Student loans

[LunarRay]

The top 10% of ... say a Princeton class is far less than the cost incurred by the lower 70% and even more than the lowest 20%. An exception would be for those who are athletic members of the Tiger crew. The grants and scholarships given by the various endowments and other means are enjoyed by the cream of the crop.

I'd think today a four year stint would cost about 200,00$ IF you had to pay full fare and near 60,000$ for the typical heavy cream student. Grad school is a bit different but to get into Princeton's Grad program you are very heavy cream. But that aside, the folks in the bottom tiers really are bright but they will struggle with getting employed (in general) with salaries that can easily take care of the loans they must obtain. And they suffer.

I figure folks who can't get a free ride or near free ride ought going to a two year junior college and then try to get into the upper division of the best school they can likely afford.

If you got the brains you enjoy the school name recognition essentially free and if not then you are paying to get in the door but that won't keep you in the room...

 

[Fenixgoon]

OK, but by that logic, literally no one should become a teacher. Most teaching positions require post-graduate work or a Masters, and the median pay for teachers is far less than that of engineers. In fact, there are lots of professional occupations that require at least a bachelor's degree and pay far less than engineering. Should no one go into these fields because it's not as lucrative as engineering? How would society fare with no teachers? I don't think it's as simple as "the career that makes the most money is the best."

i'm saying that financing 4 years of college education may not be the (financially) brightest move when you end up with a teaching degree at the end of the day.

 

[SandEagle]

4.1% of the population of the United States is on welfare.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

heh. i hate being right all the time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ob-Data-shows-THIRD-U-S-welfare-handouts.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-third-americans-receiving-welfare-benefits/

Newly released Census data reveals nearly 110 million Americans – more than one-third of the country – are receiving government assistance of some kind.

 

[GoPackGo]

i'm saying that financing 4 years of college education may not be the (financially) brightest move when you end up with a teaching degree at the end of the day.

Then we will have no teachers.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Then we will have no teachers.

or you could go to a school where you have a large % scholarship. debt is not necessarily a bad thing. debt that cripples you for literally decades of your life? that's problematic.

 

[Sonikku]

Shortly after Obama took over student loans, making the federal government a bank, Congress increased the percentage rates for student loans by almost twice the interest rate. Good luck. Students loans cant be forgiven, and they can hold it against you when you apply for loans. They can even deduct it from your Social Security.

That's why you pay off your student loans with a credit card! Convert government debt to private debt. Then declare bankruptcy.

 

[squarecut1]

That's why you pay off your student loans with a credit card!

I don't think you can

 

[Jhhnn]

heh. i hate being right all the time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ob-Data-shows-THIRD-U-S-welfare-handouts.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-third-americans-receiving-welfare-benefits/

Being "On Welfare" is not the same as receiving some govt assistance. My family, for example, obtains health insurance through the CO exchange. We receive a subsidy of $14/mo. Somehow, that doesn't feel like being on welfare. I would suggest that most people receiving assistance don't get a helluva lot of it, nor is it a permanent situation for most.

I would also suggest that it's the result of the Job Creators not creating jobs at all, at least not in this country. They like it the way it is- offshore production, automate, increase profits, pay low wages in an extremely competitive labor market, pay low taxes, loan money to the govt for social welfare & an enormous military to protect their offshore endeavors. As concentration of income & wealth increase, we'll see more of the same.

We clearly lack the awareness or the political will to do it any differently, again thanks to the Job Creators & their mastery of the Media.

 

[iGas]

i'm saying that financing 4 years of college education may not be the (financially) brightest move when you end up with a teaching degree at the end of the day.

A liberal arts degree does affect the prospect of salary and perhaps employment, but IMHO the current unemployment and low salary is affecting all professions, due to the large number of degree mills that the colleges are churning out presently compare to the relatively lower graduages in the past. And, to make matter worst is that electronic automation is coming online, as well as the growth in global competition for manufacturing/skill/technical jobs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2014-03-12/job-automation-threatens-workforce.html

48% of computer programing jobs will be obsolete due to automation.

