According to the affidavit, Hamzeh met with two undercover FBI agents on Monday. They presented him with two automatic machine guns and a silencer. He paid for the weapons and silencer in cash and put them in the trunk of his car. The agents then arrested him and recovered the guns and silencer.
If the guy was just looking to arm up. And had a mag handy he could ruined those two guys day. And be loose with the "machine" guns.
Makes me wonder if the FBI really gave him working firearms....
.
For everyone going on and on about the guns themselves, did you fucking read the article?
You cant suppress a machine gun, or silence it.
So they either had full auto submachine guns or AR's and a suppressor, or the media has completely fucked up the facts again. The latter is more likely.
well, go watch the Newburgh Sting and get back to me. Seriously: don't respond until you do.
It's even dumber not to realize that when it comes to acts of mass murder and terrorism, NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ON THE PLANET of any reputation is actually going to wait until *ACTUAL* mass murder and acts of terrorism are actually carried out, before arresting anyone.They usually don't. They certainly don't provide them functioning explosives, in the cases where the FBI provides the plot, the "terrorist cell," the money, and the weapons, they are never functioning.
Just another part of the circus show. An honest person would ask themselves: "How do you judge a person's intent if they never commit the act?" Well, the answer is that you can't. Tons and tons of people intend all sorts of things, and yet never act out on them for various reasons. Another thing some of you don't want to admit: you can't honestly be convicted for a crime that has not been committed. This should actually scare the piss out of all of you, but so many of you are blinded.
Stupid people convince themselves that justice is done here simply because they need to believe that the law is doing its job. Wise people understand that such terrorist acts are not, in any way, prevented by such FBI sting operations. It's impossible. Even wiser people understand that prosecution witnesses that provide the reasoning and means for the accused to commit acts, and further means (weapons) that do not function, and therefore could never commit the act, is a gross miscarriage of justice.
Believe me--I want to see terrorists stopped in the act as much as the next guy, but I know this is not what is happening because I'm not an idiot that eats up this shit drooling happily as if I should be satisfied that USA is number one! when I see these stories.
For everyone going on and on about the guns themselves, did you fucking read the article?
Federal agents said that on Jan. 19 and into the early morning of Jan. 20, Hamzeh discussed his plans to attack the temple with the informants, telling them they needed two more machine guns the group apparently already had one and silencers. They planned to station one person at the temple's entrance while the other two went through the building, killing everyone they saw. They then planned to walk away from the scene as if nothing had happened.
It's even dumber not to realize that when it comes to acts of mass murder and terrorism, NO LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ON THE PLANET of any reputation is actually going to wait until *ACTUAL* mass murder and acts of terrorism are actually carried out, before arresting anyone.
That IS the tricky thing about foiling would-be terrorists and terrorism plots- most times you're not going to just get handed a neat plot with a bow on top- you're going to either miss the boat and be picking up a lot of peices (9/11, Boston Bombers) or you're going to be arresting people before they're able to carry things out- mostly because you're on to them for talking a lot of shit about *wanting* to do something. It's not a crime to just wait around until someone has the means to do for real.
My sympathy cup does not run over for anyone supposedly 'entrapped' by mass-murder plots, because once again, only a *TRULY* mindless person thinks that just anyone would ever participate in such things.
Do I think the FBI is keeping everyone safe from terrorism by conducting stings? No.
Do I feel endless sympathy for anyone so-called 'entrapped' by the FBI for plotting mass murder? FUCK no. Most normal people are never going to find themselves in any such situation "Hey, this could be a great idea! I'll just murder a few dozen innocents because this guy with a suitcase full of money is talking about it..."
How do your liberal views of tolerance feel about this planned shooting?
When the tolerant meet the intolerant, what happens?
First: you really have no clue what any of us are talking about
Second: you're a bleeding pro-isreali anti-muslim super godloving policy head with questionable years of education..
"Years"? Ok...
