Stopped PC gaming...

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Elias824

Golden Member
Mar 13, 2007
1,100
0
76
Console Advantages: Simple, few upgrades, split screen multilayer, controllers(thats a good and bad), New games, you can play on a large tv, used games are cheaper

Disadvantages: No game mods, no piracy, cant upgrade if you want better gfx, cant browse the internet, cant multitask or run other programs, No MMO games, No strategy games, controller

well I think that kind of sums it up
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
wide screen hdtv does bump console up a notch
i'm still waiting for starcraft 2
though if the console ever got a kb and mouse.......

haven't bought a game since cs source my next purchase will be starcraft i still read some game reviews, i'm just not motivated enought o play them..
 

Kirby64

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2006
1,485
0
76
Originally posted by: Elias824
Console Advantages: Simple, few upgrades, split screen multilayer, controllers(thats a good and bad), New games, you can play on a large tv, used games are cheaper

Disadvantages: No game mods, no piracy, cant upgrade if you want better gfx, cant browse the internet, cant multitask or run other programs, No MMO games, No strategy games, controller

well I think that kind of sums it up

That's what you think

EDIT: How is that a disadvantage, anyways? From a consumer standpoint?
 

jzodda

Senior member
Apr 12, 2000
824
0
0
Well I totally disagree. First off I have been building now for 14 years and people have been talking about the death of PC gaming well before that, since the 1980s really. They are still around though and even with less games made these days due to consoles there will always be a place for PC Gaming.

First look at the gamespot snapshots of the games that are coming out 2007. If you can't get excited about a bunch of stuff on that list before it ends then you are not as big a PC gamer as you thought you were.

reasons why it's worth to be a PCgamer

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24525221

As to the money thing? I don't seem to feel the pain like you do. Thats because I don't mind running games at less then the highest settings. I build and get at least a good year at all settings enabled and thats good enough for me. I find its every 3 years I do a major upgrade which is not that bad nor expensive overall for me.

Having said that, I have my Xbox360 attached to the same monitor as my PC and I feel it also has its place and some very good games made for it. I like having and enjoying both of them. Some good games just don't get ported, and thats a shame. Also some games I would hate on the Xbox. Example? Oblivion. I have 70+ mods for the game running right now and with Xbox I am stuck with stock game+official addons, expansion. Since there is such good stuff out there? That would blow to not be able to use it!
 

Telon

Member
Mar 7, 2007
63
0
0
I had a xbox 360 but sold it do to I like to play online rolplaying games, just went back to EQ.
But someone stated that you cant surf the web with counsels. Both the Wii and the PS 3 let you surf the web.
I didnt think much of the PS 3 at launch but when I can affor it I may buy one it has a lot to offer for the price realy if you have a 1080p TV.
Once I can upgrade my 50 inch 720p to a 1080p set with hdmi 1.3 and get a new reciver with a hdmi 1.3 hook up a Ps3 would be awsome. seeing movies off my grandson in high Def and my son's graduation in high def would be awsome, heard you can run linux on it too. It will take standard usb key boards and mice and external hard drives. not bad realy for what they are asking for it.
 

Nathelion

Senior member
Jan 30, 2006
697
1
0
I don't like consoles for one reason: freedom. On a PC, you can do whatever the f*ck you want to your software and your hardware, and it's not a big deal. For example, take modding, backup copies of CDs, and yeah, Ill admit it, pirating games that you don't feel the need to play multiplayer (trying to crack online services like STEAM takes a bit more skillz than I possess. Plus, I only bother playing a game multiplayer if I like it, in which case I do feel a moral obligation to support the developers). In contrast, on an xbox, for example, you get kicked off of Live if you install a better hard drive.
Add to that the fact that I mostly play RTS, and that no console has yet to produce a playable way of controlling an RTS, and PC gaming is - in my case - the only way to go. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy going over to my friends for some Halo action on the xbox, but I'd never pay for such a thing.

