In other words, Zune and Windows Mobile haven't been cool enough for you, so everything they've entered they're 2nd rate?
What about xBox? The 360 is still stomping the PS3 - and that's coming from a PS3 owner.
And they have plenty of products that are 2nd or 3rd place in the market - Zune, Windows Mobile (falling but still a very large market share), Bing, Hotmail, MSN Messanger (#1 IM client in the world), Internet Explorer, Visual Studio, MS Project, DirectX, Exchange, SQL Server.....
Windows Azure might just become the top cloud computing platform in a few years.
This decade, we've seen the rise of OSX, and a litany of consumer-usable Linux variants. Yet even with their "blunder", Vista, they've still maintained the spot comfortably.
You are ignorant if you think Microsoft is not in a good position in the market - being that between 2008 and 2009 they went from the #6 to #2 most profitable company in the world, despite one of the worst years in their history. They've held a very strong position in a very hostile market.
Zune and Windows Mobile are failures.
Have you SEEN how much money Sony sunk into the PS3? Or how much money they've lost on the PS3? PSX and PS2 were the most successful consoles of all time, Sony spent far more than MS on development of the PS3 - and 360 is beating it, not just in console sales, but even more so in software sales. 360 is a huge success no matter how you look at it.After dumping over $8B into the market, the best Microsoft can do with the 360 is sell 6M more units than Sony, who all but put a gun to their head and pull the trigger this generation. And that's with a one year head start and at half the price for a long time. Not to mention Nintendo is raping both MS and Sony this gen.
Again - you assume Zune is a "failure" because it isn't #1. It is growing, each iteration is more successful than the last. A product can be successful without being #1. You are so ridiculously dense and narrow minded. Just like you said in that other thread that Droid won't be a success unless it "dethrones" iPhone, which is an absurd statement to make. IE is "declining" but still is #1 in marketshare. Bing, again, is behind but VERY rapidly gaining in marketshare.Zune, a failed iPod killer (ZUne HD, what?), IE a declining web browser with a stagnant codebase, Bing with a fraction of Google's market share, even *if* the Yahoo deal goes through, etc and so on.
You never stop with this drivel. .NET has been a success, when did they say it would "kill" Java? .NET - especially ASP.NET - is a very popular platform, and in turn helps sell Windows Server operating systems. How do you know Azure is going to get "raked over the coals"? It offers a unique set of features that AppEngine and AWS do not. Unlike other markets they came late to, cloud services is still a very new, and very rapidly gaining market. There is plenty of room for Azure to succeed, you just can't admit it, because you're a mindless drone.Too bad they're about two years too late to enter that market and are going to get raked over the coals by Google and Amazon. Just like Silverlight was going to kill Flash and .NET was going to kill Java. Right.
If by "marginalized" you mean continuing to make Microsoft billions and billions of dollars.Operating systems are largely marginalized these days. The rise of mobile, internet, cloud computing is making the desktop OS just a commodity.
They are pretty much marginalized in the tech industry. They'll have the Windows and Office cash cows for as long as that gravy train last, after that ship sails, what then?
Jobs IS AAPL. company will nosedive when he can no longer run it.
I dont dislike apple, but i cant stand most of its smug, elitist userbase
Failures? How are they failures? Because they aren't #1 in their respective markets?
Have you SEEN how much money Sony sunk into the PS3? Or how much money they've lost on the PS3? PSX and PS2 were the most successful consoles of all time, Sony spent far more than MS on development of the PS3 - and 360 is beating it, not just in console sales, but even more so in software sales. 360 is a huge success no matter how you look at it.
How do you know Azure is going to get "raked over the coals"? It offers a unique set of features that AppEngine and AWS do not. Unlike other markets they came late to, cloud services is still a very new, and very rapidly gaining market. There is plenty of room for Azure to succeed, you just can't admit it, because you're a mindless drone.
If by "marginalized" you mean continuing to make Microsoft billions and billions of dollars.
