Strikeforce's Heavyweight Grand Prix starts TODAY! ( 2/12/11 )

[LookBehindYou]

My two cents...

Fedor could still be competitive but he has some thigns going against him:

1. Training partners. He needs to ditch Stary Oscul or whatever it is and start training with people that are going to make him better, when he got put in that triangle, it was like it was the first time he had ever experienced it. He needs to train with people that will make him better.

2. Size. I know he has fought giants, but they were relatively unskilled giants. He is going to have a tough time competing with the guys that are outweighing him by 30-50 lbs and have the skills to use their size to their advantage. I think he beats or stays competitve with Cain and maybe JDS, but guys like Allistair, Silva, Carwin, Brock (if he can react better to the first punch) are going to give him serious problems because of size.

Fedor will go down as one of the greatest if not the greatest. But up until werdum and silva, he fought some fights that did not help him that much. Brett rogers (inexperienced and had good wins against cans and glass jaw arlovski), arlovski (can't take a punch and can't stick to his gameplan), sylvia (garbage), hong man choi (seriously?), Matt Lindland (really?)

As much as Dana comes off as a hater on Fedor, he is right about his recent competition, he went from top level competition to cans and back to top level competition and now he's having difficulty. Werdum and Silva are no joke and they are showing that fedor's time has past unless he makes some drastic changes.

word.

 

[TheNinja]

I think Pat was the one who said - "He's Fedor - he can do whatever he wants"

That was actually Frank Shamrock I believe. Pat wasn't there the other night (he should have been though).

 

[Pantlegz]

Hey Woosta, how is Strikeforce HW division far better than the UFC? Both Arlovski and Fedor will now both be out of the top 10. That leaves Werdum (Who was KO'ed by JDS), Silva (who lost a decision to Werdum), Alistair Overroid who hasn't fought a top 10 opponent in MMA yet (K1 doesn't count ask Cro Cop), Sergei Kharitonov (Hasn't fought much over the last 4 years but is the latest to knock out Glass Joe errr Arlovski), Brett Rogers (whose biggest claim to fame besides losing to both Fedor and Overroid is knocking out Glass Joe errr Arlovski), Josh Barnett (who hasn't fought a top 10 opponent and has failed more drug tests than Dwight Gooden).

They may have looked better a year ago but what a difference a year makes. This tournament has backfired on Strikeforce and is going to rob it of it's biggest draws and names. This bracket was put together by someone who is seriously lacking intelligence. They stacked the left side of the bracket with Overroid, Silva, Fedor and Werdum. The right side had Glass Joe err Arlovski, Kharitonov, Barnett and Rogers. The best matchup they can hope for in the finals for excitement is Overroid or Silva versus Barnett.

No one really knows who Kharitonov is, he may end up being great and the winner but he doesn't sell tickets. If Werdum goes far then Strikeforce will continue to have a Champion that JDS knocked out in 1 round. They need Silva to continue to do well or it will further marginalize Fedor if the man who destroyed him losses badly.

Strikeforce had the better HW division but that is no longer the case. The future is brighter for the UFC as Cain is 28 and JDS is 26. The exposure that the UFC gets to the general population is far greater than Strikeforce so they will attract the younger prospects as evidenced by both JDS and Cain being the only top 10 HW under 30 and both are in the UFC.

Woosta is avoiding this post like Fedor avoided the UFC...

Truth is, he was a great fighter and SF's HW division may have been completive at one point but really they don't have much right now. Which is all that really matters. I know the UFC's HW isn't the ultimate HW division.

And Woota's earlier comment about Fedor being too old to cut weight, talk to randy about it... he was cutting weight at what 40+ and still completive at 45, I think he is supposed to have a fight with machida coming up too.

I know you like the sport, I do too but you're so damn annoying when anyone disagrees with you. just admit you're wrong Fedor got his face smashed in and may be time for him to retire. Then take another look at SF's HW compared to UFC's and see who's fought better competition when they were still good. You'll see that SF is no better that UFC with the possible exception of Overeem who hasn't done anything in MMA, yet.
And as we all know wrestlers seem to do better than strikers in MMA for whatever reason so I think that Overeem getting in the cage with the likes of Cain or JDS, shit even Brock, if he's not able to keep them at bay he gets taken down and smashed.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

n.

And Woota's earlier comment about Fedor being too old to cut weight, talk to randy about it... he was cutting weight at what 40+ and still completive at 45, I think he is supposed to have a fight with machida coming up too.

