Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers (Multiple times)

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nut thinks he's a lawyer. Disobying lawful orders.. Cusing and stuff too.... he's lucky he wasnt shot. This is why I could'nt be a cop.

Kinder gentler cops talk way too much. "Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up"...ad nauseum

Nice strawman.

Use of force is supposed to match the actions or inactions of the suspect. It's supposed to be a balanced scale. You are suggesting that it's either a feather or a 75lb cement block on the scale.

Little hyperbole there. My point was they should have come down on him like a ton of bricks to control situation. Not escalate and waffling etc.. and now facing 40 witnesses and video of screaming kid.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Arkaign
the officers (who overwhelmingly had the upper hand) should have IMMEDIATELY flipped him, cuffed him, and carried him out. End of story, let him cool off while in holding, and that's it..

Thats what I was thinking.. Same thing in Rodney king thing. Dog pile him hog tie him and stuff him in police car. 30 seconds, done.

Maybe they are afriad of getting too close to suspects because they are armed and suspect may get thier weapon. Most cops are built pretty good so it's not like they can't man handle one guy. They instead use this taser crap which just seems to make suspect less compliant everytime I've seen such a video. Either suspects muscles can't do what cops ask or it just pisses them off to the point of non cooperation. Either way looks bad when caught on film and they need to act faster to prevent surround crowd from becoming a problem too like we saw in this video.

Now this I 100% agree with.

I do as well. The bottom line is the cops could have easily handled this situation more quickly and without using the taser, and at the very least, without using the taser more than once.

And I also agree that the taser seems to only do the opposite of what it is used to do. Like Zebo said, it either prevents the perp from being able to physically do what the cops need for him/her to do, or upsets the perp even more (and I'd be pissed, too, if I thought I didn't deserve it), making him/her even more uncooperative.

The ended up picking the guy up and dragging him out anyway, and that should have been done 3-4 tasers before. Not only would that have prevented the need for tasing him, but it would have ended the conflict more quickly.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: senseamp
As CA taxpayer paying these morons' salaries, I hope they get fired and stripped of benefits. If I go to use the UC library, which my taxes also pay for, I don't deserve to be tazered multiple times. If I ask these morons for their badge number, I don't deserve to be threatened with a taser. These guys are on a power trip, and they need to be checked. You don't stop them now, they'll start murdering people like some of these other cases. They aren't entitled to the job. If UC community doesn't want them around, they should be let go.

Funny I've never had a problem with cops and I used to be a real live hell raiser not like this little weasel.. school fights... DWI..bar fights etc... Most of the time they let me off due to my pleasing disposition One cop made me dump a whole 12 pack of beer in gutter on senior skip day as we were trolling for girls in my jeep with open containers. The key is being respectful, poltie, calm, total cooperation.. I like cops so much I'm a FOP and other police support member today.

I can agree with you there as well. Some people call it ass-kissing, I call it getting the heck out of a bad situation.

I don't think there is any disagreement in regards to what the kid did, of course he made this situation worse for himself. I think the disagreement is with the cops and how they reacted to the situation.

Both screwed up here, that's for sure. But the cops are getting paid for what they do, and they are the ones that are supposed to be professional. Should they be fired, no I don't think so, not if this is a first-offense kind of situation. But if they continue to show that they cannot handle situations like this in an effective, and professional manner, then yes, they don't deserve to be cops. Their actions only make other cops, who do their jobs correctly, look bad.

What if the other kids had decided to come to this guy's assistance and got physical with the cops? Someone probably would have been killed, and at the very least, the situation would have been 100 times worse.

The cops let this sitiation drag on, and I certainly believe they used too much force, and also took a risk of the situation getting further out of hand than it needed to be.

Tase him once, cuff his ass, and get him out of there.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Zebo
Nut thinks he's a lawyer. Disobying lawful orders.. Cusing and stuff too.... he's lucky he wasnt shot. This is why I could'nt be a cop.

Kinder gentler cops talk way too much. "Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up""Stand up"...ad nauseum

Nice strawman.

