Look! He talked to me! What an honor!It's worth noting not everyone here is that stupid. But I believe there's some obligation of better informed to impress the gravity of their situation upon dummies, or else risk the consequences exhibited here daily.
Not true at all. It's at the expense of actual human lives that western civilization has advanced quite a bit. The dark ages is a great example of Christianity being strong. And let's not forget all those dudes that Christianity wanted dead, for furthering science and medicine.
The least corrupt society? I think Sweden or Finland holds that title. But really, I don't know if you're being serious. London, for example, was lauded as one of the most financially corrupt areas in the world by some super-heavyweight dude who spoke out against the mafia. Cannae remember his name, sadly.
But forget that, what about the illegal wars? Vietnam and Nicaragua for example. Or what about the war profiteering, where the US has propped up violent dictators, helped them exact slaughter and oppression, then take 'em down and wage war in the designated country? I'd like to hear what Libyans, Iraqis and the Vietnamese have to say about the west's corruption.
Right, just like Christianity. Notice how we can play this game as well; the Christian empire fell into decay, and has since been getting ever weaker. Remember the days when you would be burned at the stake for speaking out against Christianity? Those were righteous days.
I'm from Scotland ya ninny.
Well, no, that's not true. For example, when the European settlers arrived, they set in motion a cycle of violence, rape and slaughter, from which an entire race will never recover; the Native American population today is around 97% lower than it was more than 500 years ago, before the Christians came.
There used to be upwards of 150 million Native Americans. Today? 2.5 Million tops. A prime example of Christianity's tolerance, where Christians enacted sex slavery, rape, slaughter and genocide. Those reservation schools, a more modern continuation of that, only finally shut down in the mid 90s.
I'd wager you're delusional, but it's more like you've just bought into patriotic musings and naivete
Look! He talked to me! What an honor!
What would we have next? Someone burned in a cage? A nine years old kid sent to be exploded in the middle of a crowd? Some excisions? Will we hunt some unarmed civilians? Or will we destroy the remains of deceased cultures? I'm wondered by the beauty of your agenda.
If islam is so inherently shitty why was the ME ahead of the christian west for most of history?
No "Google" this time? I'm impressed.I'm linking this here so everyone is clear on the present situation: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=38399255#post38399255
If you recall, christianity got its upstart by taking over the roman civilization.Because they invaded and took over the existing Roman and Byzantian civilization.
The first period under the Umajjads was quite succesful, but they were a clan that had always opposed Muhammed in the first place and weren't very strict. Jews and Christians were even part of the government.
After they were forced to flee to Spain the Abassids took over, who were more inclined towards Islam. Jews and Christians, or in other words the intellectual elite, were expelled, converted or forced to live as second rate citizens. No proud person lasts long in that position.
No "Google" this time? I'm impressed.
I'll reserve "that thing" for better people. To keep beating you, my a** will be enough.Google isn't going to help create better retorts, you'll have to start using that thing between your ears.
I'll reserve "that thing" for better people. To keep beating you, my a** will be enough.
Alors la Carmencita,
railleuse à son ordinaire,
dit: Un âne, pour quoi faire?
Un balai te suffira.
If you recall, christianity got its upstart by taking over the roman civilization.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. So even before the golden age of islam it was known for relative tolerance of other religions compared to anything in the christian world until the very present, and that's a bad thing?
As an atheist (I assume) you should use your analytical abillity to understand the immense value the teachings of Jesus has had on our society. Classical philosophy combined with Christianity is what enabled us to become the leading civilization. The petty insults are getting boring.
Ever wondered why we are the least corrupt society? It's because the values created during the Reformation, you know, that time we stood up against the corruption of the Catholic Church?
Ever wondered why the islamic empire went into decay after they were beaten back by us twice? It's not the crusades as any Muslim will tell you nowadays. No, it's because Islam creates a corrupt society (as you can still see today). And why is that? Because its a religion created by thiefs, killers and rapists that actually allows you to steal, kill and rape.
.
