Sub-Prime Meltdown - FoxNews blames Clinton

[Napalm]

I was quite surprised to learn today during a FoxNews broadcast that it was actually Bill Clinton's administration that signed into law the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This bill effectively reversed the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 which was designed during the depression to regulate banks and prevent market instability. Most agree that the that the 1999 bill paved the way for the current Sub-Prime fiasco and $700,000,000,000 tax-payer funded bailout.

Clinton?? Why, I wondered, is McCain's campaign not all over this? The people should know that it is not "Bush's failed economic policies", but Clintons's failed economic policies that have created this meltdown!!!

Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for the bill before he decided to abstain on an amended version because of provisions that were added to bring Dems on board. To be fair, Biden voted against the bill until this language was added - then he was for it. But most interestingly, it seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

First off - it is pathetic that FoxNews doesn't have the balls to give people the full story and secondly, instead of suggesting the firing of SEC's Cox if he was President, perhaps McCain should consider firing Gramm... The current economic mess has its roots right in the McCain campaign...

 

[sandorski]

It was also submitted for Vote just a couple days after Bush was chosen by the SC to be Presidet. So that was at the very end of Clintons term. I suppose Clinton could bear some of the blame, but suspect the Biill was introduced then with the idea that Clinton would not be as attentive as he was working on winding down his Presidency.

 

[SagaLore]

Thanks for the info. Yep, I wouldn't blame Clinton just because he signed it. This falls on the legislation.

 

[ProfJohn]

Let's not forget all the Clinton appointees are places like Freddie Mac.

Everyone in Washington deserves some blame.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Let's not forget all the Clinton appointees are places like Freddie Mac.

Everyone in Washington deserves some blame.

Everyone except the two people on the Democratic ticket.

 

[Napalm]

Yup - agree, lotsa blame to go about.

One interesting point to be made on the "blame-game" is that it is Bush who should come out of this fiasco squeaky-clean. He has inherited this crisis, but now has to shoulder the blame for the problem and, what could be worse, the cure.

Almost feel sorry for the poor fella...

 

[yllus]

Well, there is at one positive about repealing Glass-Steagall: It let regular banks act as the buyers of some of the firms going down in flames right now.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Napalm
I was quite surprised to learn today during a FoxNews broadcast that it was actually Bill Clinton's administration that signed into law the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This bill effectively reversed the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 which was designed during the depression to regulate banks and prevent market instability. Most agree that the that the 1999 bill paved the way for the current Sub-Prime fiasco and $700,000,000,000 tax-payer funded bailout.

Clinton?? Why, I wondered, is McCain's campaign not all over this? The people should know that it is not "Bush's failed economic policies", but Clintons's failed economic policies that have created this meltdown!!!

Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

First off - it is pathetic that FoxNews doesn't have the balls to give people the full story and secondly, instead of suggesting the firing of SEC's Cox if he was President, perhaps McCain should consider firing Gramm... The current economic mess has its roots right in the McCain campaign...

Here is a link for the MRR's:

8-21-2008 Campaign advisers helped create mess

The presidential campaigns went after each other?s economic advisers this week ? and they?re both right in claiming that the other camp deserves a share of the blame.

This summer, Democrats pushed through housing legislation that created stronger regulation and provided temporary authority for the Treasury to lend a financial hand to the government-chartered mortgage companies, if needed.

President Bush threatened to veto the legislation, but dropped his objection after a meeting with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. Six weeks later, the government seized control of the two companies and, soon after, developed a massive government intervention to buy up hundreds of billions in troubled assets throughout the marketplace.

======================================================

So while some of the de-regulation did in fact start under Clinton, the Republicans under Bush took advantage of the system to the point of the meltdown.

Democrats saw the train wreck coming and tried to head it off.

Bush and Paulson alos saw the wreck coming but it was too late.

End game blame lies squarley with the GOP that sank the ship the last 8 years.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: sandorski
It was also submitted for Vote just a couple days after Bush was chosen by the SC to be Presidet. So that was at the very end of Clintons term. I suppose Clinton could bear some of the blame, but suspect the Biill was introduced then with the idea that Clinton would not be as attentive as he was working on winding down his Presidency.

No, that was a completely different bill.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Napalm
Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

Which means his veto could have been upheld. Funny how Bush bears the responsibility of all the bills that he signs, eh?


I would like a single example of a bill that Bush signed in which he bears less 'blame' than either of 2 Democratic senators.

 

[Rike]

Originally posted by: Napalm
Yup - agree, lotsa blame to go about.