Use of force is supposed to match the actions or inactions of the suspect. It's supposed to be a balanced scale. You are suggesting that it's either a feather or a 75lb cement block on the scale.

Little hyperbole there. My point was they should have come down on him like a ton of bricks to control situation. Not escalate and waffling etc.. and now facing 40 witnesses and video of screaming kid.

If you make a statement then expect to be called on it. Sometimes its obvious that people are purposefully bloating a point to make a point in itself and that's fine, but your comment was unrecognizable as such. Especially since it fell in step with all the other naive comments in this thread.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Tase him once, cuff his ass, and get him out of there.

Just because the act of pressing a button/trigger without a noticable reaction, besides the perp, is rather underwhelming compared to taking swings at him or kicking him to comply doesn't suddenly make it OK to use whenever you please. Cops seem to think so because its easier to get away with tazing someone vs putting a boot in a perp's gut. In society we tend to have a negative view of someone punching, kicking or forcing a person's body parts in ways they aren't meant to go. It's physical and people understand and can relate to what that's like. Very few people can relate to being tazed or sprayed with pepper spray.

I think some people here need to take a few swings from a 200lb guy and then follow that up with being sprayed and then tazed so they can have an appreciation of what the difference is. Which is none.

Why is it so hard to realize this I don't know. Police Chiefs in Canada realized this over a decade ago and it has become policy even if only passively enforced. I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

From my understanding most if not all officers must be tased as part of the certification process, though that may vary from state to state.

 

[KAZANI]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
He brought it all on to himself. If you disobey a police officer, they can use non leathel force to detain you. The guy was being a douchebag, disobeying the officers repeatedly. This is not a case of police brutality.

You make it sound as if a cop's word is God-sent.

By all means this was a case of police brutality. And it's really sickening that it happened inside a university library where so many educated individuals were witnesses and yet did not stop it. This failure to raise a civil liberties alarm on their part is a clear indicator that the USA has turned into a paragon of modern fascism.

Land of the free...BOLLOX!

 

[Darkhawk28]

It's not surprising that our local Bushbots just love someone being tasered unneccesarily.

Sometimes I really do think that you all are little nazis.

 

[cwjerome]

There's a chance they have been tasered. Several law orgs in Arizona, including the Maricopa County Corrections Dept, taser people who will use the tasers. I've been tasered... but the two welts on my back from the hooks bothered me more than the electric current.

Bad move by the cops, but it's certainly not brutality.

 

[KAZANI]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Bad move by the cops, but it's certainly not brutality.

Just as waterboarding isn't torture. Good job with that reality warping! :frown:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

From my understanding most if not all officers must be tased as part of the certification process, though that may vary from state to state.

Perhaps he should be "re-certified".

 

[slash196]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

From my understanding most if not all officers must be tased as part of the certification process, though that may vary from state to state.

Perhaps he should be "re-certified".

I'd like to "re-certify" the officer in the nuts.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: slash196

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

From my understanding most if not all officers must be tased as part of the certification process, though that may vary from state to state.

Perhaps he should be "re-certified".

I'd like to "re-certify" the officer in the nuts.

Its always fun to throw insults at those sworn to protect you isnt it? Stop arm chair quarterbacking what happened. Until you have been in a situation like that you have no idea what its like.

Even though you might enjoy mocking those that deal with the stuff everyday that you would run and hide from, they will still be there to protect you in your time of need.

 

[MisterDucky]

Originally posted by: bamacre
First of all, it seems wrong of the guy for alledgedly disobeying the police offices, and it may even seem fair he was tased, the first time.

He was not causing anyone harm. He did not have any weapons on him. The officers had zero reason to believe he was a danger to anyone. There were multiple officers on the scene. They could have dragged his butt out of the library. IMO, this is WAY over the line, and a perfect example of police brutality.

I'm glad I was not him, but even more so, I'm glad I was not one of the witnesses. I bet I could have felt the integrity oozing out of my body watching this and doing nothing.

