stunning new archeological evidence on Jesus' life

[thehstrybean]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: batchusa
This article explains a lot of the actual "evidence":

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/

I'm gonna have to say that this Jacobovici guy is not very credible if he still believes that the Golan/James ossuary is authentic and bases this new conclusion on that (even if only in part). The James ossuary has been scientifically declared a fake and Golan is currently on trial for forgery.

I mean, really, people... don't get your science and your history from the movies and the media. You have the leading scientific authority in that particular field, the former curator for anthropology and archeology at the Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem, on the record saying that this claim is bunk and that the claimant has (and I quote) "no credibility whatsoever," and you're still buying this... why? Surely not from the standpoint of science, that's for sure.

Actually, the Israeli Antiquities Authority has ruled the Ossuary is a fake, but never offered a report as to why. Amos Kloner, the leading archaeologist, never ruled that it was a fake, either. Lots of people realize that James and Jesus were really popular names, the only problem is that the context of the ossuary was destroyed when it was found on the antiquities market by looters...

"The Israeli Antiquities Authority has never offered any report explaining why it concluded the ossuary is a forgery. Therefore, a number of international experts refuse to agree that it is a forgery until the IAA allows scholars to review its findings. For example, Ed Keall, the Senior Curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, Near Eastern & Asian Civilizations Department, continues to argue for the ossuary?s authenticity, ?The ROM has always been open to questioning the ossuary's authenticity, but so far no definitive proof of forgery has yet been presented, in spite of the current claims being made." [1]

Meanwhile Biblical Archaeology Review also continued to defend the ossuary. In articles in the February 2005 issues, several experts in writing on stone argue that the James Ossuary is authentic and should be examined by specialists outside of Israel. Another article claims the cleaning of the James Ossuary before it was examined may have caused the problem with the patina."

I have that issue of BAR around here somewhere, and in it many leading archaeologist defend the ossuary.

 

[skace]

Woo!

Christ:0
Athiests:1

Yea!

 

[KoopaTroopa]

new article at time

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Triumph
Because the Catholic church believes that Jesus and Mary are the only two people to have ascended into heaven with their corporeal body, rather than just the spirit. At least that's how the story goes. Protestants and others don't believe in the divinity of Mary so they're probably indifferent to this aspect of the article claiming to have found her tomb.

Catholics do not believe that Mary is divine. Of course, that doesn't stop protestant ministers from teaching that as a way to make the Catholic Church look bad.

Well, I guess divine isn't the right word, but I can't think of a word describing the Catholic church's relationship with Mary, as opposed to the Protestant factions. I know the Catholics have a word for it, they make up words for everything.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I just find it interesting that the OP is already convinced this is true (based on title/sub).

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: KoopaTroopa
new article at time

Seems like they pretty much debunked the claims right there and quite easily too. I might still watch it just to see what they present, but I'm in the camp that this probably isn't the tomb of JC.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: bignateyk

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Perhaps this has already been covered and I missed it, but is there some reason for the idea that he wasn't resurrected, or is that just something they're adding in there? I don't see what his having a wife or a child would have to do with that.

Please let me know if this question was already raised.

I guess they're trying to say that since here is a body, he can't have been resurrected and ascended to heaven (the Ascension) in said body. That's my guess.

Why would a body disprove that? I always just assumed he was resurrected, then when he ascended, his body was left behind, and reburied. Why take the body along for the ride?

Resurrection is the reuniting of the body with the spirit, never again to be separated. So if his body were still here on Earth, it could not be with his spirit, thus he could not have been resurrected. Or at least not resurrected in the way most Christian view resurrection.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just find it interesting that the OP is already convinced this is true (based on title/sub).

perhaps your sarcasm meter is broken? that's how I read the title, anyway. maybe he is serious though.....

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Actually, the Israeli Antiquities Authority has ruled the Ossuary is a fake, but never offered a report as to why. Amos Kloner, the leading archaeologist, never ruled that it was a fake, either. Lots of people realize that James and Jesus were really popular names, the only problem is that the context of the ossuary was destroyed when it was found on the antiquities market by looters...

"The Israeli Antiquities Authority has never offered any report explaining why it concluded the ossuary is a forgery. Therefore, a number of international experts refuse to agree that it is a forgery until the IAA allows scholars to review its findings. For example, Ed Keall, the Senior Curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, Near Eastern & Asian Civilizations Department, continues to argue for the ossuary?s authenticity, ?The ROM has always been open to questioning the ossuary's authenticity, but so far no definitive proof of forgery has yet been presented, in spite of the current claims being made." [1]

Meanwhile Biblical Archaeology Review also continued to defend the ossuary. In articles in the February 2005 issues, several experts in writing on stone argue that the James Ossuary is authentic and should be examined by specialists outside of Israel. Another article claims the cleaning of the James Ossuary before it was examined may have caused the problem with the patina."