Let no one ever accuse you of being uncharitable.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Hezbollah plan to blow up a New York City bridge was an FBI/BATFE concoction. However, in general you are correct, it's mostly a put-and-take fishery. I don't really have a problem with that - they do the exact same thing on child pornography - but with all the latitude they have received in intercepting Americans' communications, taking down a string of terrorist cells that you yourself built up and armed isn't all that impressive.Meh. I'd like proof that it was a real plan under action and not the typical FBI/Homeland investigation that is nothing more than a case of entrapment.
1 plant operative in mosque
2 cozy up to some newbies in the mosque
3 exploit outsider status, income status, personal needs
4 facilitate arms and weapons to newbie, encourage them to join your "underground jihadi group"
5 arrest them for taking the guns that you gave them.
.....every single FBI "terrorist cell thwarted!" to date. Every one.
no stupid, the film isn't 8 minutes long.You lied.
you did not watch the documentary.
YOU'RE the one I see in most threads making everything about scary muslims, and making it racial. I personally don't care if the FBI is entrapping white buddists, red christians, orange jews or yellow athiests in plots to commit mass murder. I have very little sympathy for anyone that doesn't go STRAIGHT to an authority the minute someone in their midst is seriously trying to recruit others or themselves in mass murder plots.And, in general, you aren't allowing yourself to think about the reality of what these cases mean. It is easy for the willfully naive to be blinded by their passions. In this case: TERROR BAD! MUSLIM SCARY AND BAD!
You lied.
you did not watch the documentary.
God I just Love all the pro-Islamic voices that are idiotically speaking out against what they perceive to be the FBI setting up this poor Islamic person.......
oh, boo hoo! Did you ever think for one minute that NOT everything the FBI does is to create these monsters who want to do harm to others?
I find it ludicrous to believe that all Islamic people are peace loving and have no ill thoughts towards America!!
well, go watch the Newburgh Sting and get back to me. Seriously: don't respond until you do.
desperate men are not the same as true believer typesHussain told Cromitie JEM would pay the men $250,000 (far above the normal amount informants are authorized to offer sting targets) to carry out a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. He also promised Cromitie a BMW and a barber shop. But for months Cromitie did nothing. He did not recruit other men (which would prove a "conspiracy") and discontinued contact with the informant. In April 2009, after losing his $14,000 a year job at Walmart, Cromitie called his Pakistani friend with the cash.
but this one looks different, and he actually states he wants to kill at least 30 masons.The Newburgh Four self-identified as Muslim converts, but Cromitie was the only one who attended the local mosque, and he did so only a few times. Still, the government labeled them religious extremists, and charging documents made sure to list their Arabic aliases. The Newburgh Sting asserts neither this "plot" nor any other post-9/11 terrorism plot has been hatched inside a U.S. mosque.
Through their attorneys, the Newburgh Four contend they went through the motions with Hussain only to con him for his promised cash. Cromitie is heard on the undercover tapes stressing a desire to avoid loss of life in their attacks on Jewish and military property. The temple bombs were placed at night when no one was around.
MILWAUKEE -- A Milwaukee man wanted to storm a Masonic temple with a machine-gun and kill at least 30 people in an attack he hoped would show "nobody can play with Muslims" and spark more mass shootings in the United States, federal agents said Tuesday after the man's arrest.
Federal prosecutors charged 23-year-old Samy Mohamed Hamzeh on Tuesday with unlawfully possessing a machine-gun and receiving and possessing firearms not registered to him.
A spokesman for the U.S. attorney, Dean Puschnig, didn't immediately respond to a question asking why charges were limited to gun possession. Hamzeh's attorney, federal defender Ronnie Murray, didn't immediately return email and voicemail messages left after business hours.
According to an FBI affidavit, agents were tipped off in September that Hamzeh planned to travel to Israel in October to attack Israeli soldiers and citizens in the West Bank. He abandoned those plans due to "family, financial and logistic reasons," the affidavit said, but refocused his efforts on a domestic attack.