To be honest, I think UCLA and/or the Powell library administration are mostly at fault.

From what I can gather, UCLA has some policy where they randomly check library patrons working on computers to see if they have a student ID. This student was randomly asked if he had a student ID, and asked to leave when he couldn't produce one. When he refused (which seems reasonable--is it reasonable for a college to deny someone services they are entitled to, and have payed for?), the police were called, and then hell broke loose.

This seems ridiculous; why not use the highly evolved authentication that almost all major operating systems currently provide? My college does this exact thing; to use a computer on campus, one must first enter their student ID and password.

Instead, they decide to implement a policy that requires them to literally confront people (in the library no less, where people may be doing research and not appreciate the interruption) and verify if they are allowed to be using the computer. That is absurd. For starters, this sort of policy is simply begging for the aforementioned confrontation. Second, it requires someone to physically ask people; surely that person could be doing something more productive while UNIX or Windows is tasked with handling user authentication.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: MisterDucky

Originally posted by: bamacre
First of all, it seems wrong of the guy for alledgedly disobeying the police offices, and it may even seem fair he was tased, the first time.

He was not causing anyone harm. He did not have any weapons on him. The officers had zero reason to believe he was a danger to anyone. There were multiple officers on the scene. They could have dragged his butt out of the library. IMO, this is WAY over the line, and a perfect example of police brutality.

I'm glad I was not him, but even more so, I'm glad I was not one of the witnesses. I bet I could have felt the integrity oozing out of my body watching this and doing nothing.

To be honest, I think UCLA and/or the Powell library administration are mostly at fault.

From what I can gather, UCLA has some policy where they randomly check library patrons working on computers to see if they have a student ID. This student was randomly asked if he had a student ID, and asked to leave when he couldn't produce one. When he refused (which seems reasonable--is it reasonable for a college to deny someone services they are entitled to, and have payed for?), the police were called, and then hell broke loose.

This seems ridiculous; why not use the highly evolved authentication that almost all major operating systems currently provide? My college does this exact thing; to use a computer on campus, one must first enter their student ID and password.

Instead, they decide to implement a policy that requires them to literally confront people (in the library no less, where people may be doing research and not appreciate the interruption) and verify if they are allowed to be using the computer. That is absurd. For starters, this sort of policy is simply begging for the aforementioned confrontation. Second, it requires someone to physically ask people; surely that person could be doing something more productive while UNIX or Windows is tasked with handling user authentication.

Well said :thumbsup:

 

[blahblah99]

I find it funny how a lot of you are just talking out of your ass without knowing the policies that UCLA implemented for after-hour access to buildings.

UCLA has an after-hours policy of ID requirement for any building on campus, and that policy is in place for obvious reasons. Some buildings are open late past 10pm on campus, and since it is a public university, anybody who has no reason to be on campus can walk right in without ID.

In order to enforce the building policies, there are CTO officers (students working as security guards) regularly checking and enforcing policies. That is STANDARD PROCEDURE and is done regularly after hours, at least that was how it was when I was in school. To say that he was singled out because of his race is purely absurd. ID checking is done on everyone in the building for security reasons above.

UCPD is only involved when the CTO radios in for help since they do not have any equipment on them nor are they allowed any powers to arrest/charge/ticket people. The kid was knowingly drawing attention when he was asked to leave due to lack of ID. Every student at UCLA knows this policy - it is posted visibly as you walk in the building/lab/room.

I just love how everyone leaves out the details or jump to conclusions without knowing why this have occured in the first place.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: slash196

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: canadageek
the easy way to train cops in the use of tasers is to taser them. you're going to be a bit more lenient with tasers if you know how much it hurts (i was voluntarily taser'd) same with pepper spray. and riot gas. here in canada, all RCMP officers are exposed to their equipment. all of it. (well, they aren't shot, thats a bit hardcore)

I think the cop overdid it and abused his authority. Nobody was "really" hurt so no big deal, but I kind of like the idea of putting that cop to the taser so he can see what it's like. That way, they both might learn something from this incident.