And everyone whining about the frequency of hardware upgrades - how long was it between the release of the XBOX and the XBOX360? In the US, it was ~4 years. In Europe, ~3 years. You can easily make your computer last 3 years if you buy a good computer, upgrade the vid card for $200 after 1.5-2 yrs, maybe add some memory or other random component for another $100, and you are prepared to actually use the LOW graphics settings in cutting edge games by the end of its lifespan, with limited resolutions (right now a low gaming resolution would be 1024 by 768, which as someone else stated is the HIGHEST resolution you can reasonably expect to get out of your xbox360. Quite often, an xbox will actually be played on a standard TV, degrading image quality further).
Someone else mentioned the hassle of breaking open you PC as a negative. Well, it IS undoubtedly a negative for the PC, but the latest gen consoles haven't exactly been easy to deal with either (read RROD on the 360, along with semi-common freezing, locking up, and lag problems under certain games). The need to get your screwdrivers out and get your hands dirty is certainly greater on a PC (if nothing else because your xbox 360 warranty will be void if you do so), but hardware and configuration problems are an inherent feature of the entire computing industry, not just the PC segment of it (although I'm not debating that it takes more know-how to run a PC properly than to run a console properly).
As to pricing. Assuming you keep your system for 3 years spending a frugal $300 ($200 GPU, $100 ram, for example) on upgrades during that time. Let's also assume that a good new computer can be had for $1500 (this depends on how many accessories such as mouse, keyboard, and monitor you have to include). Let's assume that you already have a monitor, but you will want to spend ~$100 for other accessories (this is fair in comparing to a console since you won't be buying a brand new TV just to play your xbox). Together, we have $1900 for a computer that can play all games, albeit at low resolutions and with low quality settings at the end of its lifetime (but as demonstrated with the xbox360, it may actually offer comparable absolute visual quality even to a last-gen console even by the end of its lifetime), for 3 years, maybe a tad more.
Now consider a console. Let's take the xbox360 as an example. Buying our original $1600 computer+accessories above could be considered equal to buying a latest gen console reasonably soon after launch. In the 360s case, this would have cost $400 USD for the Premium (one could argue that the Elite would make a better comparison, but for the sake of discussion, let's assume we chose the Premium). For there to be any point to having your 360, you'd almost have to have at least two controllers. The standard wireless ones go for ~$50 each, so that's another hundred. We can safely assume that some other random trinkets (Wireless adapter to your PC, an extra controller, a headset, a 20 ft Ethernet cable, you name it) will add at least $100 to that over the course of the console's life. Now this is an xbox, so it has no media handling capability and most certianly not a blu-ray drive like the PS2 (we'd have to up the price significantly if that was the comparison we were making). You then have $600 for your console system.
Game prices for the two platforms are similar (although i would argu
e that in your average PC user would end up paying less for their games; in reality pc users typically buy fewer games, partially because they can be *acquired* by other means). For functionality similar to a PC with an internet connection, you'd also have to sign up on x-box live. Let's assume that we don't feel the need to have xbox live the entire 3 years, but only 2 of them. I think this is a fair approximation of what many xbox owners do; they only subscribe to expensive services like this when they're hooked on a game that benefits from it. Gold membership for 2 years costs ~$100. So your xbox ends up at ~$700 (most PC games have a free multiplayer service, but even if they don't I personally have never seen the need to subscribe to anything like that since most games come with a couple of months free, which gives you enough time to get bored).
We have now paid ~$700 for our xbox. Now the computer is massively more expensive, costing $1900. But is it really? I would argue that to satisfy yourself over a period of three years, you would HAVE to spend ~$1000 or so on a PC anyway, even if you only gamed on your console. Why? Modern life simply requires e-mail, the ability to look at your uncles digital camera pictures, the ability to write documents on a PC at home, etc... Now a low end PC can cost less than ~1000, but if you include accessories (excluding screen) you would be hard pressed to find/build a system that will last you 3 years that fits on a budget significatnly less than $1000 unless you LITERALLY do NOTHING but read e-mail and browse the web. Even then, some more interactive webpages may end up straining your 3-year-old-cheap-even-back-then CPU, and I would argue that most people will want to be able to watch the latest movie clip their friend sent them from his/her favorite move, even if it is coded in the latest coolest video codec and your integrated graphics from 3 years ago doesn't have any hardware acceleration for that. A 3 year old system in the $1000 price class could conceivably do that, but not if you go lower.