Are you assuming computers won't need operating systems in the future? As much as you think cloud computing (which in one paragraph you admit is a rising market, while in the next you claim Microsoft has no chance in, amusing) is the future, desktop operating systems aren't going anywhere any time soon. And again - Microsoft is still extremely successful in many other markets, whether they're #1 in particular market or not.
Get your head out of your ass, kid. Your blind view of the world is worthless.
I'm sure the goal of the Zune project was to end up in distant third place behind Sansa.
All 360 fanboys do is compare things to Sony's situation. Like I said already, Sony royally screwed the pooch this generation. Squeaking out with a 6M unit head start is nothing to brag about, especially when you're being murdered outright by Nintendo. The E&D division has a $8B dent thanks to the Xbox and 360 that will never be filled at the rate they're going with the 360, along with bumps in the road like the $1.2B hit they took for the RRoD debacle. The only way you can remotely label the 360 as a success is to say, "Don't at us -- look at Sony!"
Looking at your Twitter feed I can see why you would think that, but at the end of the day, I don't see how Azure is going to be any more successful that Silverlight or .NET, which are second-rate players. Google is light years ahead of MS in this space.
And mainframes make IBM billions and billions of dollars. I wouldn't invest in IBM these days, would you?
Computers will always need an OS, but over time their role is becoming marginalized. Do you think at all about the OS in your mobile devices? Not really. Desktop operating systems are a waning technology. In 10 years we won't look at desktop OS releases the same way we do today.
Your myopic view of the world is obviously a product of your environment. Get out of the Kool Aid tent and into the real world and maybe then you'll realize you're riding last decade's bus.
"End up"? You act like the market is over and no one is selling more units. Each iteration of the Zune does better than the last - and we've already had a lengthy debate on this that we don't need to repeat, but fact is, like it or not, the ZuneHD has been well received. Its a marathon, not a sprint. This isn't Talladega Nights, there's more than first or last.I'm sure the goal of the Zune project was to end up in distant third place behind Sansa.
Are you calling me a 360 fanboy? My entertainment center disagrees with you on that one:All 360 fanboys do is compare things to Sony's situation. Like I said already, Sony royally screwed the pooch this generation. Squeaking out with a 6M unit head start is nothing to brag about, especially when you're being murdered outright by Nintendo. The E&D division has a $8B dent thanks to the Xbox and 360 that will never be filled at the rate they're going with the 360, along with bumps in the road like the $1.2B hit they took for the RRoD debacle. The only way you can remotely label the 360 as a success is to say, "Don't at us -- look at Sony!"
Looking at your Twitter feed I can see why you would think that, but at the end of the day, I don't see how Azure is going to be any more successful that Silverlight or .NET, which are second-rate players. Google is light years ahead of MS in this space.
And mainframes make IBM billions and billions of dollars. I wouldn't invest in IBM these days, would you?
Don't tell that to the people rushing out to buy Windows 7 - which is selling something like 250% faster than Windows Vista did over its launch, despite the economy being a lot worse. And yes - I do think about the OS in my mobile devices quite a bit. You asked the wrong person that question. We don't look at ANYTHING in tech the same way we did 10 years prior, so that's a silly statement to make.Computers will always need an OS, but over time their role is becoming marginalized. Do you think at all about the OS in your mobile devices? Not really. Desktop operating systems are a waning technology. In 10 years we won't look at desktop OS releases the same way we do today.
Your myopic view of the world is obviously a product of your environment. Get out of the Kool Aid tent and into the real world and maybe then you'll realize you're riding last decade's bus.
Jobs IS AAPL. company will nosedive when he can no longer run it.
I dont dislike apple, but i cant stand most of its smug, elitist userbase
You are beyond dense.
Failures? How are they failures? Because they aren't #1 in their respective markets? By your logic - Mac is a failure. OSX is a failure. Hell, even iPhone is a failure since it still trails Symbian in marketshare.
Google was founded by Larry Page and Sergey Brin.....
I think these guys should have been close.
