Stop pushing ASIII!!!!

[mrman3k]

From now on I am recommending Arctic Silver Cermique as it IS better than AS3. I think it is only because it did not have a huge product launch that is the reason it is not being widely used. It certainly can perform a few degrees cooler than AS3.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

OK, I'll except that it's safe to use water with a CPU, you've won me over to that as being true. However (you knew that was coming ) it is inefficent and why should I wait for some time for the CPU to dry or actively dry it when I can use an alternative method that takes far less time. In fact before you're done cleaning it in the sink I'll have mine re-installed and running. I also do not see a water resistant depth rating on any AMD or Intel specs sheet As for my choice of the term dumb that was in keeping with the drama aspect as it's slow around here and I do believe n00bs can benefit from being exposed to very real and effective alternatives to the ASIII mantra which is repeated ad nauseum around here. I've furthermore found that drama helps a thread stay exposed and creating it with the computer enthusiast is as simple as making pavlov's dogs salivate Just attack an entrenched, widely used, and venerated product they use and they will here the bell ringing.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
I don't go on public websites advocating doing so, that is my main reason for posting, so people will think about it.

Well let's think about this for a second... what, exactly, would you do with your "less than biodegradable" materials? Is it better to throw away a rag with traces of silver (or whatever) on it, knowing that landfills get rain just like everywhere else? Or do we package all trash in non-degradable bags so it never seeps into the ground water, just sits there for hundreds-> thousands of years? AFAIK, silver isn't especially toxic anyway.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
OK, I'll except that it's safe to use water with a CPU, you've won me over to that as being true. However (you knew that was coming ) it is inefficent and why should I wait for some time for the CPU to dry or actively dry it when I can use an alternative method that takes far less time. In fact before you're done cleaning it in the sink I'll have mine re-installed and running. I also do not see a water resistant depth rating on any AMD or Intel specs sheet As for my choice of the term dumb that was in keeping with the drama aspect as it's slow around here and I do believe n00bs can benefit from being exposed to very real and effective alternatives to the ASIII mantra which is repeated ad nauseum around here. I've furthermore found that drama helps a thread stay exposed and creating it with the computer enthusiast is as simple as making pavlov's dogs salivate Just attack an entrenched, widely used, and venerated product they use and they will here the bell ringing.

Clean the processor any way you like... If you're in a hurry then certainly your way is better yet less effective at removing every last bit of any compound.

I don't mind drama, my skin is thick enough for quite a bit of it... no problem with it, I'm just interested in getting the facts out in the open too.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: mindless1

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
I don't go on public websites advocating doing so, that is my main reason for posting, so people will think about it.

Well let's think about this for a second... what, exactly, would you do with your "less than biodegradable" materials? Is it better to throw away a rag with traces of silver (or whatever) on it, knowing that landfills get rain just like everywhere else? Or do we package all trash in non-degradable bags so it never seeps into the ground water, just sits there for hundreds-> thousands of years? AFAIK, silver isn't especially toxic anyway.

Well while you're thinking about it a second read this

SECTION 12: ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Environmental Impact Information Avoid runoff into storm sewers and ditches that lead to waterways. Water runoff can cause environmental damage Also read section 13. There's the facts in the open

 

[Regs]

I'm using AS3 and my cpu temp went down 3-5c . And yes it can be bad if you apply to much...but wait...it says here in the manual to NOT APPLY MORE THAN YOU NEED in bold letters.

Matter of fact, I'm about to go stick this on my tooth brush and have a ball. Come join, fun fun.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Regs
I'm using AS3 and my cpu temp went down 3-5c . And yes it can be bad if you apply to much...but wait...it says here in the manual to NOT APPLY MORE THAN YOU NEED in bold letters.

Matter of fact, I'm about to go stick this on my tooth brush and have a ball. Come join, fun fun.

3-5 compared to what? the stock pad?
and since when did the hordes of n00bs some of us are actually trying to help in these forums have a good understanding of what no more than you need is when they never done it?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Clean the processor any way you like... If you're in a hurry then certainly your way is better yet less effective at removing every last bit of any compound.

With shin-etsu there's no reason to remove every vestige of compound, none whatsoever. And 99% isoproply will remove any vestige of compound a lot better than potentially having soap residue clinging to the chip not to mention you will be violating federal law by disposing of the contaminated water using your method.

 

[mindless1]

"Well while you're thinking about it a second read this ".