In conclusion, the dual role of a gaming machine means that the real life costs are:
Gaming computer: ~$1900
Console (xbox360): ~$1700
The console is still a bit cheaper, and I think that's probably the way it works out in real life too, but the difference isn't that great (and remember that this is a VERY rough approximation). Now granted, if you're into PC gaming you're going to be a lot more tempted to buy fancy upgrades for your PC than you would be if you have an xbox for which there are no upgrades (although Microsoft may be changing that, as the release of gradually more powerful 360s seems to imply). But that doesn't change the fact that unless you require your computer to always run the newest games without compromising image quality (although in terms of absolute image quality, little has changed: it's just that as compared to what you COULD be getting, the PC will be giving you less quality. Note that the image quality of your computer would grow slightly as you upgrade it with those $300, the console would stay the same - so in terms of absolute quality, you have a distinct advantage over the console as a PC owner, even though it may not seem that way), you can actually get away with being a PC gamer at only marginally higher cost than that of a console player. Whether you have the willpower to resist that new RAM and proc and OMFG badass video card that just came out is your problem. But what I wanted to demonstrate is that the acual price difference for someone who doesn't require anything more out of their PC than they would out of their xbox (that is, constant ABSOLUTE performance and the ABILITY to play all games, no matter how new) during their lifespan (~3 years), the PC alternative is actually only marginally more expensive.

As shown above, the money issue that many are complaining about is really moot - they're comparing apples to oranges, or put another way, they are getting as much out of their pc as they are out of their xbox, but they're expecting more - while the visual qualities of PC games gradually improve, it stays constant for consoles of the same generation. That being said, plenty modern games still look better at low settings than old games at high settings, so it's not like your PC experience is actually degrading over time, you just think it is because in the back of your mind you know how much better that new resource hog game COULD look with a brand new computer.

Based on my above argument, I would say that whether you prefer console or PC is really a matter of what kind of games you play and how highly you value the various collateral benefits (such as split screen on console and more media and office capability on the PC), rather than an issue of price. An RTS gamer would definitely go PC, for example, while an FPS player might (although not necessarily would) prefer a console.

The whole issue of price is really overstated.

My 5c.

EDIT: Grammar and left out words
 

Patrick Wolf

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2005
2,443
0
0
I think what it boils down to is the best of the best games come out for the PC and than (maybe) ported for the consoles. And when a smash hit comes out for the consoles, there is a very good chance it will make its way to the PC...eventually. Whether the port is a good one or not varies. And if it is poor you can usually tweak it enough through mods and changing game files to make it good, and possible patches, but one should never hold their breath on patches.

And with the best of the best, comes a price. Obviously if you wanna save some money for something else you deem more important, than get a console and get what you can out of it while it lasts.

Though if you play it smart and buy when the time is right, you can get a great deal on a kickass upgrade every year or so. Mail-in rebates and ebay can be your best friends, buy new parts cheap as you can, sell your old one's for what they're worth.
 

Chimera66

Junior Member
May 20, 2007
10
0
0
I tend to look at it this way:
A console's lifespan seems to get shorter and shorter, yet they get more and more expensive with each generation, to the point where a PS3 will cost you $600 or $700 dollars with a few peripherals. You could build a pretty nice PC for that amount of money, certainly one that could keep up with a PS3 in most games, and it'd be more versatile. If $400-$700 is an indication of what future consolesare going to cost me, then I'd rather build a new PC every 3 or 4 years with that money. That way, I have something that can do more than just run games and play DVDs.

Don't get me wrong, I love consoles, but they're not exactly cheap nowadays either, depending on which console of course. The Wii is in my opinion a steal for $300. But to me, $400-$700 is just too much for a game console, when you consider the kind of PC you can build for around the same amount. You can also mod many PC games, which is a huge plus for some games. Oblivion is one example. Oblivion on a good PC with the plethora of mods available is to me a far more satisfying experience than the vanilla version on the 360. These are just my opinions.
 