From my understanding most if not all officers must be tased as part of the certification process, though that may vary from state to state.

Perhaps he should be "re-certified".

I'd like to "re-certify" the officer in the nuts.

Its always fun to throw insults at those sworn to protect you isnt it? Stop arm chair quarterbacking what happened. Until you have been in a situation like that you have no idea what its like.

Even though you might enjoy mocking those that deal with the stuff everyday that you would run and hide from, they will still be there to protect you in your time of need.

Been there, done that.

It was back in the 60's and an aquaintence of mine and myself got stopped by the cops (for nothing) and were told to get out of the car. He had long hair and I'm sure had been smoking some of that demon weed. Anyway the guy I was with apparently got out too fast and he got shot him in the arm, luckily it didn't hit the bone, just a "flesh wound". Oh, we did have any grass either, so apprantley we just looked so different we were "threatening". So I have been in a similar situation, but before they had tazers. I'm sure it's much easier now for a cop to justify unecessary force now that it isn't so lethal.

So continue to blindly support the police as people who can do no wrong. That's just naive, they aren't infallable and every now and then they need to be reminded of that fact.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: blahblah99
I find it funny how a lot of you are just talking out of your ass without knowing the policies that UCLA implemented for after-hour access to buildings.

UCLA has an after-hours policy of ID requirement for any building on campus, and that policy is in place for obvious reasons. Some buildings are open late past 10pm on campus, and since it is a public university, anybody who has no reason to be on campus can walk right in without ID.

In order to enforce the building policies, there are CTO officers (students working as security guards) regularly checking and enforcing policies. That is STANDARD PROCEDURE and is done regularly after hours, at least that was how it was when I was in school. To say that he was singled out because of his race is purely absurd. ID checking is done on everyone in the building for security reasons above.

UCPD is only involved when the CTO radios in for help since they do not have any equipment on them nor are they allowed any powers to arrest/charge/ticket people. The kid was knowingly drawing attention when he was asked to leave due to lack of ID. Every student at UCLA knows this policy - it is posted visibly as you walk in the building/lab/room.

I just love how everyone leaves out the details or jump to conclusions without knowing why this have occured in the first place.

If you read the whole thread, I think the postion of most everyone here is that the police were well within their rights to taser him the first time. After that is where the question of using unnecessary force comes up.

 

[imported_dna]

Agreed.

This was really lame, with all that reptition of "STAND UP".

I remember seeing on that show -- Cops, I believe -- where a single officer confronted a guy who had a bit to drink.
The guy was standing there, with his hands in his pocket, and would not take them out; then the cop rushed him, hit him in the face or neck, the guy ended up on his stomach, and the cop had his shin on his throat, and holding one of his arms -- all of this in two seconds. He then handcuffed him, and had got him to stand up, and then they went through the usual steps.

On the other hand, these guys could've smacked him once, cuffed him, and then drag him away. All that tazing seemed very much like abuse of power, no matter how loud the guy was yelling.

Cops show flashback: I remeber one part where three cops were struggling with this huge guy; they had him down, and were on top of him, but he was too strong to be handcuffed (obviously, he was resisiting), so one of them hooked up the wires, gave him a warning, and then tazed him; after that, he was cooperative. Compared to that, tazing the student seems like an overkill, and bordering on sadism.

 

[Genx87]

Guy brought it on himself, sorry, I couldnt get any sympathy for him. He was asked over and over like a child to get up and move and he refused.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: KAZANI

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
He brought it all on to himself. If you disobey a police officer, they can use non leathel force to detain you. The guy was being a douchebag, disobeying the officers repeatedly. This is not a case of police brutality.

You make it sound as if a cop's word is God-sent.

By all means this was a case of police brutality. And it's really sickening that it happened inside a university library where so many educated individuals were witnesses and yet did not stop it. This failure to raise a civil liberties alarm on their part is a clear indicator that the USA has turned into a paragon of modern fascism.