OK, it's stable, decomposes, and isn't a carcinogen, but shouldn't be dumped in quantity like EVERY substance not found in nature, but this isn't a "spill" quantity either. Does the EPA require that you report if you lost a silver tooth filling down the sink, since that's a larger amount of silver and of course will end up polluting? On the other hand, that's NOT the MSDS for ASIII, but this is beside my point, which is that pollution is relative. As for section 13, it's true, water runoff with ANY foreign substance can cause environmental damage, INCLUDING detergents... do you wash anything?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You're rationalizing this and the law doesn't work that way. It clearly states not to allow it to enter storm drains or ditchs. It does not quantify the size required to be a considered a spill and states explicitly

Dispose of in accordance with all federal, state and local regulations. Water runoff can cause environmental damage

I'm willing to bet any quantity you wash down the drain violates all 3 of those regulatory agencies proclamations concerning the substance. Furthermore I use phosphate free soap and detergents and they are not federally prohibited from entering the water supply. I admitted I was wrong and Appologized for offending you, why can't you be man enough to just admit your wrong?

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Clean the processor any way you like... If you're in a hurry then certainly your way is better yet less effective at removing every last bit of any compound.

With shin-etsu there's no reason to remove every vestige of compound, none whatsoever. And 99% isoproply will remove any vestige of compound a lot better than potentially having soap residue clinging to the chip not to mention you will be violating federal law by disposing of the contaminated water using your method.

It's incredible to me that you need to put so much thought into this... how the heck do you ever get anything useful done? Anyone with two brain cells left in their head can manage to use ASIII or (any other TIM) without any of the problems that you imply are worth consideration. The appropriate phrase might be "It ain't rocket science". If you can't figure out how to use a faucet (hint- water, good for rinsing off detergent, not soap!) then go practice. If you simply prefer to use alcohol that's lovely, but it ultimately makes no difference unless the installer lacks an understanding of "wet" and "dry". I'd venture to guess that most people don't have 99% alcohol sitting at home and that driving to the store is both environmentally unfriendly and more time consuming that just using the cleaning aids available, and waiting a few minutes for it to dry. I can see that this discussion could go on for days, so I'll let you get the last word in, won't be wasting any more time on this thread.

 

[NYHoustonman]

Jesus Christ, no wonder this thread has so many posts. Why the argument over NOTHING?

 

[WarCon]

I personally would like to test some Shin-Etsu (but too poor to buy it just for a test). I also don't have any Ceramique on hand to try.

You may very well be right to recommend Shin-Etsu or Ceramique, but in my opinion you should keep ATOT type banter in ATOT (Name calling, netbonics, etc.) .

I personally have ran many thermal compound tests and there are profound differences in certain types (I judged by temperature and varying points of stability based on thermal compound performance). I can also personally vouche for the longevity factor with Arctic Silver products, but have no data whatsoever on the Shin Etsu.

Anyway, I don't mind your opinions dapunisher (you may very well be absolutely correct).

Edit: Personal remark removed.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
Jesus Christ, no wonder this thread has so many posts. Why the argument over NOTHING?

Read the disclaimer in the first post for the affirmation of your statement

 

[DAPUNISHER]

WarCon

, read the disclaimer in the first post for affirmation of your statement

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Nice appology and thread exit mindless1

 

[FearoftheNight]

kakakaka disrespecting As3??!???! BLASPHEMY!!!! :evil::light:

 

[WarCon]

You should also change your title to "Stop pushing AS3" as there is no critter ASIII.......

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: WarCon
You should also change your title to "Stop pushing AS3" as there is no critter ASIII.......

LOL, there's no 1337 or Nevar, or r0x0rZ, or Nef, or, shiznit either but we all know what the other is saying. I just want people who don't know about these products to be exposed to them. the debate with mindless1 was just a means of keeping the thread high profile, I enjoyed it till he lost his composure and bailed because he couldn't just say he was wrong about something. So tell me. do you wash your CPUs in the sink too

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'd venture to guess that most people don't have 99% alcohol sitting at home and that driving to the store is both environmentally unfriendly and more time consuming that just using the cleaning aids available, and waiting a few minutes for it to dry.

The difference is driving to the store doesn't violate federal regulations for disposal.

 

[KF]

When people start talking about HS compound, I like to bring up the guru I followed for a while on the OCing newsgroup. When he pronounced, everyone listened. He claimed that as long as the two pieces were very flat -the HS bottom and CPU slug, that is- it made no difference what compound you used. He was not interested in polishing his HSs; he honed them in order to make them absolutely flat. At that time AS original was the vogue. But since it was expensive, he refused to use it as a matter of principle. It didn't make any difference, so why should he waste good money. He used margarine. Yes, the butter substitute that is entirely grease and no filler.