Telon

Member
Mar 7, 2007
63
0
0
I still favor a PC over all but when some one talks about the cost try to build a PC with a blue ray Drive that can function properly as a media center on a 50 " or better monitor.
Blue ray burner is $500 or more alone
I have also read about many problems geting a Media center set up right.
If you already have the HD Monitor and a good audio system, the PS3 offers a lot for the Pricenad it wont void any waenty adding a external hard drive, keybord mouse or anyother USB/bluetooh device. Like i said you can run a Linux os on it too so it can function as a second PC if needed.
The Wii is a bargin if it offers gamplay that you enjoy and if you can find it.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,697
29
91
the problem is the ports of the games. take graw2 for instance. a buddy of mine has a similiar pc to mine except he runs a 7900gtx. he has to play graw2 @ 1024x768 where i play it @ 1280x720 on my hd lcd, and it looks very good. plus the 360 game has about 1/3 more options and gaming types than the pc version, same thing w/ rb6:vegas. these are 2 examples where the 360 is kililng the pc.

and if you want, piracy on the 360 is not hard, except now you get banned from live, which is fine by me as i haven't played online w/ the 360 except for 2x so i wouldn't be renewing that membership anyway, not that i am saying i am pirating 360 games as my consoles has not been banned, but it is pretty easy to do, just as easy as pc. but even the 360 games single player is pretty decent compared to many pc games.

and visually the 360 is looking every bit as good as my pc and my friends who has the 7900gtx, but we are lcd limited to 1280x1024. maybe if i were running a 1920x1200 i would feel differently.

now that i have a 360 i am torn, i didn't think it would be this good graphics wise to be honest, so i guess the end result is to get them both i guess what we really need is ati/amd to get off their asses and make a good gpu so the prices will come down

and Nathelion, how did you get to $1700 for the 360?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,069
10,862
136
all depends on your definition of how games should be played. i'm happy with 1280x1024. but if people want 2560x1600 or whatever it is, of course you're going to need 8800GTX SLI.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: Elias824
Console Advantages: Simple, few upgrades, split screen multilayer, controllers(thats a good and bad), New games, you can play on a large tv, used games are cheaper

Disadvantages: No game mods, no piracy, cant upgrade if you want better gfx, cant browse the internet, cant multitask or run other programs, No MMO games, No strategy games, controller

well I think that kind of sums it up

Please don't put "no piracy" as a disadvantage :disgust:
 

soybeast

Senior member
Apr 26, 2006
255
0
76
I really don't see the legitimate beef with xbox 360 ports. If it's a port, then it means it probably wasn't originally intended to be made for the pc. For those who never will own an xbox 360 or other console, ports are great for experiencing games you otherwise would never have gotten the chance to play. Even if it's not the best port, something is always better than nothing.

Besides, it's not like consoles don't get partly shafted when PC games are ported (e.g. C&C3, FEAR, etc.). I think we should just be happy developers are willing to port games from console to pc, and vice-versa. I find it strange for the consumer to be complaining about having too much choice when it can only really help us (at least in this case).
 

Smartazz

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
6,128
0
76
Originally posted by: Kirby64
Originally posted by: Elias824
Console Advantages: Simple, few upgrades, split screen multilayer, controllers(thats a good and bad), New games, you can play on a large tv, used games are cheaper

Disadvantages: No game mods, no piracy, cant upgrade if you want better gfx, cant browse the internet, cant multitask or run other programs, No MMO games, No strategy games, controller

well I think that kind of sums it up

That's what you think

EDIT: How is that a disadvantage, anyways? From a consumer standpoint?

heh, yeah I was about to say that consoles did have piracy. In fact didn't Microsoft just start restricting online play with gamers who pirate their games?
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: Smartazz
Originally posted by: Kirby64
Originally posted by: Elias824
Console Advantages: Simple, few upgrades, split screen multilayer, controllers(thats a good and bad), New games, you can play on a large tv, used games are cheaper

Disadvantages: No game mods, no piracy, cant upgrade if you want better gfx, cant browse the internet, cant multitask or run other programs, No MMO games, No strategy games, controller

well I think that kind of sums it up

That's what you think

EDIT: How is that a disadvantage, anyways? From a consumer standpoint?

heh, yeah I was about to say that consoles did have piracy. In fact didn't Microsoft just start restricting online play with gamers who pirate their games?

