All of the "exquisitely detailed" responses are opinion, just like mine. And the vast majority will of course align against anything that can be used to cast a shadow on Trump. This is a very progressive forum, and a mildly hostel one. Those things are a given.
On the topic at hand, certainly the words of our leaders set a "tone" for the nation, and certainly they can incite violence, especially when dealing with large crowds. Crowds are stupid, as the number of people increases the average IQ decreases. Social media allows us to have a scattered crowd mentality, an echo chamber of whatever it is we want to believe. None of that absolves anyone of personal responsibility to any degree.
The fellow that mailed out a bunch of dud bombs was going to do something stupid with or without Trump. The fellow that murdered those people in the synagogue sure as hell wasn't listening to Trump.
Lets take it a step further down Perk, lets have a look at our little piece of society right here. How come personal insults and name calling are allowed here? Tell me why hostility is allowed here. Who set that tone, who made the decision that those things are acceptable? Doesn't it always start at the top? Was it Anand that decided they were acceptable?
You accuse me of bias, you say I device myself because I don't agree with you're opinion. My response is to look at the community you created, at what is accepted and what is rejected. Actions speak far louder than words.
You have an issue with the way the forums are moderated?
Complain in MD not in the thread.
esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
Stay calm & don't let 'em get to you. It's what they want.
I think the problem is fear. You have,demonstrated a desire for reasonable discussion but at the same time show evidence that, to my mind, indicates you are not capable of it because that which seems perfectly obvious and needlessly contestable, are things with which you seem to fundamentally disagree. This, in my opinion, makes you appear to be a double threat. On the one hand you want to talk reasonably or so you think and this confounds you when people, responding to your seeming unreasonableness, attack you our of fear. If there is one thing more terrifying to a liberal than irrationality, it is irrationality disguising itself as rational. Because I find your condition to be the inevitable result of a certain kind of conditioning over which you personally had no control, I can't find a reasonable reason to blame you or a reasonable reason to justify whatever fear you may cause me. I can discuss anything with you but I don't begin with any hope of success. I just wish you could see what I see and be free. I also don't mind if this sounds to you to be condescending. You are OK by me. This is what I call a reasonable discussion.An absolutely perfect example of what I'm talking about. No content, just anger and hostility. You aren't interested in differing thoughts or opinions, you want nothing more than an echo chamber of you're beliefs. When you don't get that you turn into another keyboard tough guy. Take a look at the topic we're discussing, then ask yourself where your rhetoric fits into it. If you agree with what Perk posted, then you're part of the problem. You can't have it both way's, though I doubt you can understand that.
I've never claimed to be a victim. I come here voluntary despite the fact that the vast majority of opinions here don't align with my own. I read what a lot of you fellows have to say, and sometimes add my own opinions. I don't care if they're popular, I don't care if they get "liked", that's not what I'm looking for. Hard as it might be for you to believe, I actually seek out different ideas and opinions. Once in a while that information changes how I view a differing ideas.
You claim to give me the opportunity to have a "reasonable discussion", yet you respond with profanity and name calling if I don't agree with you. That's not reasonable, that's an emotional response form someone that doesn't want reasonable discussion, you want to be right, you want a coalition of like minded people to agree with you. You want affirmation, not a differing point of view.
On the topic at hand, certainly the words of our leaders set a "tone" for the nation, and certainly they can incite violence, especially when dealing with large crowds. Crowds are stupid, as the number of people increases the average IQ decreases.
A new victim has stepped forward.
No, I just don't enjoy pandering to idiots and having pointless debates on the internet with people who are either trolling or too thick to accept they're wrong about something.
I also find someone being disingenuous and propagating lies 100 times more insulting than using foul language, that's just me though. Maybe my priorities are all wrong.
When rolling around in the mud, third parties will have no idea how to distinguish Trump VS Normal people.
Going high doesn't seem to be helping much lately.
Bingo!You have,demonstrated a desire for reasonable discussion but at the same time show evidence that, to my mind, indicates you are not capable of it because that which seems perfectly obvious and needlessly contestable, are things with which you seem to fundamentally disagree.
It is a reasonable discussion moonie. It's calm, ideas are expressed and exchanged.I think the problem is fear. You have,demonstrated a desire for reasonable discussion but at the same time show evidence that, to my mind, indicates you are not capable of it because that which seems perfectly obvious and needlessly contestable, are things with which you seem to fundamentally disagree. This, in my opinion, makes you appear to be a double threat. On the one hand you want to talk reasonably or so you think and this confounds you when people, responding to your seeming unreasonableness, attack you our of fear. If there is one thing more terrifying to a liberal than irrationality, it is irrationality disguising itself as rational. Because I find your condition to be the inevitable result of a certain kind of conditioning over which you personally had no control, I can't find a reasonable reason to blame you or a reasonable reason to justify whatever fear you may cause me. I can discuss anything with you but I don't begin with any hope of success. I just wish you could see what I see and be free. I also don't mind if this sounds to you to be condescending. You are OK by me. This is what I call a reasonable discussion.
