Stubborn Congressman Tries to block Federal MJ Legalization bill

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
It would hit them financially, but they would more than likely overload the US with cocaine, meth, and heroin to make up for it. It isn't going to get rid of them, or lessen the violence at all.

I really doubt that they could make up their lost profits through coke, meth, and heroin. The demand simply isn't there to make up for it all.

As for getting rid of them, of course not. In order to stand a serious chance of doing that we would need to legalize all drugs. (something I support) As for the violence, maybe, maybe not. It would deplete their financial resources, which would weaken their position vis a vis the government.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
dank69 said:
Once again, the consequences of smoking weed are not 'very large'.
Tell me that again after you get busted and end up losing your job, or end up in jail etc. They are not always that bad, but they can be.

Do you not comprehend the absurdity of what you're writing? All along you've been arguing that MJ is dangerous. But now you reveal that the reason you think it's dangerous is that society has imposed severe penalties for its use. In case you don't understand logic, that's what's known as circular reasoning. You're in effect arguing that MJ should remain illegal because the criminal and social penalties for using MJ can be very bad.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
It would hit them financially, but they would more than likely overload the US with cocaine, meth, and heroin to make up for it. It isn't going to get rid of them, or lessen the violence at all.

They would try to. Problem is, while the market is big, this is where the gateway drug myth shows it's true colors.

A major component of the underground drug market is based on marijuana. Not all of it, but the majority of the network is built around pot, and they use that to deliver the other drugs.

Take that away, and it will become harder to deliver the tougher drugs. Allow people to buy their pot in the store and they'll no longer have to go to drug dealers to get it, and that's less traffic in the underground market.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Clearly millions and millions of people do, so it's a benefit to them. End of story.

Clearly they do, but that doesn't mean they are not stupid for pursuing that particular avenue. You can't argue whether someone considers something a benefit or not, that's up to each person, but you can say that a particular avenue for pursuing that particular benefit is stupid or not.

Now you're delving into details about smoking in the home while not arousing suspicions blah blah blah. That's just semantics. It doesn't change the fact that it's a stupid thing to do, just like any kind of smoking is. That doesn't mean people should not be free to be stupid if they like, but it is stupid.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Riiiiiight. You're the idiot killing brain cells smoking dope, whining about the laws, and I'm the troll.



If have no doubt all sorts of addictions cause a lot of harm. That's not the issue under discussion, now is it.

And no, I play legally. If they outlawed it and made it a serious offense, I would most certainly not play. I'm neither addicted nor illogical.

You're a pretentious troll bro.

How do you know I smoke dope?

Why are you lying about pot killing brain cells? If you don't know that pot doesn't kill brain cells you should back out of this thread now because you certainly aren't educated enough about the topic to talk about it.
 

ra990

Senior member
Aug 18, 2005
359
0
76
Pokerguy, you're really misinformed. Your entire reasoning is based on the premise that marijuana is illegal and therefore it is bad. But the fact is that it's not nearly as bad as some things that are perfectly legal, like alcohol, cigarettes, opiates, antidepressants, coffee, and other things people consume everyday to get their "fix".

You're one of these people that thinks marijuana is illegal because its bad and dangerous, but you also realize that the only reason its bad and dangerous is because of the consequences of it being illegal. It's time for that to change.

The idiot blocking this from debate states that the FDA has not found any acceptable uses for marijuana and guess what? They never will as long as it remains a schedule 1 federally controlled substance. People often cite that it has no official acceptable uses, but nobody can find any acceptable uses because research on it is not allowed!

Federal marijuana prohibition does not make sense on any level. If you disagree with this, then you are misinformed. I'm sorry, but it really is as simple as that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Clearly they do, but that doesn't mean they are not stupid for pursuing that particular avenue. You can't argue whether someone considers something a benefit or not, that's up to each person, but you can say that a particular avenue for pursuing that particular benefit is stupid or not.

