Steve Nash vs John Stockton

[Corporate Thug]

steven nash because he is more of an offensive threat, however, he is a bit more out of control

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: deftron

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: deftron
Nash owns .. he doesn't even have a Malone equivalent

Amare Stoudamire

haha...

Stoudamire[VERY >] Malone


You think they'd put him on a Dream Team ?

Why are you winking at me?

Anyways, Amare Stoudamire is one of the best players in the league, at such a young age as well. Compare their 3rd seasons:

Amare: 26 ppg, 8.8 rpg, and 1.4 bpg.
Malone: 27.7 ppg, 12 rpg, and .6 bpg.

Amare has the potential to be as good as Malone.

 

[deftron]

yeah .. but he doesn't have a cool nickname

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: deftron

Originally posted by: chuckywang

Originally posted by: deftron
Nash owns .. he doesn't even have a Malone equivalent

Amare Stoudamire

haha...

Stoudamire[VERY<]Malone


You think they'd put him on a Dream Team ?

Why are you winking at me?

Anyways, Amare Stoudamire is one of the best players in the league, at such a young age as well. Compare their 3rd seasons:

Amare: 26 ppg, 8.8 rpg, and 1.4 bpg.
Malone: 27.7 ppg, 12 rpg, and .6 bpg.

Amare has the potential to be as good as Malone.

I would have to agree with Chucky. Amare is faster and deadlier. Explosive would be another word.

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: chuckywang
Stockton has the NBA career record for assists AND steals!!

That's two of the five most important stats in basketball.

How can you compare to that???

Wouldn't you say that's just more a testament to his longevity and not as much skills? Much like Emmitt Smith breaking the all time record over Sweetness, but Emmitt never had more pure skill than Barry Sanders or Sweetness IMO.

He did play 19 seasons (only 2 were cut slightly short), that's a long time.

Then let's talk averages. I think it's safe to say Nash is in the prime of his career right now. But in Stockton's prime, he still averaged at least 2 more assists and 2 more steals per game, and perhaps only 1 or 2 points less per game.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: AntMan530

Originally posted by: ElFenix
and horny's habit of wiping down the side of his face before every free throw to say hi to his wife was pretty annoying. just shoot the damn ball already. almost as bad as nomar garciapara

haha...isnt this a jeff hornceck habit? or does nash does this too? havent been really paying attention to that

who do you think horny is?

 

[msparish]

Stockton...and it's not even close. People have Nash's best two years in their memory right now, while Stockton was in his prime 15 years ago. In his prime, Stockton was just as good of a scorer as Nash. For example, in 89-90:

17.2 ppg
14.5 apg
2.6 rpg
2.7 steals
51.4 FG%
41.6 3P%

Nash has had a couple of very good seasons, but career-wise he is barely a top 10 PG (if that). Stockton has 8 seasons with more assists per game than Nash's best. Stockton did have Malone...but Nash had Amare and Marion in his best year. Trade Malone for those two, and the Jazz win a few championships.

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: AntMan530

Originally posted by: ElFenix
and horny's habit of wiping down the side of his face before every free throw to say hi to his wife was pretty annoying. just shoot the damn ball already. almost as bad as nomar garciapara

haha...isnt this a jeff hornceck habit? or does nash does this too? havent been really paying attention to that

who do you think horny is?

Hahahahaha. This is where AntMan530 says "Doh!!"

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: msparish
Stockton...and it's not even close. People have Nash's best two years in their memory right now, while Stockton was in his prime 15 years ago. In his prime, Stockton was just as good of a scorer as Nash. For example, in 89-90:

17.2 ppg
14.5 apg
2.6 rpg
2.7 steals
51.4 FG%
41.6 3P%

Nash has had a couple of very good seasons, but career-wise he is barely a top 10 PG (if that). Stockton has 8 seasons with more assists per game than Nash's best. Stockton did have Malone...but Nash had Amare and Marion in his best year. Trade Malone for those two, and the Jazz win a few championships.