Randy has been doing it most his life; It is part of being a wrestler. Starting it in your mid 30's, that is a serious challenge.

I think it is silly that everyone is suddenly jumping on the Fedor@205 bandwagon too. It used to be that if you mentioned how undersized he was, everyone would dismissively declare he would just "Zulu" them. Whomever it might be that was brought up as a case in point. Now, after a decade at fighting HW, it is time to drop down? GTFO. light heavy is stacked, and he would be giving up his best advantages in the process.

 

[Woosta]

 

[Woosta]

Woosta is avoiding this post like Fedor avoided the UFC...

Truth is, he was a great fighter and SF's HW division may have been completive at one point but really they don't have much right now. Which is all that really matters. I know the UFC's HW isn't the ultimate HW division.

And Woota's earlier comment about Fedor being too old to cut weight, talk to randy about it... he was cutting weight at what 40+ and still completive at 45, I think he is supposed to have a fight with machida coming up too.

I know you like the sport, I do too but you're so damn annoying when anyone disagrees with you. just admit you're wrong Fedor got his face smashed in and may be time for him to retire. Then take another look at SF's HW compared to UFC's and see who's fought better competition when they were still good. You'll see that SF is no better that UFC with the possible exception of Overeem who hasn't done anything in MMA, yet.
And as we all know wrestlers seem to do better than strikers in MMA for whatever reason so I think that Overeem getting in the cage with the likes of Cain or JDS, shit even Brock, if he's not able to keep them at bay he gets taken down and smashed.

I'm not ignoring that post at all, I'll address both posts within 48 hours. Kind of odd you'd mention that considering I've replied to every post under the sun in this thread so far.

 

[Pantlegz]

Randy has been doing it most his life; It is part of being a wrestler. Starting it in your mid 30's, that is a serious challenge.

I think it is silly that everyone is suddenly jumping on the Fedor@205 bandwagon too. It used to be that if you mentioned how undersized he was, everyone would dismissively declare he would just "Zulu" them. Whomever it might be that was brought up as a case in point. Now, after a decade at fighting HW, it is time to drop down? GTFO. light heavy is stacked, and he would be giving up his best advantages in the process.

I actually don't' know that I would want him to cut weight, it was more or less just an observation. I know if I fight it will be at 205, my 'natural' weight is about 240 I can easily walk around at ~220. cutting isn't fun but it's something that is almost a necessity to be completive anymore. If he's not cutting and having issues with guys bigger/stronger than him he either needs to get bigger and cut down to ~265 or if he's fighting at 230ish just cut down to 205 if he doesn't want to get big.

I didn't know it was a bandwagon anyone fight HW that isn't 245+ imo is in the wrong weight class. Honestly he doesn't have to listen to me the guy is already a legend and easily one of the top P4P of all time.

 

[duragezic]

Good point about a stacked LHW division that has faster guys, but I think Fedor is still worse off at HW against huge guys than at LHW.

BTW, Fedor has a Twitter account now: http://twitter.com/fedoroskol

It's definitely him as he confirmed it during an interview with Ariel Helwani. Unfortunately it seems to be all posts in Russian but Google Translate seems to handle it fine:

"Thank you all for your kind words and wishes. I would like to continue the fight, the doctor did everything possible, but it did not, unfortunately"

"About continuing or retiring will be resolved in the near future. How did God give - so be it"

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I actually don't' know that I would want him to cut weight, it was more or less just an observation. I know if I fight it will be at 205, my 'natural' weight is about 240 I can easily walk around at ~220. cutting isn't fun but it's something that is almost a necessity to be completive anymore. If he's not cutting and having issues with guys bigger/stronger than him he either needs to get bigger and cut down to ~265 or if he's fighting at 230ish just cut down to 205 if he doesn't want to get big.

I didn't know it was a bandwagon anyone fight HW that isn't 245+ imo is in the wrong weight class. Honestly he doesn't have to listen to me the guy is already a legend and easily one of the top P4P of all time.

You make some good points.

The bandwagon comment was just because I have read that in nearly every thread on the guy the last couple days. Even some of the pro fighters and analyst have said it.

I can understand why too. The guy hits like a truck, eats punishment like candy, and is good any place the fight goes. If he can do 205 right, he may be faster than ever, have more gas than ever, and retain most of his strength. That would be scary stuff.

On the other side of it though: The explosiveness, speed and level of technical ability@LHW is scary too.

 

[RPD]

He won't cut weight. You don't just up and start cutting weight in your 30's if you never have in your life.