 

[soccerballtux]

one of my facebook friends was complaining about how she has 30k in student loan left and will be paying it off for a long time (she's a teacher). well here's a brilliant idea, don't get a bazillion dollars in student loans if you can't pay them back.

i busted my ass in school, got multiple scholarships, and paid all 17k of my loans back in about 2 years. then again, i majored in engineering where we can actually get paid a decent amount to pay back all those loans.

so maybe we shouldn't be handing out loans like candy. maybe people should take a hard look at whether it's actually worth going into such massive debt for a degree that will end up paying little

hahaha scholarships.
those don't exist where I went, except for the 1st year to pull you in.
my 3.8GPA friend? Also engineering like me. No scholarships.
Then again, we went to one of the best, but for some people, it's simply not possible. My friend graduated with >100k

 

[Fenixgoon]

hahaha scholarships.
those don't exist where I went, except for the 1st year to pull you in.
my 3.8GPA friend? Also engineering like me. No scholarships.
Then again, we went to one of the best, but for some people, it's simply not possible. My friend graduated with >100k

but you could have chosen a different school, yes?

fwiw, i got a one-time scholarship to UIUC for engineering. i laughed. $1500 when one year's out-of-state tuition is $34k. suuuuure, let me attend there.

 

[Exterous]

or you could go to a school where you have a large % scholarship.

How much scholarship money do you think is out there?

 

[Jhhnn]

How much scholarship money do you think is out there?

Why does it matter? How many jobs do you think are out there?

unless you're a very high achiever, college is more & more just marking time for the welfare line, with debt as baggage. Oh, and they'll pass you over for low paying jobs, because you're overqualified.

Job Creators! Merica! Hell yeh!

 

[TheSlamma]

There are still some schools out there that are reasonable the problem is these BS big name schools people think they have to go to will crush you. My brother got his 4 year degree in microbiology at Metro state in Denver for a fraction of the cost of DU and CU Denver students and he was in the exact same classes sitting right next to them.

HR doesn't care where you get your basket weaving degree from, as long as you have it.

I do well enough for myself for not having a degree but it has prevented me from being considered for jobs I was way qualified for and have been doing for over 20 years. So while you can make it for sure I have been the victim many times of not making it past the HR antiquated degree barrier.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

At some point, parents and students should have realized that they were effing themselves. I'm hoping that the system implodes in the next 5 years ( I have a 13 yo) and tuition drops to a more reasonable level. LK posted a link showing Clemson's budget increased 36% over the last 5 years. I'm fairly sure the quality of education didn't increase 36%.

There are articles about how much online education is taking off (due in a large part from the free harvard classes and such).

Why you ask? Mass education from well qualified individuals (a' la not Phoenix University retarded professors) over the internet. It could basically make the ENTIRE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM crumble from within as the entire country asks itself "Why the fuck do I need to go to a University when I can just stay with Mom and Dad and take it online?"

 

[sze5003]

I had a good gpa, 3.9 in college, applied for several scholarships, wrote many essays, didn't get anything. I have about 70k in loans to pay off including a parent plus loan my parents took out. Due to my family income I didn't qualify for aid but my parents didn't have money to put in for my school yet they insisted I go to a state school. I worked in college and made enough to pay for books, gas, food, etc.

Yea the payments suck every month but I have a job where it's stable and get a little raise every year. I pay them every month and still have money left for other things, not a lot left but it's not like I'm empty.

Now that my parents are divorced I told my sister to go to community for two years. She got into decent schools but my mother doesn't make much and the aid she got would not be enough without taking out loans so I advised her not to do that.

Financial aid will pay mostly all of her community college courses and she works so she also pays for her books and such. So I'm not very bitter but I'm much happier at least she won't have a ton of debt to pay off if her grades stay good.

I also think students these days need to figure out something they like in a field that makes money. Everyone says study what you like...but you can't always make money like that.