But you did exactly that.


Now you're delving into details about smoking in the home while not arousing suspicions blah blah blah. That's just semantics. It doesn't change the fact that it's a stupid thing to do, just like any kind of smoking is. That doesn't mean people should not be free to be stupid if they like, but it is stupid.

Now reality is 'semantics'.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
7
76
I'm sure it would impact the cartels, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that they'd do as criminal organizations have done for thousands of years, they simply move into other crime.

Please address my post showing how ending prohibition had a drastic effect on crime and homicide rate.

Ending prohibition/war on drugs would have an incredibly positive on crime rates.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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Do you not comprehend the absurdity of what you're writing? All along you've been arguing that MJ is dangerous.

Learn to read. Learn to comprehend. I have not been arguing that MJ by itself is dangerous. If you think so, please show me where I argued that.

What I've said is, there are potential negative consequences to it - legal/health/financial. To do it anyway in the face of those potential consequences is stupid.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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But you did exactly that.

Learn to read. Learn to comprehend.

I did no such thing. You said it's a benefit, I say it's not. The answer depends on who you ask. The point is that even if you do consider it a benefit, it's a stupid way to achieve said "benefit".

Now reality is 'semantics'.

Oh, you mean some particular scenario you conjured up out of thin air to come up with specific parameters to make something less risky is now "reality"? Brilliant. You must be a liberal.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Learn to read. Learn to comprehend. I have not been arguing that MJ by itself is dangerous. If you think so, please show me where I argued that.

What I've said is, there are potential negative consequences to it - legal/health/financial. To do it anyway in the face of those potential consequences is stupid.

Then what's your damn point then?

You came in here just to insult pot smokers and call them stupid. This is why just about everyone in here is either calling you a troll or ignorant. It's because your statements are absolutely and completely irrelevant to the discussion. Yet you've mentioned how 'stupid' smoking pot is like 50 times.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Riiiiiight. You're the idiot killing brain cells smoking dope, whining about the laws, and I'm the troll.



If have no doubt all sorts of addictions cause a lot of harm. That's not the issue under discussion, now is it.

And no, I play legally. If they outlawed it and made it a serious offense, I would most certainly not play. I'm neither addicted nor illogical.

Smoking pot does not kill brain cells, that would be drinking booze that does that and those cells killed when you have even one drink, never grow back, IIRC.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Please address my post showing how ending prohibition had a drastic effect on crime and homicide rate.

Ending prohibition/war on drugs would have an incredibly positive on crime rates.

I haven't had time to read the links yet, but regardless, you're making an assumption that all other factors remain the same, and that the same impact will be seen. Perhaps the results would be the same, perhaps not.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
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I'm completely logical about it. The potential negative consequences are vastly larger than the upside, unless you are stupid or addicted (or both).

If you look at the use of MJ in this strict sense you are, then sure. But the exact same applies to having a beer: The upside (brief period of relaxation, etc) is dwarfed by the potential consequences (alcoholism, impaired driving, etc). Is this what you are getting at?

However, in practice neither works that way since many are able to enjoy either while keeping the consequences in mind and avoiding them.

I also don't believe marijuana is physically addictive like alcohol or opiates, if anyone disagrees I am all ears, er eyes I mean.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Less smoking, more reading

While smoking MJ to ingest THC is efficient and the most popular method, by no means is it the only method. There are far less damaging methods. If legalized/decriminalized, I am sure we will see these other methods become more popular. From what I understand, marijuana DOES NOT cause lung cancer even. If you are using THC for medicinal purposes, you shouldn't have to smoke it IMO however.

The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.

The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.

"We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

Just calling a spade a spade.

Do you have the same opinion if one chooses to have a beer? Just curious, not trying to nitpick.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
They would try to. Problem is, while the market is big, this is where the gateway drug myth shows it's true colors.