"End up"? You act like the market is over and no one is selling more units. Each iteration of the Zune does better than the last - and we've already had a lengthy debate on this that we don't need to repeat, but fact is, like it or not, the ZuneHD has been well received. Its a marathon, not a sprint. This isn't Talladega Nights, there's more than first or last.
Are you calling me a 360 fanboy? My entertainment center disagrees with you on that one:
The 360 has been very successful - the fact that they have the lead over a more powerful, ultra-hyped successor to the most successful game system of all time IS impressive.
And while the console unit gap is closer than it was, 360 still sells a LOT more games than PS3. As an owner of a PS3 and a Wii that dislikes most things about the 360, I can say that...because I'm not a mindless fanboy.
.NET has been very successful, especially in web programming, I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Silverlight is still pretty new itself. Cloud services is a new thing with a lot of growth - there is plenty of room for success for Azure - like I said, its a very unique product compared to AWS or App engine - all 3 appeal to different groups. Which I know is a foreign concept to you.
Actually, IBM as a company is still very successful. Their stock is actually up over a 10 year period, including over the tech bust. They are actually the 2nd most profitable tech company - ya know, after Microsoft.
Don't tell that to the people rushing out to buy Windows 7 - which is selling something like 250% faster than Windows Vista did over its launch
Unlike you, I am not a shill for a single company.
Umm - when you release a line of products, and then a successor line, you want it to be more successful than the last. No one at Microsoft expected Zune to knock off iPod right away. I don't know what their sales projections vs actual sales were - and neither do you, so don't pretend like it - but you still can't call it a failure, period.Better than the last? Is that some sort of benchmark of mediocrity? 3M Zune sales vs 220M+ iPods sales (not even including the Touch and iPhone). Not a peep from MS about Zune HD sales either, which is never good news.
I have a PS3 and a Wii, and I dislike the 360. I'm not a 360 fanboy, I'm just not an idiot. You never did respond to Max/OSX/iPhone being failures because they aren't #1 in their markets, which you seem to think is the bar between success and failure, by the way.Wow, you have a PS3. I have a home built gaming rig and Dell Mini 10v both running Windows 7 and an Eee PC 901 running Ubuntu -- yet you label me an Apple fanboy. I even have a Zune 4.
The fact that they are getting hammered by a less powerful, successor to the least successful system in a long time IS NOT impressive. But, by all means, distract and point to the PS3 which has been nothing but a disaster for Sony up until very recently.
Show the numbers then. Yes, PS3 and Wii are both more successful in Japan, but the US market is a considerably bigger market, and in the US, the 360 has a considerable software unit lead.Again, your myopic view of things. You're looking at US sales from NPD figures where the 360 has a 9M unit lead -- of course software sales are going to be higher on the 360 side. In aggregate, world-wide, you see that in most cases sales are in ratio with system install base.
You're correct that C# is the most popular .NET language, but plenty of people (especially in web development/asp.net) use VB. Oh...but Texas Ranger Bobby doesn't know anyone that uses that at his non-Java UI job! I, in fact, use a combination of C++ and C# in .NET at work. So much for that theory.Silverlight has been out for 2 1/2 years. That's a long time in technology. It's been dumped by MLB, NBC, etc and really not caught on at all (unless you primary visit Microsoft websites or Netflix). .NET may be popular from your viewpoint, but looking at programming language popularity it lags behind Java, C, and even PHP.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
And before you attack me for blurring the difference between runtime and language, I don't know anyone using any other language but C# to target .NET.
Vista is a "failure", and yet as someone else above posted, it still sold considerably more than other operating systems combined. If the consumer OS were dying, Windows 7 wouldn't be selling the way that it is - period. Its still a multi billion dollar market, and one that Microsoft absolutely dominates. more than Apple does with iPod. More than Google does with search.Windows Vista was a failure WRT sales, especially at launch. What kind of benchmark is that? Is that something to be proud of?
Proof I am?
Umm - when you release a line of products, and then a successor line, you want it to be more successful than the last. No one at Microsoft expected Zune to knock off iPod right away. I don't know what their sales projections vs actual sales were - and neither do you, so don't pretend like it - but you still can't call it a failure, period.