I have that issue of BAR around here somewhere, and in it many leading archaeologist defend the ossuary.

I was at U of Dayton in 2003 when the following announcement was sent out bragging about how one of our professors was instrumental in proving that it was a fraud:

DAYTON, Ohio ? The headlines cheered last October about the finding of an ancient burial box believed to have contained the bones of James, the brother of Jesus. University of Dayton engineering professor Daniel Eylon didn't believe it. He was one of a few people to come forward, saying the ossuary's inscription 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' was a fake.
Three months ago, the Israel Antiquities Authority agreed and officially declared the inscription to be a fake. Now, Eylon, who directs the graduate materials engineering program at UD, will speak about the box and his analysis of it at 7:30 p.m., Sunday, Oct. 26, in the Sears Recital Hall of the Jesse C. Philips Humanities Center on campus.
The meeting, which is free and open to the public, is sponsored by the Dayton Christian Jewish Dialogue.
Eylon was interviewed last December by the New York Times about the ossuary and later invited by the curator of the Royal Ontario Museum, where the box was on display, to inspect and investigate its authenticity.
His conclusion: the inscription had only a few original letters. He believes someone had carved much of it with a simple, modern-day tool in Hebrew script that was likely copied directly from inscriptions catalogued in a 1994 Israeli monograph of ossuaries.
In his presentation, Eylon will discuss the methods used in his investigation and the reasons for his conclusions. A question-and-answer session will follow.
The Dayton Christian Jewish Dialogue is an organization that gathers people of various faith traditions to use dialogue to replace prejudice with understanding. It has been meeting since 1972.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, I guess divine isn't the right word, but I can't think of a word describing the Catholic church's relationship with Mary, as opposed to the Protestant factions. I know the Catholics have a word for it, they make up words for everything.

Ah, nothing like coupling ignorance with an ad hominem. Nothing says 'love your enemy' like protestants' ignorant, bigoted hatred of Catholics. :thumbsup:

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, I guess divine isn't the right word, but I can't think of a word describing the Catholic church's relationship with Mary, as opposed to the Protestant factions. I know the Catholics have a word for it, they make up words for everything.

Ah, nothing like coupling ignorance with an ad hominem. Nothing says 'love your enemy' like protestants' ignorant, bigoted hatred of Catholics. :thumbsup:

Ah now aren't you making Jesus proud

 

[randay]

religious people smell bad. they dont shower because if they do they think theyll go to hell.

 

[jhbball]

Even if none of this stuff is true, it's still very interesting to read about

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Triumph
Well, I guess divine isn't the right word, but I can't think of a word describing the Catholic church's relationship with Mary, as opposed to the Protestant factions. I know the Catholics have a word for it, they make up words for everything.

Ah, nothing like coupling ignorance with an ad hominem. Nothing says 'love your enemy' like protestants' ignorant, bigoted hatred of Catholics. :thumbsup:

Huh?

 

[KoolAidKid]

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't know why the public lets Hollywood re-write history for them. Good drama maybe, but never accurate.
Take Tombstone, for example. Great movie. But not even remotely accurate.
Or Oliver Stone's JFK. What a joke! Even the portrayal of Garrison was inaccurate, and that particular conspiracy theory (there are many about JFK, but Garrison's particular theory) was thoroughly discredited long before the movie even came out.
And so on... countless fabrications of history passed off as the real thing.
And yet more people get their history from Hollywood movies than from history books. It's becoming a national disgrace.

[/quote]

This is true not only in regards to history but also in science. IMO, scientists themselves are partly to blame, as they rarely make the effort to pass their results on to the general population in a form that is easily digested. They leave this to journalists & others who are rarely up to the task. The public is always ready to eat it up, though. Examples: 'State of Fear' by Michael Crichton, 'An Inconvenient Truth' by Al Gore.



People take their knowledge in the most digestible format.

 

[imported_inspire]

I don't have much to add to all this, but there is one thing I find surprising - and that's how much some folks take logic to be infallible and, at the same time, criticize the religious for taking their beliefs to be infallible.

Undoubtedly, logic is a very basic system - like, say mathmetics. It relies mostly on deductive reasoning and is very methodical. Like mathematics, it also relies on axioms. One thing I've learned in my mathematics classes (not arithmetic, which is for engineers), is that you can't say anything unless you start somewhere - axioms are necessary to develop theorems and truths. Even logic relies on axioms, which we must take on a bit faith.

