STICKY: ATi 5xxx pre-release thread

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
Here are images of the 5870: http://gathering.tweakers.net/.../view_message/32550799

This card is too long...
It seems to me that the chip is not so large (more than 420mm2) like BSN was saying:

http://www.brightsideofnews.co...-pricing-revealed.aspx

So why they need so long card?

ATI must be using more chips.

Maybe ATI seperated the display controllers from the main chip and they using seperate chips like what G80 had with the NVIO's chips.

I am pretty sure i'll hear this as a "news story" somewhere. (i want credit, lol)

If ATI seperated the display controllers from the main chip, then this means that the GPU chip will not be that large as we first originally expected. (and certainly nowhere near in the 420mm2 figure)

For these specs (80TUs, 1600SPs) i originally wrote 370mm2 (highest estimation) when we heard the 1600SPs news (chiphell?, i don't remember), if they seperated the display controllers, it will be lower than that...

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: LifesABeta
...and here's some details http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=11135

cannot wait to see what the 5870x2 is going to offer!

Why didn't Mark posted the news here?

I don't know if Mark's sources are correct, but i spotted one strange thing.


5850 unlike all the previous XX50 models will have cut down TU/SPs

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

Originally posted by: yacoub
And no doubt an 80db fan and 90C temp.

I'm so tired of the loud, hot GPUs ATI's released the last several generations, particularly given their smaller die sizes. I'd hate to have to declock it to get it to run at what I feel is an acceptable temperature. Oh well. Whoever makes a quieter, more effective hsf to attach to ATI cards should make a fortune.

/fail

You don't realize this uses a 40nm manufacturing process. This will certainly play a role in keeping everything cool.

Why the fuck are you complaining about a product that you, I and hardly anyone here barely knows about. And your complaining isn't even about performance, its about a cooling solution.

Some people.

Settle down dude.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

If that isn't a troll i don't know what is.

If my 4830 idles at 32-35C and doesn't hit 50C with no fan or clock adjustments with a wimpy dual slot HSF, then its obvious ATI cards do NOT have temp problems. If he wants to talk about bad temps I can refer him to my 8800GTS 320mb. Enough said on that.

 

[dguy6789]

I did some simple math and came up with this for the 5870 based on the clocks from Alien Babel Tech:

Radeon HD 5870

153.6GB/sec Memory Bandwidth
2720 GFLOPS
27200 M/pixels per second
68000 M/texels per second

Radeon HD 4890

124.8GB/sec Memory Bandwidth
1360 GFLOPS
13600 M/pixels per second
34000 M/texels per second

Geforce GTX 285

158.976GB/sec Memory Bandwidth
1062.72 GFLOPS
20736 M/pixels per second
51840 M/texels per second

The 5870 surpasses the 4870x2 in every aspect except memory bandwidth.

 

[Compddd]

I can't wait to return this GTX 285 like a bad habit and pick up one of these bad boys

Going to feel good to be red again

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
If that isn't a troll i don't know what is.

If my 4830 idles at 32-35C and doesn't hit 50C with no fan or clock adjustments with a wimpy dual slot HSF, then its obvious ATI cards do NOT have temp problems. If he wants to talk about bad temps I can refer him to my 8800GTS 320mb. Enough said on that.

A 4830 also had only 640 shaders clocked at 575 stock. GDDR3 memory which runs pretty cool at 1800MHz.

I think what yacoub might be getting at, is, for the die size, AMD GPU's pump out a lot more heat than expected, requiring higher fan speeds to cool them resulting in a higher noise level. I don't really subscribe to the unstable at 90C thing he was implying, but YMMV I suppose.

P.S. 8800GTS 320 was on a 80nm manufacturing process. Still clocked at over 500MHz. But it also had a 576mm2 die. Which probably still throws out less heat than a 55nm 4890 on a 200+mm2 die. I'll look those numbers up in a few minutes, if you want.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I don't need specific technical numbers.

Fact is, my Zotac 8800GTS 320mb w/ standard stock cooler idles at 60-75C in my Antec P180 case, and hits 95C when gaming. I'm not saying it's an entirely bad thing about heat, because the card still functions perfectly to this day, but I really doubt ATI and Nvidia both are going to produce a high-end card with an inadequate cooling solution again.

The problem with his statement is that neither he, I, or anyone here actually has the card in question. So bashing it based off of size without regard to the applied cooling solution holds no ground. It's truly a case where someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I don't need specific technical numbers.

Fact is, my Zotac 8800GTS 320mb w/ standard stock cooler idles at 60-75C in my Antec P180 case, and hits 95C when gaming. I'm not saying it's an entirely bad thing about heat, because the card still functions perfectly to this day, but I really doubt ATI and Nvidia both are going to produce a high-end card with an inadequate cooling solution again.