I don't believe that pot is a gateway drug at all. Throughout my life I have known MANY pot smokers, and the vast majority of them never moved on to any other drug.

A major component of the underground drug market is based on marijuana. Not all of it, but the majority of the network is built around pot, and they use that to deliver the other drugs.

Take that away, and it will become harder to deliver the tougher drugs. Allow people to buy their pot in the store and they'll no longer have to go to drug dealers to get it, and that's less traffic in the underground market.

There will be a LOT less traffic, but the routes, and network is in place. The thing about the other drugs is they require a lot less space than pot to transport. You'd have to move ten kilos of weed to make the profit that one kilo of coke can bring, even more for heroin.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Learn to read. Learn to comprehend.

I did no such thing. You said it's a benefit, I say it's not. The answer depends on who you ask. The point is that even if you do consider it a benefit, it's a stupid way to achieve said "benefit".

Hahaha, you argued that pot smokers weren't getting a benefit out of it, then followed it up with 'you can't really argue about who considers it a benefit'. Amazing.

Oh, you mean some particular scenario you conjured up out of thin air to come up with specific parameters to make something less risky is now "reality"? Brilliant. You must be a liberal.

If by 'some particular scenario I conjured up out of thin air' you mean 'the way in which the vast majority of marijuana is consumed' then sure. Holding strong opinions about something you clearly know nothing about? You must be a conservative.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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But the exact same applies to having a beer: The upside (brief period of relaxation, etc) is dwarfed by the potential consequences (alcoholism, impaired driving, etc). Is this what you are getting at?

Indeed you could make that same argument, except that it's a legal substance so a MAJOR portion of potential negative consequences is removed from the equation. It's the same argument though, agreed.

I also don't believe marijuana is physically addictive like alcohol or opiates, if anyone disagrees I am all ears, er eyes I mean.

From what I've read, I'd agree with that statement. However, you have to wonder: one of the definitions of an addiction is that you do continue the behavior even in the face of negative consequences. MJ might not have the same physical addiction, but it would appear to be addictive in some way.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Less smoking, more reading

Just calling a spade a spade.

Ok, it's pretty well known that pot doesn't make people stupid.

Plenty of smart people smoke pot all the time.

You might claim it's stupid to smoke pot because of the illegality, but if it were legal, there'd be no argument.

So the spade is not really a spade. In your mind it may be stupid to smoke pot, and doing so is a 'stupid' behavior, but that single act doesn't encompass the total of one person's character or intellect so you can't just say pot smokers are stupid.
 
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IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
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ITT: pokerguy trolls everyone with entirely qualitative and subjective observations about topics he admittedly has no direct experience with.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Cancer patients get a benefit from it.

Absolutely. I agree 100% with real medicinal use, I don't see why it should be treated any differently than any other medicine, the ban on it's use for that purpose is BS. Note that I said "real" medicinal use, not the excuses the dopeheads come up with to get high.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
I don't believe that pot is a gateway drug at all. Throughout my life I have known MANY pot smokers, and the vast majority of them never moved on to any other drug.

IF there is any truth to marijuana being a gateway drug, legalization would probably reduce that affect. Why? Currently when someone buys marijuana from a dealer, chances are they are pushing something else too. "You know, if you like marijuana you will really like ______!"

If/when it is legalized and sold in a controlled manner, that scenario is taken away. You would have to explicitly go after the harder and addictive shit, it would not be sold along side the marijuana.

Antidote: the marijuana smokers I have known look down on the addictive stuff, whether it be alcohol or hard drugs. *shrug*
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
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Absolutely. I agree 100% with real medicinal use, I don't see why it should be treated any differently than any other medicine, the ban on it's use for that purpose is BS. Note that I said "real" medicinal use, not the excuses the dopeheads come up with to get high.

I think the medicinal coop crap in CA is actually hurting the movement. From what I have read getting a scrip for marijuana boils down to coming up with a couple hundred bucks and an ambiguous condition.
 
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