America is not the least corrupt, we are 17th. Sweden is one of least corrupt nations in the world (in the top 3) and only 17% of its population consider religion important.
The immense value in thinking that we will burn in hell for eternity based solely on what God we believe in without evidence? I see little value in that. I see immense value in secularism.
Did you know that there are still Christians out there that deny evolution? That is mind-blowing.
Yes, it did take a rather minor battle considering the stakes, but the Roman Empire accepted Christianity as official religion. So almost without violence and out of free will. Because the emperor realized the religion had spread too far already among the people.
And what I'm trying to say is that the best era of the Islamic Empire was the period when it was the least Islamic. And they were no more nor less tolerant than the Christian and Jewish people that already lived in the area that Islam had conquered (using considerable violence btw).
Also, in case Donald is still wondering why they hate you: you support Israel. And Israel is the land of the Jews. The people who betrayed Muhammed, but unfortunately failed. So he had their heads chopped off. But Allah is so merciful that all other Jews must die too. The shame of the betrayal of the Prophet is too great.
Just as important, the concept of islam and non-islam land. Once land becomes islam-land, usually by conquest, it can never become non-islam land anymore. It would be an insult to god. You might not believe this but there's still a sizeable percentage of muslims who want Spain and Portugal back. It's like a Christian demanding the return of Constantinopel (the old name of Istanbul, before the muslims took it over). Except they're serious.
Now combine Jews with losing islam-land and you have double insult. Add 5 lost wars against Jews, supported by the US, and you might get an idea where their hate comes from. Hint: it's not unintentional civillian casualties like they usually cry about (except if they happen to occur in Darfur by their muslim brothers). They love giving false intel to you guys too, so you guys kill the enemy militia and they get to defame you internationally.
Lol, how can someone like you tell? Because it has technical sounding words in it? Serious question.
Appears rather obvious you're just linking arbitrary material that happens to criticize a study you don't like.
It's pretty clear you never got that far in school, and pretending you did isn't helping. However, of the schooling you've had, it should've taught that there's a difference between knowing/understanding something and not. For example, when a journal publishes a paper, it's not supporting some position the same way that the news outlets you might read supports some partisan effort. Since you can't be bothered to google what peer review is, I have to expend effort iterating that a reviewed paper simply means it's reasonably free of errors far as experts can tell. So this isn't Lancet vs NEJM like Fox News vs MSNBC. That's something you simply don't understand because you never reached the point where that academic experience could be taught.
The author here happens to be part of another different kind of study, which came up with somewhat lower numbers. Notice that it's not a study conducted by the NEJM, but of course you can't be expected to know/understand this for obvious reasons. Of course another author is entitled to believe his study/methodology/etc is more accurate as to be expected, but the idea that NEJM is debunking anything is rather comedic.
The reality is at this rate you'll never reach a position where your opinions on academic subjects would be taken seriously by anyone. In my naive optimism I tried to help with some guidance starting with accepting where you are now, but in hindsight that was only ever going to be an exercise in futility.
That's begging the question. The best era of christianity is arguably now, when western christianity is on the decline yet still responsible for the overwhelming majority of brutality in the world.
A plurality of americans support israel because they believe it's precursor to the second coming. In comparison real-world muslims tend to be far more realistic.
You might be starting to understand me. I'm not saying we should all become reborn Christians again. What I am saying is that there is value in our Christian heritage, apart from all the dumb shit our ancestors did. But give em a break, they didn't know all the stuff we know.
Unless you prefer living under Islam rule. Then you must take the blue pill. Some do that.
And I believe you if you say there are many crazy orthodox jews wishing to be first in line to be judged. But the main reason for support I guess is that most Jews and a lot of Christians think the Jewish people should have their own state. I guess we owe them something.
