring signed drivers) sometimes makes people whine and complain too.

No company can please everyone.. but that doesn't stop people from, stupidly, whining and complaining.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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Well, installing old hardware on a 64-bit OS is just asking for trouble. Microsoft is in one of those damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenarios on this issue. Continuing to support *every* piece of hardware *ever* made for the x86 Windows environment adds complexity and introduces points of failure, for which some users whine and complain.. and removing that support to enhance security and stability (requiring signed drivers) sometimes makes people whine and complain too.

No company can please everyone.. but that doesn't stop people from, stupidly, whining and complaining.

Yurp, just one of many problem's from not building software for specific hardware.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Unless the close system is able to accommodate the needs of the majority.

.. which it isn't.

.. and the closed system is not better than its competition to a degree worth its higher price and closed-ness.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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.. which it isn't.

I would argue that it is, I would say that the majority of casual computer users, use their computers to surf the internet, check e-mails, word process, and view photos and media, well a Mac will do all those things well, therefore the accommodate the majority of users.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I think he's saying that at the rate facebook is expanding there's nothing to say that in a few years we couldn't all be using facebook computers running faceboook OS, and they will start to take over the world, I responded with Google is more likely with Chrome etc.

yes there is something to say that... an OS takes years to develop and facebook hasn't even dreamed of starting. Also it is completely outside their knowledge and experience base and it goes against very established players...
now if he said "in 50 years" it would be more plausible (a complete and utter guess that is probably not going to occur, but possible)

I would argue that it is, I would say that the majority of casual computer users, use their computers to surf the internet, check e-mails, word process, and view photos and media, well a Mac will do all those things well, therefore the accommodate the majority of users.

I have proof positive that you are wrong.
Take a look at current players, the biggest one is MS, followed by apple, followed by linux.
Your argument is basically translates into apple's model being more desirable to a majority of consumers... if that was REALLY the case then apple would have a majority of the market, instead it has a very small minority (single digits)
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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yes there is something to say that... an OS takes years to develop and facebook hasn't even dreamed of starting. Also it is completely outside their knowledge and experience base and it goes against very established players...
now if he said "in 50 years" it would be more plausible (a complete and utter guess that is probably not going to occur, but possible)



I have proof positive that you are wrong.
Take a look at current players, the biggest one is MS, followed by apple, followed by linux.
Your argument is basically translates into apple's model being more desirable to a majority of consumers... if that was REALLY the case then apple would have a majority of the market, instead it has a very small minority (single digits)

That's not true, just because a product is superior dosen't instantly make it more popular, plus I'm not saying that it is better for the majority of people, what I'm saying is that it is better for those prepared to pay the extra, and for those who don't need gaming.

The fact that Apple isn't the most popular platform dosen't prove that they are worse. Microsoft got their first, that's why they are more popular, people stick with what they are used to.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
The thing about this is that it is all a matter of opinion, it wont be concluded one way or another, it's just that in my opinion based on my fairly sizeable experience Mac>PC, and PC!=Mac
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I would argue that it is, I would say that the majority of casual computer users, use their computers to surf the internet, check e-mails, word process, and view photos and media, well a Mac will do all those things well, therefore the accommodate the majority of users.

It doesn't accommodate the majority of users in one very key area: price.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
It doesn't accommodate the majority of users in one very key area: price.

True, assuming your buying brand new Mac's do price themselves out of a lot of markets. In every other respect though, they would go perfectly with the vast majority.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
That's not true, just because a product is superior dosen't instantly make it more popular, plus I'm not saying that it is better for the majority of people, what I'm saying is that it is better for those prepared to pay the extra, and for those who don't need gaming.

you didn't say superior, you said more desirable to the majority of consumers.

Had you said superior it would be your opinion, highly subjective and cannot be proven or disprove since its just your preference. But if you start claiming what is more desirable to the majority you are going into fact territory. And the fact is, apple's model is not more desirable to the majority, or the majority would be apple users.

Personally I think that MMOG are utter crap and "not real games" but I recognize that my opinion is in the minority, that is, MMOG prove to be more desirable to the majority of consumers. I don't like it but thats how it is. I am saying that the same thing applies here.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
you didn't say superior, you said more desirable to the majority of consumers.

Had you said superior it would be your opinion, highly subjective and cannot be proven or disprove since its just your preference. But if you start claiming what is more desirable to the majority you are going into fact territory. And the fact is, apple's model is not more desirable to the majority, or the majority would be apple users.

Personally I think that MMOG are utter crap and "not real games" but I recognize that my opinion is in the minority, that is, MMOG prove to be more desirable to the majority of consumers. I don't like it but thats how it is. I am saying that the same thing applies here.

I never said more desirable, my exact words were "is able to accommodate the needs of the majority."
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I never said more desirable, my exact words were "is able to accommodate the needs of the majority."

fair enough; I misinterpreted your intentions there.
but the majority of customers disagree with you and think it isn't able to accommodate their needs best, or they would be using it. You can't attribute it to never having heard of it since practically everyone knows about apple and macs.
You MIGHT be right (personally I disagree) that their needs are best served by it, but they obviously don't agree with you.
All I have to say is that I am glad we get to choose for ourselves what best suits our needs.

The "needs of the majority" include price.

which is my guess as to why most of them decide that apple does not actually serve their needs best.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
fair enough; I misinterpreted your intentions there.
but the majority of customers disagree with you and think it isn't able to accommodate their needs best, or they would be using it. You can't attribute it to never having heard of it since practically everyone knows about apple and macs.
You MIGHT be right (personally I disagree) that their needs are best served by it, but they obviously don't agree with you.
All I have to say is that I am glad we get to choose for ourselves what best suits our needs.



which is my guess as to why most of them decide that apple does not actually serve their needs best.

I agree, but I attribute that to not spending enough time using a Mac, and therefore not getting to know the software enough, I guarentee if you took the average Joe and said you HAVE to use this Mac for 2 months as your computer, after that they'd be just as happy with either.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I agree, but I attribute that to not spending enough time using a Mac, and therefore not getting to know the software enough, I guarentee if you took the average Joe and said you HAVE to use this Mac for 2 months as your computer, after that they'd be just as happy with either.

I don't know about average joe is, but I actually used macOS9 and MacOSX alongside windows, linux, solaris, and freeBSD and I gotta tell you that I hate macOS. everything else has a place, but not macos.

Also, you completely ignore the price issue. You argue for controlled hardware and software, aka the apple model. But such control comes at the price of being more expensive. Even if average joe DOES enjoy a mac more, does he enjoy it more enough to justify the extra price tag?
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
I don't live in america, I live in England and it's massive here. Although I love that quote "america dosen't equal the world"

Oh really?
Did you just redefine the word "massive"?

<5% marketshare is not massive FYI.
 
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