It is a reasonable discussion moonie. It's calm, ideas are expressed and exchanged.
I never once claimed to be infallible, and I never once claimed that my beliefs are the answer to the worlds problems. What I have claimed here, and what is demonstrable, is that in this forum dissenting opinion is met with hostility. I didn't say it had to stop, I didn't bemoan the unfairness of it, but I reject the concept that it's due to others being stupid. That's the ultimate cop out, that's the admission that you aren't capable of articulating your own position, and probably don't even understand it. That's the real source of the anger, that's what makes the foolish hurl insults instead of concepts.
To the topic at hand, I admitted that the words and ideas of our leaders can help shape the thinking of others, but along with that is 100% responsibility for ones own words and actions. The entire point of this thread is to lay blame at Trumps feet for his attitude. Trump is a low class ass that demeans the office of the president. But that doesn't absolve anyone of the crimes they commit. It doesn't allow any wiggle room in judging that persons guilt or what their sentence should be. It always comes down to personal responsibility. I can decide I hate the Irish, I can attend rally's where we discuss how to stop the Irish infestation in our nation, I can listen to the president talk about building a wall around Ireland to contain the scum, but as soon as I take any action, the responsibility is entirely mine.
You see the point jhhnn makes in post 37? That is the problem I have with your post. I agree with everything you say here with a minor exception, but it isn't the real issue. Everything you said is an automatic, assumed without question. People who commit violent actions are are the ones who must not escape accountability bu claiming somebody else provoked them. My problem with your post is that this is where you focus, as if there were some question about the truth you have presented. We are actually, in my opinion, talking about something else beyond that, stochastic terrorism. Here the issue is that within our society at any one time there is an unknown but real number of individuals who CAN be provoked to violence by provocative language from our leaders and that is why they are morally bound not to engage in that behavior. They are themselves responsible for setting off the insane if they don't exercise discretion. Trump does not have that discretion and should be removed from office for that alone in addition to a thousand other reasons. You stand on completely moral ground, in my opinion, but it is irrelevant to the issue. It is this irrelevancy to the real issue, in my mind that drives some of us crazy and brings out the insults. People see you as responsible for not comprehending the issue, feel threatened by it, you look to be defending the real bad guy, and they want you to suffer for that. I would prefer to try to persuade you that the problem is not as you see it although, and even though, what you do see is right. Trump's actions provoke people to do violent acts they must be punished for. He should be punished too because it is a stochastic inevitable result, stochastic inevitably that his provocations will have the results we see.It is a reasonable discussion moonie. It's calm, ideas are expressed and exchanged.
I never once claimed to be infallible, and I never once claimed that my beliefs are the answer to the worlds problems. What I have claimed here, and what is demonstrable, is that in this forum dissenting opinion is met with hostility. I didn't say it had to stop, I didn't bemoan the unfairness of it, but I reject the concept that it's due to others being stupid. That's the ultimate cop out, that's the admission that you aren't capable of articulating your own position, and probably don't even understand it. That's the real source of the anger, that's what makes the foolish hurl insults instead of concepts.
To the topic at hand, I admitted that the words and ideas of our leaders can help shape the thinking of others, but along with that is 100% responsibility for ones own words and actions. The entire point of this thread is to lay blame at Trumps feet for his attitude. Trump is a low class ass that demeans the office of the president. But that doesn't absolve anyone of the crimes they commit. It doesn't allow any wiggle room in judging that persons guilt or what their sentence should be. It always comes down to personal responsibility. I can decide I hate the Irish, I can attend rally's where we discuss how to stop the Irish infestation in our nation, I can listen to the president talk about building a wall around Ireland to contain the scum, but as soon as I take any action, the responsibility is entirely mine.
I suppose you have to ask if the "stochastic terrorists'" primary motivation is to foster divisiveness and hatred, or if they are just failing to "police their own" effectively.
I meant in the absolute broadest sense of applying the label. I was NOT referring to Trump--of course he has no intention of reigning in the madness he spreads.Please. Trump has no intention of policing the insanity he fosters. It's impossible, anyway. He spreads fear & hatred at every rally.
https://youtu.be/mkN6sZ3VAtE