Study - more and more young men are playing video games instead of getting jobs

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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
That's land per amount of crops. The number of human crop-eaters is going like this:

That doesn't allow for "mothballing arable land".

LoL, is that why Americans are the most obese humans to exist in entire evolutionary history of homo sapiens? Why we routinely throw away mountains of uneaten food? That even the poorest Americans today are as fat as walruses? That broad swathes of land that was once used to grow food crops is now used to grow corn for ethanol? And yes,,, we have been mothballing arable land in American for the last 50 years.... especially in states like Wisconsin.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Amend that, it has declined slightly. You were correct. The productivity of the land has exploded in response to the warming climate brought about by the man injecting carbon into the atmosphere. My original chart showed the MASSIVE and INCREDIBLE rise in productivity. I interpreted incorrectly and inferred that there had been a massive decline in farmland. There has been a measureable decline in farmland but it probably does not rise to the level of "massive".


 
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Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Someone with a basic science bachelor's is probably better off going to work for less entry money at a business that promotes from within. Overall, growth potential is severely overlooked causing people to pass on jobs with low pay and low prestige. And many business owners are desperate for a decent employee to climb the ladder.
I'm not sure where you live or work, but that's not how it works in most places. There is no ladder to climb. You will never be promoted or given a raise. If you want better pay, you need to switch jobs. This is why millennials change jobs every couple years. If you start as a junior designer, the only way to become an intermediate designer is to get a job at a different company.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
I'm not sure where you live or work, but that's not how it works in most places. There is no ladder to climb. You will never be promoted or given a raise. If you want better pay, you need to switch jobs. This is why millennials change jobs every couple years. If you start as a junior designer, the only way to become an intermediate designer is to get a job at a different company.

Like you said. "Most places". Which means people are looking for the wrong jobs. Go to Waffle House or Publix or dead_smiley's cousin's plumbing business. And this is not "climbing the ladder" in terms of title advancement. This is looking for places that have a habit of taking people who are valuable and giving them chances.

And making lateral moves is a great way to trap you at a pay grade.

Anybody whose livelihood (business owner, franchisee, etc.) directly depends on the quality of people that work for them (i.e. not just needing a body to do a rote task) is going to need someone who actually cares about the fruits of their labor to the customer instead of to their bank account. And, short of that, many are desperate enough for people who can piss in a cup once a month without marijuana in it.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Anybody whose livelihood (business owner, franchisee, etc.) directly depends on the quality of people that work for them (i.e. not just needing a body to do a rote task) is going to need someone who actually cares about the fruits of their labor (1) to the customer instead of to their bank account. And, short of that, many are desperate enough for people who can (2)piss in a cup once a month without marijuana in it.
Point (1) eliminates all career-driven and family-oriented men and women. People with families do things for the money because that's what a responsible adult does.
Point (2) eliminates all non-family people.
By having a low starting wage and drug monthly testing, it effectively excludes the entire US population. If you're doing drug testing on employees, you need to pay at least $30/h starting. The more absurd the employer's demands are, the higher the wage needs to be.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
People are weird. My neighbor on one side has a son in his early thirties who is living in his basement and playing video games. My neighbors on the other side have four sons who until recently were all living at home and not working. (One finally broke, found a job, and moved out of state.) Maybe sex isn't as good as it used to be . . .

lol this is close to my exact situation, except we're all attending college. Given the option between putting my entire stipend into the bank every year vs spending 80-90% of it on rent, food, utilities, I'll take the former. It's probably inevitable that the USA will end up like most of Europe where it's normal to have families living under the same roof for generations; the world is too populated now.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
I find it odd that a country founded on the notion that the purpose of government is to promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in fact a country full of economic slaves. I wonder what happened to our vaunted, 'it is the right of the people to change all that'. If a job is required to lead a normal life, then it is the duty of the government to insure full employment for all who wish for that. Why do we not for example tear down our haphazardly grown cities and rebuild them based on a full range of scientific principles?
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Point (1) eliminates all career-driven and family-oriented men and women. People with families do things for the money because that's what a responsible adult does.
Point (2) eliminates all non-family people.
By having a low starting wage and drug monthly testing, it effectively excludes the entire US population. If you're doing drug testing on employees, you need to pay at least $30/h starting. The more absurd the employer's demands are, the higher the wage needs to be.

Our labor problem can be summed by 2 realizations:
1. Employers insufficiently seek to understand and address the needs and values of the employee
2. Employees insufficiently seek to understand and address the needs and values of the employer

If you endeavor to explore realization #2 instead of assuming it invalidates realization #1, I suspect your views on this subject will change dramatically.