Also, for everyone saying he's over come huge fighters before, but weren't skilled and quickly go back to how awesome his record is, which is it? Were those huge fighters legit or cans because you can't say he beat skilled, larger opponents in the past then turn around and somehow say Silva was different in some manner (size, skill whatever). You can't claim both.

 

[snoopdoug1]

That was actually Frank Shamrock I believe. Pat wasn't there the other night (he should have been though).

Oops - my bad if that's the case. I thought he was there.

 

[Woosta]

Hey Woosta, how is Strikeforce HW division far better than the UFC? Both Arlovski and Fedor will now both be out of the top 10.

Why would Fedor be out of the top 10? Brock Lesnar got embarassed on a much higher level and he's still in the top 10.

There's no way Fedor should be kicked out of the top 10. He's STILL 32-3.

That leaves Werdum (Who was KO'ed by JDS)

Just because he was KO'd by JDS doesn't mean he isn't a top 10 HW. The guy is the best BJJ HW other than Roger Gracie. Werdum has a win over Fedor. JDS doesn't. Werdum should be ranked higher.

Werdum has beaten and fought more top heavyweights than Junior Dos Santos and Cain Velasquez combined.

, Silva (who lost a decision to Werdum),

Bigfoot Silva is a legit top 10, arguably top 8 guy. He just beat Fedor. The only UFC HWs that would be favorites over him are JDS and Cain.

Alistair Overroid who hasn't fought a top 10 opponent in MMA yet

You want to play the UFC [ steroid free ] vs everyone else [ steroids ] game? K, let's start

1. Chael Sonnen
2. Shane carwin
3. Thiago silva
4. Thiago Alves
5. Ken Shamrock

While SF has Barnett, Overeem has not failed any test yet so you are grasping at straws.

I could *easily* point out and accuse any HW in the UFC on the juice but why would I when UFC fighters get caught on the regular?

(K1 doesn't count ask Cro Cop),

Who brought K1 in the equation?

Sergei Kharitonov (Hasn't fought much over the last 4 years but is the latest to knock out Glass Joe errr Arlovski)

Kharitonov is legit.

Brett Rogers (whose biggest claim to fame besides losing to both Fedor and Overroid is knocking out Glass Joe errr Arlovski)

Brett Rogers is pretty much a Shane Carwin; heavy handed strikers with not so much technical skill. They were doing good against [brock,fedor] but lost. Their biggest wins are over Mir/Arlovski who don't like getting hit.

Josh Barnett (who hasn't fought a top 10 opponent and has failed more drug tests than Dwight Gooden).

Say what you want about the steroids but Barnett is still top 7 material.

They may have looked better a year ago but what a difference a year makes.

Indeed what a difference it makes; Brock is an absolute joke now and the only 2 top tier HWs in the UFC are JDS and Cain.

This tournament has backfired on Strikeforce and is going to rob it of it's biggest draws and names.

It had 1.1 million viewers at one point which broke the SHOWTIME record so I don't see how the hell it "backfired". Even if Fedor doesn't move on you still have Overeem who's probably going to be the #1 HW in a few months.

This bracket was put together by someone who is seriously lacking intelligence. They stacked the left side of the bracket with Overroid, Silva, Fedor and Werdum. The right side had Glass Joe err Arlovski, Kharitonov, Barnett and Rogers. The best matchup they can hope for in the finals for excitement is Overroid or Silva versus Barnett.

We get to see Werdum and Overeem fight in the very first round, I personally think the matchups are great. To each his own.

No one really knows who Kharitonov is, he may end up being great and the winner but he doesn't sell tickets.

I thought we were talking about skilled heavyweights and comparing them. Now you're bringing marketability in the equation... well I'm sorry there is no WWE star on the SF HW GP but don't worry you can watch RAW or SMACKDOWN.

If Werdum goes far then Strikeforce will continue to have a Champion that JDS knocked out in 1 round.

Ah, I love it when people bring up losses in the past. I can play that game too;

Anderson Silva, #1 p4p guy has lost to 4 cans. How can he be the greatest p4p by losing to japanese nobodies, when competition in Japan, according to Chris Leben, is easier?

So using your MMA Math logic of JDS being better than anyone Werdum beats, Chonan is better than everyone Anderson Silva beats? And Okami? And the other 2 nobodies that Anderson lost to.

GSP also got embarassingly TKO'd by Matt Serra.

Cain had his moment too

Cain just hasn't fought enough.

JDS has lost to a nobody in Brazil.

Need I go on?