Hamzeh discussed his plans extensively with two FBI informants. The affidavit said the FBI started recording his conversations with the informants in October.
Hamzeh and the two informants travelled to a gun range on Jan. 19 and practiced with a pistol. Afterward they took a tour of a Masonic temple in Milwaukee. The affidavit does not name the temple and Puschnig declined to identify it.
Masons are members of a fraternal organization that carries out a variety of activities including charity work. Wisconsin has nearly 11,000 Masons in 180 lodges, according to Frank Struble, grand master of Free and Accepted Masons in Wisconsin. The organization is not a religion.
Struble said the allegations were "hard to hear." He said he knew which Masonic centre had been targeted but declined to identify it.
"Masons are a part of an organization that helped build this country," Struble said. "I can understand from that standpoint where someone who is against this country would target us."
The owner of a downtown Milwaukee gym said she recently fired Hamzeh after hiring him as a trainer just a few weeks ago.
Delia Luna of 9Round Kickbox Fitness described Hamzeh as "very intense, very militant" as a trainer and said he didn't fit the atmosphere she wanted to create.
"He didn't mix well," Luna said.
Federal agents said that on Jan. 19 and into the early morning of Jan. 20, Hamzeh discussed his plans to attack the temple with the informants, telling them they needed two more machine-guns -- the group apparently already had one -- and silencers. They planned to station one person at the temple's entrance while the other two went through the building, killing everyone they saw. They then planned to walk away from the scene as if nothing had happened.
"I am telling you, if this hit is executed, it will be known all over the world ... all the Mujahedeen will be talking and they will be proud of us," Hamzeh said, according to the affidavit. "Such operations will increase in America, when they hear about it. The people will be scared and the operations will increase. ... This way we will be igniting it. I mean we are marching at the front of the war."
Hamzeh added that he hoped to kill 30 people, "because these 30 will terrify the world. The (expletive) will know that nobody can play with Muslims."
He added, "We are here defending Islam, young people together join to defend Islam, that's it, that is what our intention is."
According to the affidavit, Hamzeh met with two undercover FBI agents on Monday. They presented him with two automatic machine-guns and a silencer. He paid for the weapons and silencer in cash and put them in the trunk of his car. The agents then arrested him and recovered the guns and silencer.
What? He is a criminal and will hopefully see plenty of jail time. No ideology needed.
Kind of depends on the machine gun and how badly you want to suppress it. In the 80s I worked for a survivalist who designed weapons, including silencers and fully automatic rifles. (He had Class 3 licenses out the ass and owned over a thousand shoulder arms, including carbines and submachineguns.) I've seen him fire a full mag of supersonic 5.56mm AP from a carbine of his own design and manufacture, equipped with a suppressor of his own design and manufacture, on full auto. Two or three bursts if I remember correctly, but well under half a minute to empty the mag. It was quiet enough that you didn't need hearing protection and could clearly hear the clacking of the action even at the end of the burst. Pretty damned impressive, and the suppressor wasn't even all that big as suppressors go. I doubt it would do much after a hundred rounds cyclic, but for ten round bursts it was very impressive indeed.You cant suppress a machine gun, or silence it.
So they either had full auto submachine guns or AR's and a suppressor, or the media has completely fucked up the facts again. The latter is more likely.
Dude, liberal views of tolerance do not necessarily condone Islamic terrorism, so there is no discrepancy. Some liberals who are more progressive are overly aggressive about denying that Islam has anything to do with Islamic terrorism, but that's a subset. Certainly liberals can be too tolerant - as can we conservatives of other things - but it's not a requirement, and in general, tolerance is a good thing.How do your liberal views of tolerance feel about this planned shooting?
When the tolerant meet the intolerant, what happens?
Dude, liberal views of tolerance do not necessarily condone Islamic terrorism, so there is no discrepancy.
Liberal views that everyone should be welcomed into the nation
Liberal views that everyone should be welcomed into the nation