When the two surfaces are truely flat, the only function of the HS compound is to fill the roughness in the surface. When the compound is that thin, the temperature drop aross it is also tiny; so tiny that anything solid or liquid gives about the same result.

In point of fact, few people know whether their HS is truly flat, how to make it flat, or even how to determine how flat it is.
CPU slugs are probably flatter than they were a couple of years ago, but at least the Celerons I fooled with were not very flat. Under those circumstances, what is in the HS compound could make a difference. In other words, the reason AS makes a differerence, when it does make a difference, is that a comparatively large amount is needed to fill the gaps.

I believe the silver containing compounds got their start where the surfaces to mated were large in area, and therefore impractical to make extremely flat. (CPU slugs are rather small.) The AS inventor adapted those compounds to CPU use. AS is supposed to be non-conductive electrically. It is probably not a great insulator like plastic, but for practical purposes you should be able to cover the whole CPU with it without causing any electrical problems. I have gotten some on the bridges at times and never worried about it. Quite a few people have tried to use AS to close Athlon bridges, and it has not worked.

I guess it must seem wierd to subject elrctrical things to water, but check what goes on:

When the ICs are soldered to a circuit board, it is coated with a slightly corrosive flux first to make the solder join efficiently. Afterwards the flux is washed off with hot water and detergent in something reminiscent of a car wash, and rinsed. The circuit boards are then kind of cooked to drive off all the water and detergent that inevitably remains under the chips. If you touch a circuit board just after this, you will burn yourself. When I worked repairing circuit boards in a factory, we sometimes got a box of completed boards that were done improperly and gave loads of errors in the automated testers. You cold blow liquid out from underneath the chips with compressed air. ICs need to be impervious to water.

Chips also need to be sealed to protect them from corrosion due to gases in the air (like oxygen), and humidity which accelerates corrosion.

A CPU should be waterproof as it comes from the factory even with the bridges burned open. Burning the bridges open with a laser should seal the plastic about as good as anything. If you cut the bridges, I think the surrounding plastic still seals off anything electrical. The only thing that gets exposed is a grounded metal grid just beneath the plastic and the ends of the wires you have cut.

I really think regular users stick with AS mainly because they are sure of what they are getting. The company appears to have proven itself. I don't personally know about ASIII, because I haven't gone through enough CPU and HS changes to use up my tube of ASII. The tube is tiny, but you only need a drop. Any more and you can't keep from slopping it all over. There is nothing miraculous or super about AS as best as I can determine. I used a very, very flat HS. When I experimented with different compounds and AS I got no difference in temps whatever, that I could attribute to the compound. I did sometimes get a heat rise on some trials, but when I retried, it would go back to normal. Apparently sometimes applications go a little wrong. A phase change pad gave results very close, provided you make sure it gets hot and stays hot a few days. The stuff is thick and oozes out very gradually. After that, it looks very thin, not much different than AS, and it is hard to say the temperature difference is over 1 degree.

 

[WarCon]

Actually I have when I was running a ceramic T-bird. That ceramic held the silver particles and made spot cleaning inefficient. I would then dry my processor with a blow dryer (making sure it never got hotter than I could stand to touch, which would keep it below rated storage temps). Does this make me a bad man or stupid?

I have also done silly things like lapping the cores and heatspreaders. I don't recommend for anyone to do it though.

 

[Regs]

Ok Ill give you the point, but I do so respectfully try not to demeanor people that make such mistakes as these. People should not limit their choices on what to use on their hardware. If they don't know about some thing that could or sound useful to them, then they should read about it first before jumping in. You don't boycott a product because people don't understand it.

 

[clicknext]

Originally posted by: beatle
You'd have to be pretty ham-fisted to get it on the bridges. As "dangerous" as AS3 is, what about heatsinks that don't bolt through the motherboard? Clearly a hazard! You really can't beat the taste of AS3 either.

lol, I got it on my thunderbird bridges. Nothing bad has happened though, even though I couldn't get it all off.

 

[squidman]

ASIII might be bad or whatnot. I dunno. When I got it - i didnt expect no temperature drops. No. Now, my pc worked for longer than 24 hours, and my dropped 1-2 degrees as compared to stock pad! And i contribute that not to AS, but to the properness of installation. AS is nothing special, just a mofin thermal compound.