Subaru Forester

[Redfraggle]

No, stereotypical subaru owners insist subarus are better for reasons that are vague and come across as fanboys. You even cite reasons the current Forester is inferior, then go on to state it's still a good verhicle.

First, I'm not a dude.

Second, I didn't say current Forester is inferior. It is not, however, what *I* want. I liked my 2002 much better and miss it, but it's long gone. The new one is a good vehicle. Just because it's not all that I hoped for doesn't negate that fact. It's still safe, reliable, well built, etc. I just liked the old boxy look better, and preferred how they handled.

When you are not a part of the target demographic for any product, you are probably not going to like it -- and that's ok.

Lastly, I gave very specific reasons why Subarus are great vehicles. I can give more.

How about that they are symmetrical and have an extremely low center of gravity. Then there's how low vibration the boxer engine is, resulting in a longer lasting engine. AWD is helpful in all kinds of low/lower traction situations, and they have the best AWD hands down. They even have several versions of it in their various cars, suited to each model.

I and others can cite specific reasons for our thoughts, while you give none and sling insults to distract from your weak position.

 

[kornphlake]

Did you just quote the sales literature? Face it, you're a fanboy, rather you're a dude or not, you are a fanboy.

 

[jlee]

Did you just quote the sales literature? Face it, you're a fanboy, rather you're a dude or not, you are a fanboy.

Says the guy who comes up with nothing of significance himself. Congratulations - you're whatever the opposite of a fanboy is. Hate without basis.

Nicely done.

 

[kornphlake]

Says the guy who comes up with nothing of significance himself. Congratulations - you're whatever the opposite of a fanboy is. Hate without basis.

Nicely done.

I already did bring something of significance to the argument:

Nothing about Subaru is better than average, reliability, MPG, styling, power, cost, etc.

You must have been so teary eyed that you couldn't see that part.

Compared to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Nissan, GM, etc. Subaru doesn't really do anything the rest aren't doing as well, except for the AWD thing they hang their hat on. I wasn't even the first to mention that the Forester isn't the strongest entry in the Subaru lineup. I don't say anywhere that I hate Subaru, I may have said something about Subaru owners, but as you've already pointed out that doesn't have anything to do with the car. I simply call Subarus average, which I don't think is unfair. Average doesn't mean bad, it just means similar to the rest and honestly in 2011 that shouldn't be taken as much of an insult, a Daewoo will go 60k miles without any major repairs.

 

[kornphlake]

Car and driver ranks the 2011 Forester:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q1/2011_subaru_forester_2.5x_touring-short_take_road_test

A new engine in the Forester does not disrupt the small-SUV pecking order. About a year ago, we pitted a Forester 2.5XT (the more powerful turbo, mind you) against seven other small utes. In that test, the Forester finished fourth behind a Toyota RAV4, Volkswagen Tiguan, and Honda CR-V. As with this naturally aspirated example, we loved the comparo Forester’s carlike handling and driver comfort and loathed the four-speed. Had we compared a 170-horse example, the Forester might have slipped a place or two, although its agility and manners still set it apart from the bottom half of the segment (the Mitsubishi Outlander, the GMC Terrain/Chevrolet Equinox, and the Ford Escape).

Sounds average to me when compared to the top tier auto manufacturers it's right in the middle in XT trim. The base model may be slightly below average.

 

[Redfraggle]

Did you just quote the sales literature? Face it, you're a fanboy, rather you're a dude or not, you are a fanboy.

No I didn't. I'm sorry if you can't handle big words and facts without thinking that though.

I find it amusing that you keep trying to insult me, and you still have posted nothing of significance, except an excerpt from C&D -- there is still nothing based on any fact here. Their opinion is still their opinion. C&D isn't exactly known for enjoying anything but the highest performing vehicles.

 

[Jumpem]

It's an opinion, do I really need to explain? Nothing about Subaru is better than average, reliability, MPG, styling, power, cost, etc. About the only thing Subaru has going for them is the AWD, but it's more of a novelty or a gimmick than anything else in my opinion, most Subaru owners will never drive in a situation where they'll need AWD. Other manufacturers offer AWD, they just don't have the "it's a rally car" image so those models are often dismissed unless you live in a northern state with harsh winters. To top it off, Subaru owners are just one step below Prius owners in smugness. Just one man's opinion, no further explanation.

Completely wrong.

 

[jlee]

I already did bring something of significance to the argument:



You must have been so teary eyed that you couldn't see that part.