Our culture equates power to narcissim and threat and lack of caring and wealth. Honestly, who wants an employee that automatically views you as someone who cares about themselves only and has the resources to pay you well but instead hoards them?
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
I find it odd that a country founded on the notion that the purpose of government is to promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in fact a country full of economic slaves. I wonder what happened to our vaunted, 'it is the right of the people to change all that'. If a job is required to lead a normal life, then it is the duty of the government to insure full employment for all who wish for that. Why do we not for example tear down our haphazardly grown cities and rebuild them based on a full range of scientific principles?

Move to Venezuela.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
I find it odd that a country founded on the notion that the purpose of government is to promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in fact a country full of economic slaves. I wonder what happened to our vaunted, 'it is the right of the people to change all that'. If a job is required to lead a normal life, then it is the duty of the government to insure full employment for all who wish for that. Why do we not for example tear down our haphazardly grown cities and rebuild them based on a full range of scientific principles?

Most people aren't economic slaves, they're willing participants so that they may earn a little more $$$$$ for the purpose of consumption. Addicts might be a better way of putting it. Curious how you propose to guarantee full employment for every single person wanting it, or how you even define "full employment" (minimum wage at 40 hrs/wk? good luck getting people to take that).
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
Most people aren't economic slaves, they're willing participants so that they may earn a little more $$$$$ for the purpose of consumption. Addicts might be a better way of putting it. Curious how you propose to guarantee full employment for every single person wanting it, or how you even define "full employment" (minimum wage at 40 hrs/wk? good luck getting people to take that).
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. We can make that job one. You do know, don't you, what it is like in heaven?
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Amend that, it has declined slightly. You were correct. The productivity of the land has exploded in response to the warming climate brought about by the man injecting carbon into the atmosphere. My original chart showed the MASSIVE and INCREDIBLE rise in productivity. I interpreted incorrectly and inferred that there had been a massive decline in farmland. There has been a measureable decline in farmland but it probably does not rise to the level of "massive".



I dunno... and whats the obesity rate done since 1949.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
1. Employers insufficiently seek to understand and address the needs and values of the employee
2. Employees insufficiently seek to understand and address the needs and values of the employer

If you endeavor to explore realization #2 instead of assuming it invalidates realization #1, I suspect your views on this subject will change dramatically.
It's not our job to care. We are hired to do a task and get paid for it. Anything outside of doing a task or getting compensation for said task can only lead to lower morale and higher turnover.
If an employer does drug testing of any kind, it's assumed they have zero interest in running a profitable business. I worked at a paint store where the new, younger manager (son of the owner) thought it would be a good idea to get people to stop smoking cigarettes, so he didn't allow the employees to smoke anywhere on the company property, and he was a dick about employees walking off the property to smoke. Within 6 months, half of our senior people were gone. We lost the color matching guy, we lost the warehouse manager, and we lost 2 of the forklift operators. I started doing some of the forklift stuff, but I was definitely slower than the people who had more than a decade of experience operating a lift. I ended up quitting that job because the manager is one of those people who gets angry then vents at people, and I'm not going to be yelled at for a $10/h part time job. That was a perfect, textbook example of how not to run a business.

I also had a job as a sign girl at a construction site. If they tested construction people for cocaine, at least half of the concrete guys would be fired. That's not an exaggeration.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
It's not our job to care. We are hired to do a task and get paid for it. Anything outside of doing a task or getting compensation for said task can only lead to lower morale and higher turnover.

If you want to be trapped in hell for the rest of your life, by all means continue. Just quit whining about it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
If you want to be trapped in hell for the rest of your life, by all means continue. Just quit whining about it.
None of my business really, but what was that all about? What I heard was a person stating the reality she believes she lived through. She quit the place she spoke of so how does that equal living in hell for the rest of your life. My personal feeling is that you are angry that people don't have an attitude you believe would save them from despair and that they reject what you see as hope. Would that make your hope any less hopeful if it is hopeful in fact? Wouldn't real hope be impervious to challenge? Do I misunderstand?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I have a degree in chemistry and can confirm this. $13/h was pretty typical for college level lab work and knowledge of how to operate GC-MS machines that cost more than a house. I had to switch careers because the first one was such a disaster. I still communicate with some of my chemistry class mates, and every single one of them has left that field. There's simply no demand for anything technical. Chemists and physicists are some of the most well rounded individuals you will ever meet, but there's no demand for any kind of skilled labor. You'll get paid more to deliver furniture than you will with most STEM degrees.