If you use a game on your Xbox360 that is not otiginal you are locked out of XboxLive. I'm not sure exactly how they know it's not an original game, is there some check that is performed on the system to see if it's modded in any way? Or a certain file is always missing from the disk when it's copied? I don't know, but I buy all my games. I know some people who work in game development for smaller studios. I like to support the hard work of the people creating the games I enjoy. I don't buy every game out there though, but what I want to play I usually buy for my collection.
 
Oct 4, 2004
10,515
6
81
There are a few games that feature such solid gameplay that I don't mind playing them at pretty low settings.

I remember I played through Rome: Total War on IGP (low 20s FPS and some annoying-but-not-showstopping rendering issues) before getting a 'real' GPU (which was a 9600XT). The gameplay sucked me in and I couldn't care less that I was running it at lowest-low settings.

That's what I want from a game - solid gameplay. I want Crysis (for eg.) to be FUN to play even if I dial down the graphics to 2003-level. The question is: can game developers do that? Do they really think we are just dying to plunk down our money to upgrade hardware/buy-the-game to get A+ graphics with C+ gameplay?
 

AliasX

Senior member
Jan 29, 2006
508
0
0
I love my PC and will never stop gaming with it. Personally, aside from having to pay for it, upgrading PC components can be fun! the rig in my sig is running all games max at 1680x1050. I haven't tried GRAW yet, because I have no interest in playing it. I still use my console for some things, but gaming on the PC is much better IMO. However, Halo 2 forced me to get an Xbox, I'm hoping Halo 3 doesn't force me to get a 360!

Regardless, both have advantages in certain areas. I have no issues with my PC being "up to date all the time."
 

tank171

Member
May 27, 2007
93
0
0
Hehe. I love computers. I will probably be building computers for the rest of my life. Not just so I can play the best games at the highest resolution and FPS, but because I like to put them together and see it work and have the fastest computer I can afford. It is a hobby/obsession for me, so I wont be scared away from the new games because I will have to upgrade. Although I am 14 and I have built only 1 computer, I know I will build more.

Oh, AliasX, you dont have a sig.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,003
11,576
136
I find that good planning and smart overclocking can extend the life and usefulness of PC gaming hardware for years. The real problem is video cards that are nowhere near as flexible or configurable as a PC's CPU/motherboard/memory.

If the video card market were a bit more competitive and offered lower prices and more overclockability, you'd see much cheaper gaming PCs than you see now. With luck, combination CPU/GPU chips and HTX/CSI video cards will shake up the market and make PC gaming better than ever.
 

Texun

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2001
2,058
1
81
Originally posted by: razor2025
PC Gaming doesn't need you. There are plenty of games made only for PCs.

Maybe you were just trying to get your thread count up a notch, but that was a crappy response to a logical point of view.

I don't game like I used to. I still have the older games like CoD, MoH, HL2, CS:S but nothing new. I would need to drop $600 right now to get quality performance from a $50 game and I'm not going to make that jump, not until my rig gets too slow for other tasks. Now I race and golf on my XBox.
 

Chimera66

Junior Member
May 20, 2007
10
0
0
"when some one talks about the cost try to build a PC with a blue ray Drive that can function properly as a media center on a 50 " or better monitor.
Blue ray burner is $500 or more alone"

That's only if you care about Blu-Ray. I'd say the majority of gamers don't, which is why PS3 sales have been lukewarm when compared to the other two current-gen consoles. When I'm at work, people very rarely ask me if we have any PS3's available. They always want to know if we have any Wii's or 360's. That's because most people just aren't cool with spending $700 on a gaming console, Blu-Ray or not.

If someone is torn between buying a PS3 and building a computer, I just think it makes more logical sense to build the PC and wait for Blu-Ray technology to come down in price over the next year or two.