The Gamecube is the least successful system in a long time? Where have you been? Worldwide it sold similar to the original xBox, and it crushed Dreamcast. Anyway, again, no one has said anything negative about the Wii's success - their ability to sell to 55 year old women that will use it once and let it gather dust is impressive - I don't think Microsoft was targeting Halo and Gears of War at those audiences. Yet another case of "a product can't be a success unless its in 1st"..
Show the numbers then. Yes, PS3 and Wii are both more successful in Japan, but the US market is a considerably bigger market, and in the US, the 360 has a considerable software unit lead.
You're correct that C# is the most popular .NET language, but plenty of people (especially in web development/asp.net) use VB.
DirectX a failure? Or are we all still using OpenGL and Glide?
Vista is a "failure", and yet as someone else above posted, it still sold considerably more than other operating systems combined. If the consumer OS were dying, Windows 7 wouldn't be selling the way that it is - period. Its still a multi billion dollar market, and one that Microsoft absolutely dominates. more than Apple does with iPod. More than Google does with search.
I figured this thread would be ruined by Apple haters... I had no idea it'd be ruined by a MS hater. Chris, you have a problem. You are way too involved in corporations. They will not love you back. Your rabid fanboyism is embarrassing to all Mac users. Please STFU. People like you are why people hate Apple so much.
I figured this thread would be ruined by Apple haters... I had no idea it'd be ruined by a MS hater. Chris, you have a problem. You are way too involved in corporations. They will not love you back. Your rabid fanboyism is embarrassing to all Mac users. Please STFU. People like you are why people hate Apple so much.
I don't recall saying anything here that would paint me as an Apple supporter. I pointed out what a bad job Ballmer is doing and the MS defense force (Deeko) jumped in about how great MS is. I am simply countering his argument.
At this rate Zune will be a success by the year 2100. The Zune brand name is universally recognized as a failure. Zune HD is a Hail Mary to save the brand name. Initial reception from Engadget, etc was warm, but the release was hit with an enormous black eye of not having an app store, along with slow load times and pre-roll ads. No sales data out of Microsoft can only mean it did not sell well. The Zune brand is in the shitter, whether you want to admit it or not.
Its interesting how I said "Halo and Gears of War", not "Project Natal" isn't it? If something like Natal is a success, they can successfully capture BOTH demographics, something the Wii will never achieve. So try again, sport.Funny, because with "Project Natal" Microsoft is going after the 55-year-old soccer mom demographic. Typical Microsoft, always playing the follower.
Similarly you made the assertion that it does not, or that its only [x] units shy worldwide. You also seemingly won't accept NPD numbers. No matter what I provide, you won't accept, because your drone programming won't allow it. In head to head cross platform titles, based on sales figures on Amazon, based on NPD, based on any source you want - the 360 almost always sells better than PS3.You made the assertion that the 360 has better software sales, it's your duty to prove it -- not mine.
Sweet subject shift. I'll take that as an admission that I was right. Wow, the closest you've ever come to admitting defeat! Good job, there's hope for you to hit puberty yet.Yes, plenty of low rent developers use VB in corporate environments. On the actual web it's largely eclipsed by LAMP, due mainly that Windows hosting is too expensive for most start-ups. Take a look at the Alexa top 100 sites and count how many are using Microsoft technology (outside of Microsoft, of course).
http://www.alexa.com/topsites
haha - another subject shift. Nice. You're finally giving in that your fanboyism is misplaced.DX is a success, but it's a shame Microsoft screwed PC gaming in favor of supporting the Xbox 360. How's the Games for Windows intuitive going? How gimped is CoD4 on the PC? Even when Microsoft does something successful, their fucked up compartmentalized organization manages to fuck it up. How bad do you think the Zune team must have felt when the WinMob execs told them they could not do an app store?
You sound like the horse cart salesmen of the late 1800's -- "Never mind the 'automobile'! Horse carts are a thriving business that have made us a ton of money!!!"