We do seem to be reaching a point where there's not enough work to do. In the engineering office, at least 50% of our time is down time. An underground tunnel system for a city with 250k residents can be done by 5 guys with computers. We would love to actually do 40 hours of design and CAD work, but there's no demand for it. What the hell are we supposed to do with thousands of new engineers graduating every year? There's no work for them.
My grandson/son - I adopted him - received his degree in biochemistry/chemistry from UCSD and was faced with a dilemma. Should he go on to get his PhD or go about finding work in his field. I gave him my opinion which was to do research into the companies in the area who are into the latest technology and apply there first. Then go about getting his MBA and if he's not into academics (teaching) do the PhD later. He was a manager at Game Stop during his studies which provided him with valuable experience applicable to any environment and to couple that with a MBA would provide him with his greatest talent aside from his expertise in Chemistry stuff. He chose a company that develops testing devices for various diseases and was hired right away and makes more $ than he expected while he does his MBA studies at night. At 25 years old he's quite the go getter. It seems that the folks running the company are all oriented toward Chemical engineering and Bio/Chemistry but not too heavy into the more mundane aspects of business like organizing stuff and he fits right in. IOW, the fact he went to UCSD and graduated in their field with honors got him into the door and his management skills advanced him up the ladder.
So... I'd say you should find a company that is going somewhere and needs your talents. I read you worked at a paint store and construction and other places that are foreign to your Chemistry expertise. You must enjoy Chemistry so try to stay in that general field. Kyle spent 5 years getting his degree and although he worked while doing that he was not about to stay with Game Stop regardless of offers from them to stay. He'll get his MBA and will get his PhD in time but in the meantime he is happy as a rat in a cheese factory with his future planned and all in his hands.
I hope you find your objective too!
 
Last edited:
Reactions: trenchfoot

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
If you want to be trapped in hell for the rest of your life, by all means continue. Just quit whining about it.
Wow! That seems quite the harsh response to the linked comment. And, not actually very responsive. But that is an opinion and I'd assume you've some underlying rationalization not apparent so I'll leave it there.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. We can make that job one. You do know, don't you, what it is like in heaven?
Now that sounds just like what Brother Timothy would say to which I'd say that I know what its like here in hell so heaven must be the opposite. Tim was a highly educated (PhD) in brain stuff and quoted all sorts of stuff that controlled what we thought and how we acted. Jungian stuff. Well... I've but one brain and everything I've ever inculcated into that brain remains. It is all about how I assemble all that data into information that counts. Like your theory on the size of the Amawhatever and how it controls differently the same data others of lesser Amawhatever encounter.
Hamburger sees the same data as you do but seems to arrive at a different opinion. I guess there must be a gazillion factors that are influences on the data all residing in the brain but in different amounts among the population. The question might be something like, what can one expect other than differences when two or more people observe the same thing.
When confronted with a math problem I don't simply work to solve it but, rather, solve and apply it... Seems to be the reasonable thing to do but others might be happy with arriving at the solution to the math... I figure if it is without application its not worth the effort. hehehehe
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
Now that sounds just like what Brother Timothy would say to which I'd say that I know what its like here in hell so heaven must be the opposite. Tim was a highly educated (PhD) in brain stuff and quoted all sorts of stuff that controlled what we thought and how we acted. Jungian stuff. Well... I've but one brain and everything I've ever inculcated into that brain remains. It is all about how I assemble all that data into information that counts. Like your theory on the size of the Amawhatever and how it controls differently the same data others of lesser Amawhatever encounter.
Hamburger sees the same data as you do but seems to arrive at a different opinion. I guess there must be a gazillion factors that are influences on the data all residing in the brain but in different amounts among the population. The question might be something like, what can one expect other than differences when two or more people observe the same thing.
When confronted with a math problem I don't simply work to solve it but, rather, solve and apply it... Seems to be the reasonable thing to do but others might be happy with arriving at the solution to the math... I figure if it is without application its not worth the effort. hehehehe
Perhaps that's my problem. I lack ambition so everything seems worthless to me. Of course having no ambition requires a lot of work. I do vow to save all sentient beings, but vows can vary from deadly aim to keeping your fingers crossed.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
My grandson/son - I adopted him - received his degree in biochemistry/chemistry from UCSD and was faced with a dilemma. Should he go on to get his PhD or go about finding work in his field. I gave him my opinion which was to do research into the companies in the area who are into the latest technology and apply there first. Then go about getting his MBA and if he's not into academics (teaching) do the PhD later. He was a manager at Game Stop during his studies which provided him with valuable experience applicable to any environment and to couple that with a MBA would provide him with his greatest talent aside from his expertise in Chemistry stuff. He chose a company that develops testing devices for various diseases and was hired right away and makes more $ than he expected while he does his MBA studies at night. At 25 years old he's quite the go getter. It seems that the folks running the company are all oriented toward Chemical engineering and Bio/Chemistry but not too heavy into the more mundane aspects of business like organizing stuff and he fits right in. IOW, the fact he went to UCSD and graduated in their field with honors got him into the door and his management skills advanced him up the ladder.
So... I'd say you should find a company that is going somewhere and needs your talents. I read you worked at a paint store and construction and other places that are foreign to your Chemistry expertise. You must enjoy Chemistry so try to stay in that general field. Kyle spent 5 years getting his degree and although he worked while doing that he was not about to stay with Game Stop regardless of offers from them to stay. He'll get his MBA and will get his PhD in time but in the meantime he is happy as a rat in a cheese factory with his future planned and all in his hands.
I hope you find your objective too!