 

Trevante

Senior member
Jul 13, 2005
227
0
0
Originally posted by: Chimera66
I tend to look at it this way:
A console's lifespan seems to get shorter and shorter, yet they get more and more expensive with each generation, to the point where a PS3 will cost you $600 or $700 dollars with a few peripherals. You could build a pretty nice PC for that amount of money, certainly one that could keep up with a PS3 in most games, and it'd be more versatile. If $400-$700 is an indication of what future consolesare going to cost me, then I'd rather build a new PC every 3 or 4 years with that money. That way, I have something that can do more than just run games and play DVDs.

Don't talk about the PS3. The PS3 is just another attempt by Sony to push their crappy proprietary formats. The 360 and the Wii are more along the lines of what a game console should be. The PS3 is like a pseudo-PC.

I don't think consoles are getting shorter lifespans. It's only the Xbox that I know of that got killed off so quickly because MS was losing too much money on them. PS2's and gamecubes are still readily available in stores, and PS2's still sell quite well.

Don't get me wrong, I love consoles, but they're not exactly cheap nowadays either, depending on which console of course. The Wii is in my opinion a steal for $300. But to me, $400-$700 is just too much for a game console, when you consider the kind of PC you can build for around the same amount. You can also mod many PC games, which is a huge plus for some games. Oblivion is one example. Oblivion on a good PC with the plethora of mods available is to me a far more satisfying experience than the vanilla version on the 360. These are just my opinions.

Lmao....

What kind of gaming PC can you build (From the ground up, not using any pre-existing parts except for the display) for $400? And what kind of $400 gaming PC will have graphics as good as Gears of War?

Keep in mind that the Wii is $250 MSRP and the core 360 is $300. Don't think you can even build a modern computer for that price.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: Trevante

Keep in mind that the Wii is $250 MSRP and the core 360 is $300. Don't think you can even build a modern computer for that price.

This is true, I can't build a good gaming PC for that. If I could you know without a doubt that the console will have more games comming out each month than the PC.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,003
11,576
136
Originally posted by: Trevante


What kind of gaming PC can you build (From the ground up, not using any pre-existing parts except for the display) for $400? And what kind of $400 gaming PC will have graphics as good as Gears of War?

Keep in mind that the Wii is $250 MSRP and the core 360 is $300. Don't think you can even build a modern computer for that price.

Ah, but MS can't build an Xbox 360 for that price, either. The reason why the 360 and PS3 are as "cheap" as they are is that their respective creators are deliberately dumping hardware on the open market at a loss. Only Nintendo actually earns a profit from sales of their latest console.

Those who condemn PC gaming as being too expensive seem to lack perspective on what PC gaming is and what it really represents. There are many, many things you can do with a PC that you still can't do with consoles (at least, not without considerable difficulty and/or voiding product warranties or otherwise pissing off the manufacturer). I am sitting at a PC I built in March for purposes other than gaming, but I could make it into a gaming PC by adding a video card in the $100-$500 price range.

So, if I wanted to game, I could either pay $250 minimum to get a Wii (if I could actually get my hands on one), or I could pay maybe $100 minimum for a video card for my PC.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Originally posted by: Trevante


What kind of gaming PC can you build (From the ground up, not using any pre-existing parts except for the display) for $400? And what kind of $400 gaming PC will have graphics as good as Gears of War?

Keep in mind that the Wii is $250 MSRP and the core 360 is $300. Don't think you can even build a modern computer for that price.

Ah, but MS can't build an Xbox 360 for that price, either. The reason why the 360 and PS3 are as "cheap" as they are is that their respective creators are deliberately dumping hardware on the open market at a loss. Only Nintendo actually earns a profit from sales of their latest console.

Those who condemn PC gaming as being too expensive seem to lack perspective on what PC gaming is and what it really represents. There are many, many things you can do with a PC that you still can't do with consoles (at least, not without considerable difficulty and/or voiding product warranties or otherwise pissing off the manufacturer). I am sitting at a PC I built in March for purposes other than gaming, but I could make it into a gaming PC by adding a video card in the $100-$500 price range.

So, if I wanted to game, I could either pay $250 minimum to get a Wii (if I could actually get my hands on one), or I could pay maybe $100 minimum for a video card for my PC.

That is assuming you have a good system to start with. What about those low-end PCs (especially those without AGP/PCI-E slots) and laptops which most people use? Sorry, SOL.
 
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