The exposure that the UFC gets to the general population is far greater than Strikeforce so they will attract the younger prospects as evidenced by both JDS and Cain being the only top 10 HW under 30 and both are in the UFC.

Wow, you're actually pointing out that the UFC gets more viewership? I never knew that.

 

[Woosta]

My two cents...

1. Training partners. He needs to ditch Stary Oscul or whatever it is and start training with people that are going to make him better, when he got put in that triangle, it was like it was the first time he had ever experienced it. He needs to train with people that will make him better.

Huh? He escaped the triangle the first time. He ran into the cage and got repositioned back into it. Do you know who Fabricio Werdum is? He's probably the #2 HW in the world at Grappling.. he wouldn't let Fedor get out of it again.

Fedor probably thought Werdum was rocked and understimated Werdum on the ground.

For emphasis, Fedor got out of the triangle the first time. Go watch the fight please.

Fedor has gotten out of numerous subs. He didn't take into account that this was the first round and they weren't sweaty enough such that he could get out more easily because of the sweat factor.

I do agree that he needs to train more with BJJ blackbelts.

2. Size. I know he has fought giants, but they were relatively unskilled giants. He is going to have a tough time competing with the guys that are outweighing him by 30-50 lbs and have the skills to use their size to their advantage. I think he beats or stays competitve with Cain and maybe JDS, but guys like Allistair, Silva, Carwin, Brock (if he can react better to the first punch) are going to give him serious problems because of size.

Fedor has only lost 2 legitimate times in his career. Why would you want a guy that's 32-2 to go down in weight? It boggles the mind. It's not like he's been KO'd god knows how many times like Chuck Liddell has.

Fedor will go down as one of the greatest if not the greatest. But up until werdum and silva, he fought some fights that did not help him that much. Brett rogers (inexperienced and had good wins against cans and glass jaw arlovski), arlovski (can't take a punch and can't stick to his gameplan), sylvia (garbage), hong man choi (seriously?), Matt Lindland (really?)

Zuffa revisionism: When you pick a fighter and discredit any of their wins, not taking context into account at all.

Sylvia was ranked, Rogers was ranked, Arlovski was ranked, Werdum was ranked, Bigfoot was ranked.

As much as Dana comes off as a hater on Fedor, he is right about his recent competition, he went from top level competition to cans and back to top level competition and now he's having difficulty. Werdum and Silva are no joke and they are showing that fedor's time has past unless he makes some drastic changes.

Fedor has fought more top HWs than any UFC fighter in probably the last 4 years. Go compare all the HWs ( Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS ) and Fedor will have fought more top 10 guys.

 

[RPD]

So much fail, you took that much time to respond and only used like 4 gif's? I am disappoint. I was figuring for atleast 20-40 gif's to get your point across.

You think Barnett is a top 10 HW. I don't need to say more. Stop living in the past.

I actually can't wait for Fedor to fight again, against someone with as much or more skill then Silvia. Hell I HOPE he somehow fights Overeem because then what will you say when he's face down?

If Fedor doesn't drastically change his training methods, partners or management his next fight (again if it's against a NON SF CAN) is going to end up worst then his last two.

 

[QueBert]

He won't cut weight. You don't just up and start cutting weight in your 30's if you never have in your life.

Also, for everyone saying he's over come huge fighters before, but weren't skilled and quickly go back to how awesome his record is, which is it? Were those huge fighters legit or cans because you can't say he beat skilled, larger opponents in the past then turn around and somehow say Silva was different in some manner (size, skill whatever). You can't claim both.

Really? Brock Lesnar didn't start cutting weight until he was in his 30's...

As for the second part, Fedor was going to "Zulu" Silva, he beat HMC's ass and HMC was even bigger than Silva. Fedor was going to easily win this fight any way he wanted. But when he loses it's all of a sudden he's past his prime and that's the only reason he lost. But the day this fight was announced every Shertard was carrying on about how Fedor would "Zulu" him within a minute.

 

[RPD]

You think Brock didn't cut weight in his highly decorated NCAA wrestling career??? Wrestlers ALWAYS cut weight.

 

[bfdd]

He needs to change his training up. IMO he needs to start cross training with Americans more. I'm not saying what we do is better, but it would help improve his grappling defense against the wrestler/jits hybrid style that's seemingly taking over and it's always good to mix in different strength/conditioning work outs. I don't think he is to small, you have to remember Big Foot dwarfs most HWs, Fedor does need to up pump a little more iron though to make up for is slowing down imo.