Nash's best year is this year, not last, first things first. He did not have Amare.
18.8ppg, 10.5 apg, 4.2rpg, 0.8 steals, 51.2%FG, 43.9%3pt, 92.1%FT.

Let's look at Stockton:17.2 ppg 14.5 apg, 2.6 rpg, 2.7 steals, 51.4 FG%, 41.6% 3pt, 81.9%FT.

Nash looks more impressive because he doesn't have Amare (a great finisher like Malone) and while down in steals/assists, he wins in reb and 10% better FT%.

Also, it's mentioned that Amare has the potential to be a great HoFame finisher like Malone, but during Nash's two best years so far he hasn't had that. Whereas in Stockton's best year/s he had Malone and still doesn't definitively beat Nash out. You be the judge.

 

[Miramonti]

Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

I was wondering when your esteemed analysis of comparing a 19 year career to a 10 would show up. Rofl, and if the Suns really were a "no defense team" then Kobe would have went for 50 every night and they would have won the series. Thanks, try again.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole
Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

I was wondering when your esteemed analysis of comparing a 19 year career to a 10 would show up. Rofl, and if the Suns really were a "no defense team" then Kobe would have went for 50 every night and they would have won the series. Thanks, try again.

Thank you for bringing that up - those are number and not totals - where Stockton averaged those numbers for 19 years, including many far past his prime. Nash has had only 2 good seasons and when its all said and done will have a shadow of a career that Stockton had.

As far as first 10 year totals:

Assists

Nash: 5006
Stockton: 9383

Steals

Nash: 569
Stockton: 2031


So please quit blowing smoke up your @ss about how great Nash is.

 

[chuckywang]

I look at Nash's stats, and I do not see MVP numbers. Are these MVP stats?

 

[Barfo]

Stockton FTW

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jjsole
flops per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

flop to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's flop-trophy. Add Stockton's awesome flopping, and the fact Nash plays on a no-flopper team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's flop-ability. The fact Nash has two mvp's is a credit to his non-flopping.

 

[Lyfer]

Nash doesn't defend, didn stockton lead the league in steals a couple times?

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: jjsole
flops per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

flop to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's flop-trophy. Add Stockton's awesome flopping, and the fact Nash plays on a no-flopper team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's flop-ability. The fact Nash has two mvp's is a credit to his non-flopping.

BS, he'd do everything he could to get a win. However 2k steals in his first 10 years is not theatrics. Nash however doesn't act much, and he defends even less tho.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Lyfer
Nash doesn't defend, didn stockton lead the league in steals a couple times?

Yep, twice.

 

[Miramonti]

John Stockton

* Selected in 1996 as one of the "50 Greatest Players in NBA History"

* NBA's all-time leader in assists (15,806) and in steals (3,265)

* Two-time All-NBA First Team selection (1993-94 and 1994-95), six-time All-NBA Second Team selection (1987-90, 1991-92, 1992-93, and 1995-96), and three-time All-NBA Third Team selection (1990-91, 1996-97, 1998-99).

* Five-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1988-89, 1990-92, 1994-95, 1996-97).

* Ten-time NBA All-Star selection who played in nine consecutive games from 1989 to 1997, averaging 7.8 ppg, 8.2 apg and 1.67 spg

* Named co-MVP with teammate Karl Malone of the 1993 All-Star Game in Salt Lake City, dishing out 15 assists, with nine points and six rebounds

* Holds the league record for most seasons with the same franchise (19; 1984-85 through 2002-03)

* Finished the 2002-03 season with 19,711 points

* Ranks second on the NBA's all-time list in games played (1,504)

* Broke John Havlicek's record of 1,270 games played with one franchise when he suited up for the Jazz vs. Detroit on 11/26/00.

* Played in every game in 17 of his 19 seasons.