Land of the free...BOLLOX!

Just because your in college I would hardly make the assumption their "highly educated". In fact, some of the dumbest ideas seem to come from these college kids who have very little real world understanding of what they want to implement will really do.

Additionally, on the street the cops word IS God-sent. As I said previously, I dont give as damn what the cop is telling you to do. You dont argue or disagree or refuse, you take it to court.

Again, the kid refused multiple requests from multiple people. He escalated the situation, and he found out what the costs of that was. What he SHOULD have done is got up, been polite and respectful and left. If he felt there was a problem he should have found legal representation. What he should NOT have done was fly off the handle like a damn spoiled brat. Which is what he most likely is.

 

[imported_dna]

It's not about sympathy for the guy. Would you find it acceptable that, instead of tasing, they would've smacked him with the batons several times, then asked him to get up, and when he didn't -- repeat the process again?

Sure, it's pretty easy to dismiss tasing as no big deal, just because you don't see blood, and the cops aren't using any physical force.

I think it boils down to this: just because they could have, doesn't mean they should have. I refer you to my previous post with examples from the Cops show, where tasing was not the first option.

These cops just didn't want their uniforms ruffled.

 

[glutenberg]

As in all things, the situation is not black and white. We could make up numerous examples of "what would we have done," but in all honesty, you weren't there. Generally, I doubt most of the posters here have ever been officers, you are keyboard crusaders. It's true that police are just as flawed as normal people but it is also true that they are generally able to remain composed during extreme stress situations.

As blahblah99 pointed out, he was first asked to leave by the CSO (these are current students at UCLA which leads me to believe that they are not out and about looking to racially profile people. Also, many are using their jobs as CSOs to pay for tuition so it's also doubtful that they would risk their education for the sake of picking on people of a certain race) but he decided that today would be the day that he makes a stand. The CSO then had to call in the UCPD (which are LAPD officers and not just rent-a-cops like everyone likes to convenientyly believe), which the article said took a few minutes to arrive, and the student remained uncooperative. Ensuing events occurred and it seems that both parties were in the wrong.

As a personal sidenote, if I were an officer and had to make an arrest in a heavily populated area late at night with a crowd of people encroaching from behind me, I would tell them to stay back too. You don't ask for badge numbers when the event is occurring, you ask for it afterwards. That's like me strolling up to a police officer trying to make an arrest and badgering him. It's just not a bright thing to do.

As a graduate of UCLA last year, I will say that the students there strive to be liberal in their views and are oftens swept up by the bandwagon. You're in a liberal college to allow free thought, debate, and discussion but they are so easily absorbed by emotional arguments that many times they disillusion themselves. I will reserve my judgement of either parties as we really don't know that much about the case and the events that occurred prior to the UCPD's arrival. I suggest others do the same and stop spouting nonsense like the kid deserved it or that the police are abusing their power. You really have no idea and crusading on the internet doesn't help your case.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Drift3r
So what would you do to several armed police officers? Seriously what action could you take other then recording or reporting the incident? Oh and looking at the video the guy wouldn't follow directions given by the police officers and was warned several times to stand up. It may seem ugly but anyone who refuses to follow directions is bringing this situation upon themselves.

PS. He was asked to leave the computer lab when he could not produce any id to prove that he was a student at the school. He started acting up when a officer put his hand on his arm as he was being escorted. This guy brought this onto himself. If he had the strength to scream out and make statements like he did then he should of had the strength to get up and walk out like he did after they left the building according the officers in the articles you posted.

<German accent> Where are your papers? <accent off>

Really if you think my statements reflect your little statement there then you have some serious issues. This guy was asked to produce his school ID on a private campus and did not do so. He started shouting and screaming and inciting others to join him as he refused to leave. After being warned by the cops that they would taser him several he still did not get up from the ground.

You people forget that the tasering on this video started after he was on the ground and was refusing to get up. He was warned that this would happen if he continued with his actions and he refused to heed those warnings. He brought this onto himself.