One interesting point to be made on the "blame-game" is that it is Bush who should come out of this fiasco squeaky-clean. He has inherited this crisis, but now has to shoulder the blame for the problem and, what could be worse, the cure.

Almost feel sorry for the poor fella...

First rule of leadership: Whatever happens, it's your fault.

Second rule of leader: If things go badly, blame someone else. If things go well, take credit.

 

[QED]

Don't forget about CRA-- legislation that meant well and had very admirable goals, but in the end contributed greatly to the mess we are in now. It was enacted in 1977 under Jimmy Carter, and expanded in 1995 under Bill Clinton.

In 2003, Bush tried to amend CRA by moving to strenghthen federal supervision of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae's activity, but his changes were voted down on party lines. Barney Frank said of the proposal: "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

 

[smashp]

Please People,

1. Lets not forget about Greenspan dropping Interest rates until money was Free

2. Lets not forget about Equity Lines of credit driving consumer spending after 9/11 and the tech bubble burst magically getting us out of what looked to be a really bad recession. Do your part to fight the evil terrorists and get to the mall and shop.

3. Lets not forget that they knew the house of cards was going to collapse and tried to privatise social security to drive additional capital into the markets.

4. Lets not forget about RAW GREED and our modern corporate culture of short term profit over long term stability.



Lets Forget about responsibility and pass our 11 trillion dollar bill onto the next generation

 

[HendrixFan]

The bill passed 90-8 in the Senate, so it was veto proof. Before the House and Senate compromised on the bill, it passed only 54-44 in the Senate, straight down party lines.

It was part of a broader omnibus bill, jam packed full of goodies for the Democrats, which is why it went from 54-44 to 90-8.

 

[smashp]

Anybody pointing Blame at Clinto needs to see what MAjority Leader Lott said about who deserves credit for this Bill

MAJORITY LEADER LOTT'S STATEMENT

"Mr. President, let me just take a moment at this time, if the Senator would allow me.

"When the history is written of this session of Congress, it will probably identify this piece of legislation as the single biggest achievement. I have heard this financial services modernization issue discussed for my entire career in the Congress, which is now up to 27 years. It has been tried by Republicans, by Democrats in the Congress, House and Senate, administrations of both parties. It never quite occurred.

"I think it is appropriate we commend all of those who have been involved in this process for bringing us to this moment. This legislation is going to pass overwhelmingly. It is going to bring us into the modern era of financial services. It is going to allow us to be more equally competitive around the world.

"I think we should properly note what has happened. If today's papers are any indication, we passed major trade legislation yesterday and it didn't even make the first section of one of the papers in this city; it wound up in the business section. It was hardly noted, the effort that was put into passing that major free trade legislation. I hope that will not be the case with this major legislation.

"So for all those involved--I won't begin at the top and go to the bottom--obviously Secretary Rubin was involved in earlier discussions; Alan Greenspan was involved; Secretary Summers has been involved. The administration did stay engaged when they could have said we are not going to talk anymore. Leaders in both the House and the Senate, the elected leadership, Democrats and Republicans on both sides of the aisle, on both sides of the Capitol worked to make this happen.

"Let me say for the record--I know, because I watched it very carefully and had some meetings which, I think, helped give it some momentum, some impetus--it would not be where it is today, it would not have been achieved, without the leadership of the senior Senator from Texas, Mr. Gramm. He has done a masterful job. Many people said: It won't happen. Many people said: He will kill it. I kept saying: No; you wait. He will make this happen through thick or thin. It will get done.

"It is being done. To take nothing away from all those involved--including the ranking member of the committee, Senator Sarbanes of Maryland, who was actively involved--I have to note, with a lot of appreciation and gratitude, the tremendous leadership of the Senator from Texas. I don't think he can probably ever replicate this effort again. So I think that at this time we should express our appreciation because it is a monumental achievement."

 

[Napalm]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Napalm
Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

Which means his veto could have been upheld. Funny how Bush bears the responsibility of all the bills that he signs, eh?


I would like a single example of a bill that Bush signed in which he bears less 'blame' than either of 2 Democratic senators.

Buddy - forget about Bush. Your concern should be that if your guy wins, he will select as his Treasury Secretary none other than Phil Gramm. Talk about setting the fox loose in the hen house...

 

[smashp]

Oh lets see what the Author of the Bill So Passionately thought

GRAMM CLOSING FLOOR STATEMENT ON ON GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT OF 1999

Mr. President, success is claimed by a thousand parents. And today there are a lot of people who can claim parenthood. I am very happy to have played a part in delivering the bill before the Senate today.