My daughter recently received her Masters (Summa Cum Laude) in Forensics with a minor in Organic Chem. She's presently employed in research and I will pass on to her your advice.

Thanks much. :thumbs up:
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
My daughter recently received her Masters (Summa Cum Laude) in Forensics with a minor in Organic Chem. She's presently employed in research and I will pass on to her your advice.

Thanks much. :thumbs up:
She might be happy as a clam doing what she's doing and has no interest in other stuff. I think we are unique in what we will enjoy doing. I know for me it was back a long time ago. While in grad school I carried the US Mail and although I was fully motivated to get the final degree and the expertise that implies the carrying of the mail never left my thinking. Even today some 46 years later I wish I had never left the Post Office. Nothing ever gave me the same feeling ... well maybe teaching at the University might have but not as adjunct. Folks often say that as a mail man I would make a fraction of what I earned in my field but ya know... money never entered or altered my thinking. Still doesn't! I guess the question is; why does the Artist choose to paint and live like a peasant when she could pursue a field in which she was educated in. I'd hope for everyone the notion that happy is as happy does.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
It's not our job to care. We are hired to do a task and get paid for it. Anything outside of doing a task or getting compensation for said task can only lead to lower morale and higher turnover.
If an employer does drug testing of any kind, it's assumed they have zero interest in running a profitable business.

I'm sorry, what? If you don't enjoy what you do, make a plan to get yourself a job which you do enjoy and execute it. Just to make sure I understand you, you're saying that in general employers who drug test don't want to be profitable? What's your basis for that?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I'm sorry, what? If you don't enjoy what you do, make a plan to get yourself a job which you do enjoy and execute it. Just to make sure I understand you, you're saying that in general employers who drug test don't want to be profitable? What's your basis for that?

It occurs to me that in California we have this medical use of Marijuana being legal. Now then... My daughter has many issues which her pain doctor Rx'd Oxycodone to help with the pain in the past... Now a days she has her medical MJ certificate and purchases this certain type of MJ that contains high levels of CDB or like that and it works. She don't take the Rx stuff anymore but every twice in awhile a Tylenol is needed. If she could work and be drug tested she'd fail but fail using a very legal substance. There is something wrong with that.

I never ordered drug testing in companies I had that authority to do. Either a person could do the job or not. That was good enough for me. Of course there are places that ought to insure 'clean' folks are working there like a hospital and stuff but a construction site.... I'm not too sure it is needed. I accept it is problematic to have a 'doper' wielding a saw or something or climbing on a roof but if the environment is irrelevant then so should the dope test.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
She might be happy as a clam doing what she's doing and has no interest in other stuff. I think we are unique in what we will enjoy doing. I know for me it was back a long time ago. While in grad school I carried the US Mail and although I was fully motivated to get the final degree and the expertise that implies the carrying of the mail never left my thinking. Even today some 46 years later I wish I had never left the Post Office. Nothing ever gave me the same feeling ... well maybe teaching at the University might have but not as adjunct. Folks often say that as a mail man I would make a fraction of what I earned in my field but ya know... money never entered or altered my thinking. Still doesn't! I guess the question is; why does the Artist choose to paint and live like a peasant when she could pursue a field in which she was educated in. I'd hope for everyone the notion that happy is as happy does.

As a sibling with three brothers, I was somehow chosen by my parents, uncles and aunts to be "the pick of the litter" whereby i would go far in life and be some kind of role model or other. That being said, I chose toolmaking as a career choice even though I knew I'd do OK if I stuck it out in college and went for a post grad degree. To complement that occupation, I work out of my home and enjoy doing part-time jobs repairing 'puters and doing event and small wedding photography, although it doesn't help things that I'm right in the middle of doing a complete restoration on a Corvette that I've owned since 1978. <===That right there is an example of stupid is as stupid does.

I've been quite happy being happy in the career of my choice and have absolutely no regrets. I've made contributions to my field of expertise that I'm modestly proud of but most of all, I've been able to help others by passing on to them the experience I gained from being in a job I like for the past 30 some odd years both in the military and in the private sector. That gives me a lot of satisfaction.

Classmates of mine who became doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. (of whom I do not mean to disparage at all)......well, some of them got married to their jobs and didn't seem all that happy to me whenever we got together for mini-reunions and such. Stress was what most of them complained about. That and that ever looming challenge of outdoing themselves and often failing in that regard.

I feel rather fortunate that I found my niche sooner than later. And like you, I realize that all the riches in the world does not compare with finding that certain balance point where life can be something that's simultaneously enjoyable and productive.

So yes, I completely agree with you that "happy is as happy does".
 
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