The problem with his statement is that neither he, I, or anyone here actually has the card in question. So bashing it based off of size without regard to the applied cooling solution holds no ground. It's truly a case where someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

The same would hold true for "supporting" or "defending" this product as well as "bashing" it. Going purely on AMD's last few releases, they've all been pretty hot chips with loud coolers when cranked up enough to keep the cards at what the user "feels" is a comfortable load temp. Some people don't care, some do. No biggie.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

wow man, a 5870 could probably do every game at high quality 8xAA 16xQAF, max details at that resolution, and still give playable framerates. only ones you might dip below 40-50fps on would be gtaIV, crysis, ARMA2, & clearsky.

 

[Jacen]

I can confirm the number of SPs at 1600, though a bit less for the 5850. These were the same numbers passed my way. And if you notice, their wattage figures are almost spot on what I posted here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2332709&enterthread=y.

And on a side note, yes the high end card will double that and peak around 310W.

 

[firewolfsm]

Those SPs are definitely bandwidth limited, if the 5850 has the same memory chips, except a less than proportional drop in performance with the SP decrease.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Tempered81
the nordic story thilan posted got pulled, but here it is:

A few weeks ago there were reports of another member of AMD's graphics card family Evergreen. The card was code-named Trillian and would not use a special GPU but instead be a very special model. There were talks about three graphics processor but more likely it would be a card with extra display outputs. We have learned that the card will be called Radeon HD 5870 Six and support no less than six monitors, all with 3D functionality.
Many are perhaps wondering how AMD managed to fit no less than six display outputs on the back of the same graphics card. The answer is DisplayPort, or more precise Mini DisplayPort.
The interface, used quite frequently by Apple, supports resolutions up to 2560x1600 pixels through a connector that is only a fraction of the size of a regular DVI output.
The 3D support across multiple monitors have been improved significantly with the coming Evergreen family and Radeon HD 5870 Six will take this to a whole new level. Theoretically you could connect six monitors to one and the same graphics card, with tailored resolutions. Something that should not only appeal to simulator fans but also regular gamers, or why not just use it run of the mill applications.
According to the info we received all cards of the Evergreen family will work a lot better with multiple monitors, something we're truly looking forward to seeing more of. AMD has talked about better support for multiple monitors for many years, and finally it's happening, and the exact shape and form will be revealed soon.
We can also confirm the price information on Radeon HD 5850 and Radeon HD 5870, and they will be 299USD and 399USD respectively.
Even if we don't have any benchmarks to share, we have it on good authority that AMD's new Radeon HD 5800 series will bring between 25-40% better performance than current generation, depending on games and application.
The card will use 1GB GDDR5 memory but 2GB models are to be expected. We have learned a bit about the overclocking potential and it seems the 40nm technology has matured well. There are talks about overclocking to 1GHz GPU with the reference cooler, which is on par with the current flagship Radeon HD 4890 in terms of overclocking ability.
We hope to learn more about AMD's Evergreen family soon, very soon, and we will be covering the launch of the first DirectX 11 graphics cards. A launch where performance and features are almost equally important.

25-40% improvement would absolutely NOT justify a 150% price increase, that would not be much faster than gtx 285. hope those numbers are wrong, or that amd lowers prices muy rapido.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: Tempered81

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

wow man, a 5870 could probably do every game at high quality 8xAA 16xQAF, max details at that resolution, and still give playable framerates. only ones you might dip below 40-50fps on would be gtaIV, crysis, ARMA2, & clearsky.

I'm not looking to get the 5870; I was hoping for the sub- or around-$200 5800 series, but I won't get a new card unless I come across some cash.

At $400 the 4870 will cost more than half of what my computer cost when I built it.

 

[Tempered81]

I think they mean 20-40% over a 4870x2

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Tempered81
I think they mean 20-40% over a 4870x2

if they meant THAT then they should have been more clear. In fact, how do you read that? wouldn't 5870x2 be 25-40% faster than 4870x2??? or do you somehow read that to mean that 5870 is 25-40% faster and 5870x2 will somehow, magically, be, um, 150-180% faster than 4870x2????

 

[happy medium]

I'd bet they meant the 5850 will be 25/40% faster then the 4890?

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Originally posted by: Tempered81
I think they mean 20-40% over a 4870x2

if they meant THAT then they should have been more clear. In fact, how do you read that? wouldn't 5870x2 be 25-40% faster than 4870x2??? or do you somehow read that to mean that 5870 is 25-40% faster and 5870x2 will somehow, magically, be, um, 150-180% faster than 4870x2????

Well I think it means a 5870 is 20-40% faster than a 4870x2 because:

rumored vantage scores on cypress (5850/5870) are 16000, 18000, and 21,000 for vantage performance. A 4870x2 scores 15,000. The latest rumor from the italian forum claiming that andre yang has 4 5870s and he's score P21000 on a single card and P60,000 on 4 cards. I think a 5850 will compete with a 4870x2 and a 5870 (at 20-40% faster than the x2) will trade blows with a gtx295, or be even faster.