"I think it represents the American legislative process at its best. It has resulted more from an effort to reach a logical conclusion than to satisfy various special interest groups. In that way, it is not unique but it is different.

"But the question is not how proud we are of this bill today. The question is, How will it look 50 years from now when it has gone from infancy to maturity?

"Obviously, after setting out a dramatic change in public policy, it is fair to set out a test for determining its success. How will people judge whether we were successful in passing this bill today? My test is, What are we trying to do in the bill? Are we trying to benefit banks or insurance companies or securities companies, or are we trying to benefit consumers and workers?

"The test that I believe we should use--the test I will use, the test I hope people looking at this bill years in the future will use--is, Did it produce a greater diversity of products and services for American consumers? Were those products better? And did they sell at a lower price? I think if the answer to those three questions is yes, then this bill will have succeeded.

"The world changes, and we have to change with it. Abraham Lincoln used to tell the story about how Government had to change all outmoded laws because they did not fit anymore, much as it would be unreasonable to expect a man to wear the same clothes he wore as a boy; that there is a nature to things and to society, and as they change, Government has to change to recognize the new reality.

"I believe today we are changing financial services in America to reflect that we do have a new century coming and we have an opportunity to dominate that century the way America dominated the last century.

"Ultimately, the final judge of the bill is history. Ultimately, as you look at the bill, you have to ask yourself, Will people in the future be trying to repeal it, as we are here today trying to repeal--and hopefully repealing--Glass-Steagall? I think the answer will be no. I think it will be no because we are doing something very different from Glass-Steagall. Glass-Steagall, in the midst of the Great Depression, thought Government was the answer. In this period of economic growth and prosperity, we believe freedom is the answer.

"This is a deregulatory bill. I believe that is going to be the wave of the future. Although this bill will be changed many times, and changed dramatically as we expand freedom and opportunity, I do not believe it will be repealed. It sets the foundation for the future, and that will be the test.

"So I am proud to have been part of this. I am proud to have worked with everybody as part of the process. It has been interesting and Government at its best. I think one of the reasons we run for public office is to get a chance to do things such as this. I am glad to have had an opportunity to play a part and urge all of my colleagues to support this dramatic move into the future."




FAIL

Guess we found out government is the answer and the slavery that comes with it

 

[Napalm]

Originally posted by: smashp
Anybody pointing Blame at Clinto needs to see what MAjority Leader Lott said about who deserves credit for this Bill

MAJORITY LEADER LOTT'S STATEMENT

"Mr. President, let me just take a moment at this time, if the Senator would allow me.

"When the history is written of this session of Congress, it will probably identify this piece of legislation as the single biggest achievement. I have heard this financial services modernization issue discussed for my entire career in the Congress, which is now up to 27 years. It has been tried by Republicans, by Democrats in the Congress, House and Senate, administrations of both parties. It never quite occurred.

"I think it is appropriate we commend all of those who have been involved in this process for bringing us to this moment. This legislation is going to pass overwhelmingly. It is going to bring us into the modern era of financial services. It is going to allow us to be more equally competitive around the world.

"I think we should properly note what has happened. If today's papers are any indication, we passed major trade legislation yesterday and it didn't even make the first section of one of the papers in this city; it wound up in the business section. It was hardly noted, the effort that was put into passing that major free trade legislation. I hope that will not be the case with this major legislation.

"So for all those involved--I won't begin at the top and go to the bottom--obviously Secretary Rubin was involved in earlier discussions; Alan Greenspan was involved; Secretary Summers has been involved. The administration did stay engaged when they could have said we are not going to talk anymore. Leaders in both the House and the Senate, the elected leadership, Democrats and Republicans on both sides of the aisle, on both sides of the Capitol worked to make this happen.

"Let me say for the record--I know, because I watched it very carefully and had some meetings which, I think, helped give it some momentum, some impetus--it would not be where it is today, it would not have been achieved, without the leadership of the senior Senator from Texas, Mr. Gramm. He has done a masterful job. Many people said: It won't happen. Many people said: He will kill it. I kept saying: No; you wait. He will make this happen through thick or thin. It will get done.

"It is being done. To take nothing away from all those involved--including the ranking member of the committee, Senator Sarbanes of Maryland, who was actively involved--I have to note, with a lot of appreciation and gratitude, the tremendous leadership of the Senator from Texas. I don't think he can probably ever replicate this effort again. So I think that at this time we should express our appreciation because it is a monumental achievement."

wow - nice find.

 

[dawp]

Originally posted by: yllus
Well, there is at one positive about repealing Glass-Steagall: It let regular banks act as the buyers of some of the firms going down in flames right now.