I was also thinking, Islam always claims it promotes science. It doesn't. It's designed to keep people dumb. Smart progressive open-minded individuals can't live under Islam. Turkey is the only country where there has ever been a lawsuit against a Nobel prize winner, as far as I know. Orhan Pamuk, you should read his books, they're good. Some dude accused him of shaming the honor of the country, something which is actually against the law there. A fucking Nobel prize winner, accused of dishonoring his homeland. Btw, how would you feel if there were a couple 1000 Turks standing on Brooklyn Bridge, waving the flag of their country, in your country? These are not your typical immigrants.
Seriously, Islam gives power to the poor. It's like a religous 1984, the first Marxist religion. No wonder the left defend them so willingly. The polygamy system causes high birthrates. So you get lots and lots of young men, living in a super frustrating environment where they have to suppress all their desires. What could be better for Jihad? Ever wondered why there are so many disgrunteld young men willing to kill each other over the stupidest shit in the Middle-East? Islam, that's why. And the saddest thing is, most of them are actually good people but they have been trapped for so long in this sytem that they think their oppressors are actually on their side. That's why you see moderate Muslims defend and excuse the most horrible shit in the history of mankind. But they will have to take the red pill one day.
Or look at this thought: Christianity actually invented the concept of Martyr, in the sense of dying for your beliefs and not renouncing them under torture. Islam turns it around, like it turns everything around. Muslim martyrs aren't tortured, they are the torturers, killing as many non-believers as possible and eventually dying in the act. But if the US tortures muslims, fairly moderately compared to ISIS I might add, you are the Great Satan, and you apologize. Have you ever heard any Imam made an apology for all the fucking shit Islam has done? Nope, it's always "we share your sorrow, but this is not Islam." Just for once make an honest apology ffs. But maybe I'm not fair, there might be guys with knifes coming if one does. Muslim commits horrible terror attack, world speaks out, muslim claims being discriminated against, world apologizes. No wonder they think we are weak. But we are not without sin and our God is truely merciful. Like I said 5% max. Actually, 10, 100, 1000 muslims in your country, no problem, nice people. 1 million muslims in your country, then the problems start. And they like children.
Again, all this shite you're foisting on Islam, is also in Christianity. You really should read the book.
The rest is just hogwosh, really. You keep trying to absolve the west of all the shit that we've been up to, and blame it on Islam; you can thank the west being buddy buddy with, and protective of, Saudi Arabia, for much of the terrorism we see today. Their spreading of Wahhabi Islam is not exactly a well kept secret.
And never mind the US' absolutely stellar efforts in completely ruining the Middle East.
But this has been covered before, but you just keep going on with the falsehoods and feigned ignorance. Come on man.
Sure, I'm aware you weren't talking about good ones, just the simpletons hankering to kill another group of evil people (not the good ones for them either to be fair).Well, if it wasn't clear I am not talking about the good muslim people but about the ones that use them for their own purposes, I guess it's a good time to start deflecting and using ad hominems. For the record, I'm not one of those masked guys you see cutting throats in YouTube videos, accompanied by the soothing verses from the Quran.
You might say I'm dehumanizing muslims but in reality, the ones that are doing the dehumanizing are the extremist muslims, putting us and moderate muslims in the non-believer category. What I'm trying to do is to show you the mechanism behind what Islam is doing in the world today, and always has. I call it a system and a design, but it doesn't matter if it's purposefully created or not, the mechanism and its results are no less real.
In fact, I'm giving muslims the chance to reclaim their humanity. Good Muslims of the world, you can change your ways and not deny your identity. Islam is not your heritage, Islam destroyed your heritage. But there is a prophet that brings peace instead of war. A God that loves you, not hates you. If you do, you won't have to constantly reconcile your faith with the horrors carried out in its name.
But it won't be easy. The forces of evil are strong within Islam and they want to force you back into submission. Can't have unrest in the ranks. Like I said, perfect warrior religion. Ask your turk/arab friends to give an example of a moral lesson from the Quran or life of Muhammed. You know, like a really profound insight? It's no wonder nobody, not even muslims, can tell you what the Quran actually teaches you.
The whole world knows Jesus is the guy that told you to love your enemy. All people know about Muhammed is that he was the guy running around with a sword chopping off heads and having sex with a 9 year old. No wonder Islam is mostly spread by killing and fucking.