As for R800 being "150-180%" faster than 4870x2, my opinion is more like ~110-130% faster.

Plus if a 5870 is "20-40%" faster than 4890/285, then the 5850 is going to be almost about the same speed as a 285. This is unlikely, imo considering a 285 scores about 13,000 in vantage P.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

My eyes popped out when I upgraded from the HD 3850 to this cards because of the performance difference between both. The performance improvements in games when Anti Aliasing is used is quite often between 2 and 2.5 times faster, and if the HD 5800 series are at least 2 times faster, upgrading from your current card to the 5800 series will bring you 4 times or more performance, that will make your eyes explode like in Ren and Stimpy.

 

[allthatisman]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
I don't need specific technical numbers.

Fact is, my Zotac 8800GTS 320mb w/ standard stock cooler idles at 60-75C in my Antec P180 case, and hits 95C when gaming. I'm not saying it's an entirely bad thing about heat, because the card still functions perfectly to this day, but I really doubt ATI and Nvidia both are going to produce a high-end card with an inadequate cooling solution again.

The problem with his statement is that neither he, I, or anyone here actually has the card in question. So bashing it based off of size without regard to the applied cooling solution holds no ground. It's truly a case where someone doesn't know what they are talking about.

The same would hold true for "supporting" or "defending" this product as well as "bashing" it. Going purely on AMD's last few releases, they've all been pretty hot chips with loud coolers when cranked up enough to keep the cards at what the user "feels" is a comfortable load temp. Some people don't care, some do. No biggie.

Umm they have ALL been hot chips, both ATI and Nvidia... I am in Sacramento, CA and sitting at 80 degrees F *ambient* at 9:40 pm and my 4870x2 is sitting at 61 degrees C... just with iTunes and Internet Explorer running. My buddy has an equal Nvidia system with 2xGTX 260's and he can attest that they heat the room up just as bad.


That is the state of affairs....


You want awesome GPU leaps every year...? The energy used is going to be the last thing they worry about. As most of you have demonstrated, FPS is really all you care about, and thus, all they are going to strive towards. Effeciency is a total after thought...

If ATI came out with a new 5870 that had the same performance as the 4890, but used half the amount of power, you would all post, " well I hope Nvidia brings their A-game, because I am saving my money."

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

My eyes popped out when I upgraded from the HD 3850 to this cards because of the performance difference between both. The performance improvements in games when Anti Aliasing is used is quite often between 2 and 2.5 times faster, and if the HD 5800 series are at least 2 times faster, upgrading from your current card to the 5800 series will bring you 4 times or more performance, that will make your eyes explode like in Ren and Stimpy.

[thumbs_up] @ Nickelodeon reference

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Tempered81

Well I think it means a 5870 is 20-40% faster than a 4870x2 because:

20-40% faster than their last X2 card? Setting expectations rather high, no?

You realize both 4870 and 280 were slower than the previous gen's gx2 card, right?

 

[Tempered81]

A 4870 is nowhere near "slower" than a 3870x2. Talking only ati's architecture (9800gx2 excluded here), a 3870x2 performs about the same as a 4850 or nvidia's 9800gtx+, a 4870 being 20% faster. You can see AT's benches here:
http://images.anandtech.com/gr...062408145208/17130.png
http://images.anandtech.com/gr...062408145208/17131.png

Talking only nv the 9800gx2 vs. gtx280: they trade blows. My guess is most would prefer to have the 280 or even an ATi 4890 over the 9800gx2. I don't have much speculation concerning gtx380 vs. gtx295, but I would like to believe it won't be "slower" either.




From xs:
9800gx2 128SPX2 Core Clock 600 MHz Shader Clock:1500
GTX280 240SP Core Clock 600 Mhz Shader Clock:1300

4870X2 800SPX2 Core Clock 750 Mhz
5870 1600SP Core Clock 850 Mhz

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln

Originally posted by: Tempered81

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Mmm, a new AA/AF algorithm. I'll be very tempted to get one of these 5000 series cards. At 1280x1024, I need all the AA I can get, and in newer games the 3850 just can't handle high AA with high details.

wow man, a 5870 could probably do every game at high quality 8xAA 16xQAF, max details at that resolution, and still give playable framerates. only ones you might dip below 40-50fps on would be gtaIV, crysis, ARMA2, & clearsky.

I'm not looking to get the 5870; I was hoping for the sub- or around-$200 5800 series, but I won't get a new card unless I come across some cash.

At $400 the 4870 will cost more than half of what my computer cost when I built it.

your cpu will even bottleneck the crap out of a current 4870 so a 5850 or 5870 would be a ridiculous waste anyway especially at 1280. you wouldnt even get 50% of what a card like that is capable of in many newer games. even at 3.0 your X2 cpu is only like a current Core 2 Duo at 2.0-2.2 so please get a new platform if you are considering a card like the 5850 or so.