* Missed only four games in his first 13 NBA seasons, all in 1989-90, before missing the first 18 games of the 1997-98 season while recovering from off-season left knee arthroscopic surgery.

* Played in 609 consecutive games from 2/13/90 through 4/20/97, the eighth-longest streak in NBA history.

* Holds record for most seasons leading league in assists (nine, 1987-88 through 1995-96), most assists in a single season (1,164 in 1990-91), and highest single-season assists-per-game average (14.5 in 1989-90).

* Accounted for seven of the nine seasons of 1,000 or more assists in league history (Kevin Porter and Isiah Thomas) and posted the top four single-season assist totals.

* Served up the 15,000th assist of his career at Houston on 3/10/02.

* Became the all-time NBA steals leader in a 112-98 victory over the Boston Celtics on 2/20/96, breaking Maurice Cheeks' record of 2,310.

* Led the NBA in steals in 1988-89 (3.21 spg) and 1991-92 (2.98 spg)

* Finished 2002-03 with a career field-goal percentage of .515, the fourth-best percentage by a guard in NBA history behind Lewis Lloyd (.524), Maurice Cheeks (.523) and Magic Johnson (.520).

* Participated in the NBA Playoffs in all 19 of his seasons.

* Appeared in the 1997 and 1998 NBA Finals against the Chicago Bulls, averaging 12.3 ppg, 8.8 apg, and 2.0 spg, while shooting .495 (55-111) in 12 contests.

* Hit the game-winning three-pointer at the buzzer in a 103-100 victory over the Houston Rockets in Game Six of the 1997 Western Conference Finals to propel the Jazz to their first trip to the NBA Finals.

* Matched the NBA Playoffs single-game record with 24 assists against the L.A. Lakers in Game Five of the 1988 Western Conference Semifinals

* A member of the men's basketball "Dream Team" that won the gold medal at the 1992 Summer Olympics in Barcelona and the 1996 Dream Team that won gold in Atlanta.

* During career, named NBA Player of the Week six times and Player of the Month once (February, 1988).

 

[Miramonti]

Steve Nash

* NBA Most Valuable Player,
2004-05, 2005-06

* All-NBA First Team, 2004-05

* NBA Western Conference Player of the Month, November 2004

* Ranked first in NBA in assists per game (career-high 11.5)

* 2003-04 All-Interview Team

* 2003 All-NBA Third Team

* Three-time NBA All-Star (2002, 2003, 2005)

* 2002 All-NBA Third Team

* Ranked 17th in the NBA in three-point field-goal percentage with .403 in 1999-2000.

* Led the Suns in 1997-98, and ranked 13th in the NBA, in three-point percentage (.415)

* Finished third, with Michele Timms of the WNBA's Phoenix Mercury, in the inaugural Nestle Crunch All-Star 2ball during All-Star Saturday

* Participated in the Schick Rookie Game during the 1997 NBA All-Star Weekend in Cleveland

* Posted rookie season-highs of 17 points, 12 assists and 7 rebounds, in his first career NBA start and his British Columbia homecoming, against the Vancouver Grizzlies on 11/14/96 Named West Coast Conference Player of the Year in 1995 and 1996

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole
Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

I was wondering when your esteemed analysis of comparing a 19 year career to a 10 would show up. Rofl, and if the Suns really were a "no defense team" then Kobe would have went for 50 every night and they would have won the series. Thanks, try again.

Thank you for bringing that up - those are number and not totals - where Stockton averaged those numbers for 19 years, including many far past his prime. Nash has had only 2 good seasons and when its all said and done will have a shadow of a career that Stockton had.

As far as first 10 year totals:

Assists

Nash: 5006
Stockton: 9383

Steals

Nash: 569
Stockton: 2031


So please quit blowing smoke up your @ss about how great Nash is.