I'm not so sure that's a good thing as it opens BofA and others to risk the general population should not bear. I think Glass-Steagall should be reinstated as it proved it's worth, I.E., after it was repealed, the current meltdown happened.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Napalm

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Napalm
Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

Which means his veto could have been upheld. Funny how Bush bears the responsibility of all the bills that he signs, eh?


I would like a single example of a bill that Bush signed in which he bears less 'blame' than either of 2 Democratic senators.

Buddy - forget about Bush. Your concern should be that if your guy wins, he will select as his Treasury Secretary none other than Phil Gramm. Talk about setting the fox loose in the hen house...

According to Mr Gramm

We are a "nation of whiners" and we are only in a "mental depression"

Lets See what other trinkets of fun this Asshat has brought us


Involvement in "Enron Loophole" Legislation
Gramm was one of five co-sponsors of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. One provision of the bill was referred to as the "Enron loophole" because the House Agriculture Committee drafted it and it was later applied to Enron. Some critics blame the provision for permitting the Enron scandal to occur. At the time, Gramm's wife was previously on Enron's board of directors.

From the WIKI

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Napalm

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Napalm
Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

Which means his veto could have been upheld. Funny how Bush bears the responsibility of all the bills that he signs, eh?


I would like a single example of a bill that Bush signed in which he bears less 'blame' than either of 2 Democratic senators.

Buddy - forget about Bush. Your concern should be that if your guy wins, he will select as his Treasury Secretary none other than Phil Gramm. Talk about setting the fox loose in the hen house...

Uh huh. Obama's Vice President practically wrote the Patriot Act, while John Edwards pretty much wrote the Iraq War authorization; yet lefties don't seem to be concerned about those.

 

[Napalm]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Napalm

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Napalm
Well not so fast... It was indeed Clinton that signed the bill, BUT MCain voted for it and Biden voted against it. Further - the Republicans voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill and the Democrats were overwhelmingly against. But wait - it gets better... It seems that former Republican senator Phil Gramm, who sponsored the bill and later joined a Swiss bank to lobby Washington on its behalf, now is McCain's top economic advisor and co-chairman of McCain's presidental campaign. Wow. Obama is right - you can't even make this stuff up...

Which means his veto could have been upheld. Funny how Bush bears the responsibility of all the bills that he signs, eh?


I would like a single example of a bill that Bush signed in which he bears less 'blame' than either of 2 Democratic senators.

Buddy - forget about Bush. Your concern should be that if your guy wins, he will select as his Treasury Secretary none other than Phil Gramm. Talk about setting the fox loose in the hen house...

Uh huh. Obama's Vice President practically wrote the Patriot Act, while John Edwards pretty much wrote the Iraq War authorization; yet lefties don't seem to be concerned about those.

DIVERT! DIVERT! DIVERT! Oldest trick in the book... Do me a favour: stop trying to jack this thread with your crap and go start your own thread if you have issues with Biden or Edwards.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: smashp
Please People,

1. Lets not forget about Greenspan dropping Interest rates until money was Free

2. Lets not forget about Equity Lines of credit driving consumer spending after 9/11 and the tech bubble burst magically getting us out of what looked to be a really bad recession. Do your part to fight the evil terrorists and get to the mall and shop.

3. Lets not forget that they knew the house of cards was going to collapse and tried to privatise social security to drive additional capital into the markets.

4. Lets not forget about RAW GREED and our modern corporate culture of short term profit over long term stability.

Lets Forget about responsibility and pass our 11 trillion dollar bill onto the next generation

Let's not forget Dave warned us the whole time and was not just ignored but chastised for the warnings.

Is turnabout revenge?

 

[ProfJohn]

Your OP is false.

Biden DID vote for the final bill. The one that was signed into law.
And McCain did not even vote on the final bill.

I guess by your logic we can now blame Biden for all of our problems right?

BTW I don't think this one bill is the root cause of ALL of our problems.
I read that changes in account practices after the Enron failure are at the heart of the recent bank crisis. Banks are being forced to write paper losses as real losses and those losses are devastating the system

I read an interesting article about how this works. If I can find it I'll post it.

 

[Napalm]

The bill was passed 54-44 in the senate.

Link

The amended version was amended to get approval of the Dems and did pass as you note, but the changes were immaterial with respect to the subprime fiasco. McCain voted for the bill before he was neutral on the amendments, but Gramm was still the sponsor.

Anyway you cut it, a McCain Administration can't be good if Gramm is your top economic advisor and campaign chair... Gramm should scare you silly if he is going to have any role in a McCain administration.