Of course, you can argue that faith can be justified and unjustified - claiming the moon is made of cheese in light of samples collected from the moon proving otherwise takes a very large amount of faith, whereas trusting the axioms that underlie logic, geometry, or topology may take less.

The point I'm trying to make is that no matter what you believe, you have some faith in something. You can't prove logic is true, you take it as an axiom. So before you fire off and start saying that faith is a bad thing, remember that.

 

[OutHouse]

George Norry the host of Coast to Coast was all over this last night. the two guys he had on totally flamed Cameron and this "find". it was quite fun to listen to, too bad Cameron wasnt on to defend himself.

 

[hollowman]

Does anyone know where in NYC and when they will display the coffins for publics?(or is it only for the press conference?) I wonder if I should go to NYC to check it out myself.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Accipiter22
Old news. Those were extremely common names. They also thought they found the ossuary of James, brother of Jesus, but it was another james, the brother of another Jesus. Sounds like another gnostic thing anyway.

IIRC, the ossuary was proven to be a fraud.

Well Many in the Anti-Christian and even the Catholic church have an agenda that wants it to be a fake. My old pastor Ben Witherington wrote a book on it and one of it's strongest supporters. Yet I'm not convinced with his deductions either.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: KoolAidKid

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't know why the public lets Hollywood re-write history for them. Good drama maybe, but never accurate.
Take Tombstone, for example. Great movie. But not even remotely accurate.
Or Oliver Stone's JFK. What a joke! Even the portrayal of Garrison was inaccurate, and that particular conspiracy theory (there are many about JFK, but Garrison's particular theory) was thoroughly discredited long before the movie even came out.
And so on... countless fabrications of history passed off as the real thing.
And yet more people get their history from Hollywood movies than from history books. It's becoming a national disgrace.

This is true not only in regards to history but also in science. IMO, scientists themselves are partly to blame, as they rarely make the effort to pass their results on to the general population in a form that is easily digested. They leave this to journalists & others who are rarely up to the task. The public is always ready to eat it up, though. Examples: 'State of Fear' by Michael Crichton, 'An Inconvenient Truth' by Al Gore.



People take their knowledge in the most digestible format.

Truer than words can say...

 

[Coldkilla]

*sigh* Pethetic how you Christians will NEVER listen to the world. If they found a picture if Jesus nailed onto the coffin with the engraved lettering: "Jesus" yall would still never believe it. There's a word for you people.. and I can't think of it.

Don't be so "This way is the ONLY way", I cannot believe some of you people. Jeeze, they found some new evidence about Jesus, and now yall shoot that to hell. (What if your wrong? Woops, there goes 1000s of years of tradition from one big woopsie, except yall accept it as truth, even if it was fake, you'd refuse to believe it).

I suppose finding those old old skelitons that prove evolution were a better find...

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
*sigh* Pethetic how you Christians will NEVER listen to the world. If they found a picture if Jesus nailed onto the coffin with the engraved lettering: "Jesus" yall would still never believe it. There's a word for you people.. and I can't think of it.

Don't be so "This way is the ONLY way", I cannot believe some of you people. Jeeze, they found some new evidence about Jesus, and now yall shoot that to hell. (What if your wrong? Woops, there goes 1000s of years of tradition from one big woopsie, except yall accept it as truth, even if it was fake, you'd refuse to believe it).

I suppose finding those old old skelitons that prove evolution were a better find...

Please tell me that was just a poor attempt at sarcasm...

 

[eojinlim]

Why don't they try and disprove other religions like Islam? I'm sure James Cameron would love to be pelted by rock throwing Jihadists.

 

[eojinlim]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Coldkilla
*sigh* Pethetic how you Christians will NEVER listen to the world. If they found a picture if Jesus nailed onto the coffin with the engraved lettering: "Jesus" yall would still never believe it. There's a word for you people.. and I can't think of it.

Don't be so "This way is the ONLY way", I cannot believe some of you people. Jeeze, they found some new evidence about Jesus, and now yall shoot that to hell. (What if your wrong? Woops, there goes 1000s of years of tradition from one big woopsie, except yall accept it as truth, even if it was fake, you'd refuse to believe it).

I suppose finding those old old skelitons that prove evolution were a better find...

Please tell me that was just a poor attempt at sarcasm...

I'm assuming that comment of evolution and "skelitons" was directed towards Christians who still believe the world is only 20000 years old or something...

 

[RedBeard]

James Cameron's next film: "The origin of Jesus"
James goes south of the border to find the origin of those called jesus....