Still comparing 10 years to 19 w/out Nash having a HoFer like Malone? Wow you're dense. Thankfully you don't work for ESPN, or you'd be fired in about an hour for making such a stupid comparison. Nothing you say can be taken seriously again.

 

[imported_Scourge]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole
Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

I was wondering when your esteemed analysis of comparing a 19 year career to a 10 would show up. Rofl, and if the Suns really were a "no defense team" then Kobe would have went for 50 every night and they would have won the series. Thanks, try again.

Thank you for bringing that up - those are number and not totals - where Stockton averaged those numbers for 19 years, including many far past his prime. Nash has had only 2 good seasons and when its all said and done will have a shadow of a career that Stockton had.

As far as first 10 year totals:

Assists

Nash: 5006
Stockton: 9383

Steals

Nash: 569
Stockton: 2031


So please quit blowing smoke up your @ss about how great Nash is.

Still comparing 10 years to 19? Wow you're dense. Thankfully you don't work for ESPN, or you'd be fired in about an hour for making such a stupid comparison. Nothing you say can be taken seriously again.

Isn't he comparing 10 year totals?

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Scourge

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: jjsole
Assists per game:
Nash: 7.1
Stockton: 10.5

Assist to turnover ratio:

Nash: 2.93
Stockton: 3.72

Nash can't even hold Stockton's bags. Add Stockton's awesome defense, and the fact Nash plays on a no-defense team, its irrational to put nash even near being in stockton's league. The fact Nash has two mvp's is no less delirious.

I was wondering when your esteemed analysis of comparing a 19 year career to a 10 would show up. Rofl, and if the Suns really were a "no defense team" then Kobe would have went for 50 every night and they would have won the series. Thanks, try again.

Thank you for bringing that up - those are number and not totals - where Stockton averaged those numbers for 19 years, including many far past his prime. Nash has had only 2 good seasons and when its all said and done will have a shadow of a career that Stockton had.

As far as first 10 year totals:

Assists

Nash: 5006
Stockton: 9383

Steals

Nash: 569
Stockton: 2031


So please quit blowing smoke up your @ss about how great Nash is.

Still comparing 10 years to 19? Wow you're dense. Thankfully you don't work for ESPN, or you'd be fired in about an hour for making such a stupid comparison. Nothing you say can be taken seriously again.

Isn't he comparing 10 year totals?

Yes I edited it. He was comparing totals for Nash when Stockton has played with a HoF all his career. That's just utterly stupid.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: jjsole
Steve Nash

* NBA Most Valuable Player,
2004-05, 2005-06

* All-NBA First Team, 2004-05

* NBA Western Conference Player of the Month, November 2004

* Ranked first in NBA in assists per game (career-high 11.5)

* 2003-04 All-Interview Team

* 2003 All-NBA Third Team

* Three-time NBA All-Star (2002, 2003, 2005)

* 2002 All-NBA Third Team

* Ranked 17th in the NBA in three-point field-goal percentage with .403 in 1999-2000.

* Led the Suns in 1997-98, and ranked 13th in the NBA, in three-point percentage (.415)

* Finished third, with Michele Timms of the WNBA's Phoenix Mercury, in the inaugural Nestle Crunch All-Star 2ball during All-Star Saturday

* Participated in the Schick Rookie Game during the 1997 NBA All-Star Weekend in Cleveland

* Posted rookie season-highs of 17 points, 12 assists and 7 rebounds, in his first career NBA start and his British Columbia homecoming, against the Vancouver Grizzlies on 11/14/96 Named West Coast Conference Player of the Year in 1995 and 1996

What does this have to do with anything? Anyone can post accolades from a 19 year career vs a 10, again. And you still never even mentioned that Stockton played with a HoFer his whole career, your argument is trash.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I look at Nash's stats, and I do not see MVP numbers. Are these MVP stats?

I would say leading the league in assists and shooting % easily warrants an MVP. Only Bird, Reggie Miller, and Price ever reached the 50/40/90 shooting percentages.