As for the people talking trash. Fedor looked great, Big Silva looked great, in fact I thought Arlovski looked fantastic up until he did the same stupid Arlovski run backwards with your hands down because you got tagged then got put out. Kharnitonov is legit and would be a tough fight for most anyone. I'm not saying he's a world beater or the next big thing, but the guy has talent.

 

[QueBert]

You think Brock didn't cut weight in his highly decorated NCAA wrestling career??? Wrestlers ALWAYS cut weight.

According to an issue of SI I read, he was 270 in 2000, I'd say he was cutting no weight at all.

 

[Duder1no]

Posted by: Phil Baroni
Randy Couture's longest unbeaten streak? Four. Chuck Liddell? Ten. Anderson Silva? Fourteen.
Those are three of the most decorated and respected fighters of all time and their longest combined unbeaten streak equals 28 fights, or one less than Fedor by himself.

Jim Rome STFU your ASS is Burning

 

[duragezic]

You don't have to say he's the GOAT but I don't know how you can't at least put him up there. Same with top 10 HW. I can see him dropping, probably out of the top 5, but to say he's out and put Mir or Big Nog in there I don't get.

I expected the commentary from Frank Shamrock and Mauro Renallo to be bad, but man it was terrible this time. Usually they call techniques wrong, and I hate when Frank says "he needs to get on the bicycle" but unfortunately he didn't even say that this time! And some people say Joe and Mike do a bad job... jeez! The Gus guy is goofy too. Bas and Schievallo in the prelims were so much better.

They were talking about Johnson and del Rosario. "The puncher, versus the striker" "big contrast of styles there". Then they say Johnson is the superior grappler but later say del Rosario should have taken it down where he had the edge. Man they should get some better people in there, and there production was a little shoddy too. They'd switch to a camera view that was not ready several times, and I don't get the long range view of the cage they kept doing?

 

[Duder1no]

lol UFC fanboys can't admit greatness lies outside the UFC

 

[Duder1no]

I like this one better :biggrin:

 

[TheNinja]

You don't have to say he's the GOAT but I don't know how you can't at least put him up there. Same with top 10 HW. I can see him dropping, probably out of the top 5, but to say he's out and put Mir or Big Nog in there I don't get.

I expected the commentary from Frank Shamrock and Mauro Renallo to be bad, but man it was terrible this time. Usually they call techniques wrong, and I hate when Frank says "he needs to get on the bicycle" but unfortunately he didn't even say that this time! And some people say Joe and Mike do a bad job... jeez! The Gus guy is goofy too. Bas and Schievallo in the prelims were so much better.

They were talking about Johnson and del Rosario. "The puncher, versus the striker" "big contrast of styles there". Then they say Johnson is the superior grappler but later say del Rosario should have taken it down where he had the edge. Man they should get some better people in there, and there production was a little shoddy too. They'd switch to a camera view that was not ready several times, and I don't get the long range view of the cage they kept doing?

A note on the commentators. It is my understanding that Showtime (not Strikeforce) chose those 3 guys for the main card since it was being broadcast on Showtime. Strikeforce chose the prelim announcers....which are FAR better than Showtime's choice.

Anyway, I can't wait to see Werdum vs. Overeem. Also, I'm still really pissed at Barnett. I hope he loses b/c he does not have a license to fight in California due to his THIRD failed piss test. Many state athletic commissions will honor suspensions of other states. Because of stupid Barnett it is possible some cards that he is on will be in Japan instead of the US since he can't fight here. I was hoping the finals would be in San Jose, CA since it is Strikeforce's home base.

 

[RPD]

Just more reason to hate his management, they claim other outside factors played into his loss.

"According to a translation of Voronov's interview, he believes certain "technologies" were used on both fighters from a distance that negatively affected Emelianenko's performance. His reasoning for the wild theory? Fedor did exactly the opposite of what they practiced beforehand. Also, before the fight, he thinks Fedor looked "a little depressed.""

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/02/...o-move-on-instead-of-making-excuses-for-loss/

Yes, seriously hypnosis is used.

 

[Crazee]

Just more reason to hate his management, they claim other outside factors played into his loss.

"According to a translation of Voronov's interview, he believes certain "technologies" were used on both fighters from a distance that negatively affected Emelianenko's performance. His reasoning for the wild theory? Fedor did exactly the opposite of what they practiced beforehand. Also, before the fight, he thinks Fedor looked "a little depressed.""

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/02/...o-move-on-instead-of-making-excuses-for-loss/

Yes, seriously hypnosis is used.

LOL maybe Silva hired the Osirian Portal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU4TDGlbTz8