I wanted to fly fighter jets but didn't have perfect vision so air force told me I could do other things like work on the a10 systems and such but I really wanted to just fly.

Getting a degree in flight from a decent state university would have put me in a lot more debt so I just stuck with what I was good at, computers, programming, etc.

It's important to look at the market now vs future and also go the cheaper route. I also don't think students should be able to get private loans easily either.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

A liberal arts degree does affect the prospect of salary and perhaps employment, but IMHO the current unemployment and low salary is affecting all professions, due to the large number of degree mills that the colleges are churning out presently compare to the relatively lower graduages in the past. And, to make matter worst is that electronic automation is coming online, as well as the growth in global competition for manufacturing/skill/technical jobs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/infographics/2014-03-12/job-automation-threatens-workforce.html

48% of computer programing jobs will be obsolete due to automation.

48% of computer programing jobs will be obsolete due to automation? That makes no sense.... the programming IS the automation....

I think what you're saying is simply there is an abundance of computer programming grads? In either case, computer programming is a funny thing, if you are well-rounded enough, you can get paid 6-figures easily programming in languages like COBOL and FORTRAN that no one fucking uses anymore. Given the scarcity of the language, it can be used to your advantage :sneaky:

Computer programming languages move with time, while many companies do not. They lag behind and stick with old languages in old versions.... and someone has to be there that knows the old versions that aren't being taught anymore.

 

[Darwin333]

How was it that there was a time when average people could afford a college education and they can't today?

The .gov got involved in providing the damn near unlimited financing to people to pay for college. Unfortunately, unlike just about any other debt possible, student loan debt isn't discharable via bankruptcy which basically creates indentured servants because you made a bad choice when you were 17-18 (gee, can't believe an 18 year old made a bad choice!).

I guarantee that if banks were the only source of student loans and those loans could be discharged in bankruptcy court (just like every other type of debt they own) the cost of college would drop overnight. OTOH, keep giving them virtually unlimited funding via choices made by kids and you will continue to see tuition costs shoot the moon.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

of course my work ethic has rewarded me with only being between jobs once (for 3 weeks) in my 40 year work career.

Translation: "I've got mine, F you!"

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Decades ago people immigrated to the United States from other nations seeking opportunity. In future decades, will we see American college graduates flee to other nations in order to avoid having to pay their student loans?

"I've always wanted to go to Tanzania."

 

[sze5003]

Decades ago people immigrated to the United States from other nations seeking opportunity. In future decades, will we see American college graduates flee to other nations in order to avoid having to pay their student loans?

"I've always wanted to go to Tanzania."

Yea I know someone who did this. He went to school here with some engineering degree and now makes bank in his home country, but I'm not too sure how relevant his degree is over there.

 

[Jhhnn]

I guarantee that if banks were the only source of student loans and those loans could be discharged in bankruptcy court (just like every other type of debt they own) the cost of college would drop overnight.

I don't think that's true at all. What we would see is an enormous scaling back in college level education entirely, simply because of lack of demand. We'd also see layoffs & reduced purchasing of everything used in the process.

For young people, it'd mean no college & no jobs, either, & a big bump in official unemployment numbers.

The current system is unsustainable, simply because we can't figure out how to distribute goods & services outside of the long held work for a living paradigm. There's not enough work to be done, at least not the kind that entices Job Creators to actually create jobs in this country.

They told us that automation & offshoring would give us more free time- they didn't tell us that meant nothing else for a large segment of the population.

 

[TheSiege]

My question with this, like with health care, if the cost is growing exponentially, and its clear that it is, where is this money going? Who is getting this extra money? Where is all this cash going exactly?

 

[Jhhnn]

My question with this, like with health care, if the cost is growing exponentially, and its clear that it is, where is this money going? Who is getting this extra money? Where is all this cash going exactly?

Except that's not clear at all. If that's your premise, you need to support it, both wrt college loans & health care.

Probably not.