Don't be surprised if your friends get irritated and angry if you try to discuss issues like this, even if you use your most friendly and respectful approach. Hell, there's more morality in the story of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves than in the Quran and Hadith combined. Islam is not the faith of Ali, it's the religion of the 40 thieves.
Oh, and one more thing: it's a mystery why so many black people are attracted to Islam. You can only explain that by accepting that Islam steals every idea and turns it around untill it becomes a sick twisted version of the original. Like how they stole the Thorah and Bible and added their own stuff to make it the opposite of the originals. Thou shalt not kill is turned into Thou shalt kill in the name of god.
But back to black people. When Muhammed was fighting the Meccan tribes he converted a bunch of slaves and by setting them free turned them into his most loyal followers. Finally they had the chance to have their revenge against their former masters, and it made them his most fanatical followers, always the first to offer themselves as martyrs in the Jihad.
Muslims will point to this and say Islam is against slavery. But they never tell you that once Islam had risen to power it controlled the slave trade for centuries. No muslim ever said: hmm, maybe this slave trade thingy isn't such a good thing, maybe we should abolish it. And why would they? The Quran never has any problems with turning people into slaves, in fact it actively encourages it.
But slavery is all the fault of the white mans religion, which is actually a brown mans religion. Twist and turn. Don't listen to them noble black people, all you need to know is that Islam means submission. The submission of a slave to his master. You need a different prophet, one that does not declare the superiority of the Arab race.
This poor mister Khan and his wife as well. Waving the constitution, not realizing that he should be waving a constitution in Islamic countries. Like in Saudi-Arabia, where they don't have one. But that's dangerous business. Islamic countries don't even sign the declaration of human rights. Because it might affect the position of women positively.
His son died a pointless death, killed by the same thing they are now defending so strongly. Many of your ancestors died a honorable death fighting for a good cause. Europeans are still thankfull for the sacrifices US soldiers made. I visit war cemetaries once in a while, but I'm beginning to wonder how much longer those crosses will still be standing there.
I'll try to make this as simple as possible: the root cause of all the problems in the Islamic world is Islam itself. It really is that simple. Not the West, not the Jews, not the CIA, not the international banking elite. It's Islam.
It contains no moral lessons. Ofcourse there is widespread corruption. Why should you not steal from other people? The prophet stole from other people. Why should you not rape women? The prophet raped women. Why should you not conquer other people's land? The prophet conquered other peoples land. And people still wonder why the Middle-East is a corrupt shithole. It's also the only religion that tells you to lie for the cause of Islam. No wonder they lie so much, mostly to themselves.
Ta clarify, I'm not saying that Christians today are the same as Muslims today. I'm saying that Christianity is; as in, the scripture hasn't changed, it's still the same Old Testament.
Christians today, however, have progressed quite a bit, and are in a better state than Muslims. The former have had an extra seven hundred years to let go of their scripture, after all.
So, basically, Christianity == Islam, Christians != Muslims.
My stance is that Christianity for the most part calmed down. They had a horrible past, but currently they are mostly harmless. They get uppity from time to time which is annoying. That said, religion is very much separate from society when compared to Islam and the societies its popular in.
Islam like any other big religion is intertwined with culture. Here in the west, even though we could make huge improvements, is very much secular. That is not the case in the Arab world. Islam and culture are the same thing to many. We here in the west do not have that. If a woman was beaten to death here in the US by a mob that believed she had burned a Bible, they would go to jail. In Afghanistan, everyone would get off and the family would flee out of fear of more attacks even though it was proved that she did not burn a Quran.
That is a big difference even here in the US, which among western cultures is very religious. To find a time when Christianity was like Islam in terms you have to go back very far. So, while Christianity has a horrific history, we live in the world today. Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity which is about 2000 years old. Its well past time for it to mature. No doubt the US is fucking things up with its influence, but Islam is old enough to have gone through a reformation.