Compared to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Nissan, GM, etc. Subaru doesn't really do anything the rest aren't doing as well, except for the AWD thing they hang their hat on. I wasn't even the first to mention that the Forester isn't the strongest entry in the Subaru lineup. I don't say anywhere that I hate Subaru, I may have said something about Subaru owners, but as you've already pointed out that doesn't have anything to do with the car. I simply call Subarus average, which I don't think is unfair. Average doesn't mean bad, it just means similar to the rest and honestly in 2011 that shouldn't be taken as much of an insult, a Daewoo will go 60k miles without any major repairs.

OP: Subaru Forester. Is it a good car?
You: "Personally I think Subarus are over-rated and the Forrester is the most over-rated model out of the bunch. I seem to be the only one who feels that way though so my opinion probably isn't valid."
Everyone else: lolwut?
You: "I simply call Subarus average"

How's that backpedaling working for ya?

I don't see too many people here saying there's nothing better. OP asked if it was a good car. You now agree...so what exactly are you complaining about? And no, not teary-eyed. Sorry to disappoint, but your opinion means nothing when I have a 13 second car in the driveway. IDGAF what you think.

You may call AWD a novelty or a gimmick, but some of us use it.

That's snow, in case you were wondering.

 

[Doppel]

They have their place. Not too expensive, proven reliability, and AWD (I think AWD is overrated, though, for most people's use). I really believe that traction and stability control have hacked away much of the benefit of AWD for the typical driver even in snowy conditions. If you live in an area with poor winter upkeep four wheels driving the car is obviously a big help, though.

 

[mgttr]

Then there's how low vibration the boxer engine is, resulting in a longer lasting engine.

That's the first time I've ever seen a claim for longer life for a boxer engine. I'd be curious to see any studies on that if you have a link for it.

I drove a Subaru for 12 years and never thought the engine had less vibration than any other similarly sized 4-cyl in-line engine. I realize that in theory the boxer engine configuration has better balance than an in-line, but at least for my Subaru that didn't seem to be the case.

 

[StrangeRanger]

That's the first time I've ever seen a claim for longer life for a boxer engine. I'd be curious to see any studies on that if you have a link for it.

I drove a Subaru for 12 years and never thought the engine had less vibration than any other similarly sized 4-cyl in-line engine. I realize that in theory the boxer engine configuration has better balance than an in-line, but at least for my Subaru that didn't seem to be the case.

Have to agree there. That's marketing BS at play. Lots of companies make flat engines and there's no real proof of less vibration or better than average service life.
In fact, Subaru's boxers are well known for leaky head gasket issues. God knows I've replaced more than I care to.
The 4 cyl in my wife's Forester is noisy as shit.
The H6 in my Outback is very nice, but I've driven/repaired a lot of cars with smoother engines.

 

[Redfraggle]

I don't anymore. I used to have all kinds of info because the only way you could sell to half the Subaru customers was to know more than them. But, the basic theory is that a boxer engine has less vibration.

 

[jlee]

Have to agree there. That's marketing BS at play. Lots of companies make flat engines and there's no real proof of less vibration or better than average service life.
In fact, Subaru's boxers are well known for leaky head gasket issues. God knows I've replaced more than I care to.
The 4 cyl in my wife's Forester is noisy as shit.
The H6 in my Outback is very nice, but I've driven/repaired a lot of cars with smoother engines.

The older n/a motors did (early 2000's, I believe), but nothing new and nothing turbocharged (to my knowledge- correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[JCH13]

I took it for a spin and I have to say it handles like crap looks like something from the 90's fuel economy is garbage. All the cars had terrible paint finish orange peel galore. I walked away not being very impressed.

Personally I think Subarus are over-rated and the Forrester is the most over-rated model out of the bunch. I seem to be the only one who feels that way though so my opinion probably isn't valid.

Sit down children, and let me tell you story about how uncle black2na embarassed STis and WRXs at an auto-x. You see, black2na borrowed JLee's FXT at an auto-x running in the stock class. There were many STis and WRXs in his class, and they all had extreme performance summer tires. But your uncle black2na only had worn-out UTQG 700 all-seasons to play with. That didn't stop him though. He placed near the top of his class, the only subaru beating him was the STi that won stock class! He sent at least two other STis and three WRXs home in shame, beating them by full seconds. He even had a few tenths on papa JCH13's old Miata and several Miatas in stock class! That car can do some serious business indeed!

 

[Kaervak]

The older n/a motors did (early 2000's, I believe), but nothing new and nothing turbocharged (to my knowledge- correct me if I'm wrong).

2003 and up the headgasket issues have been fixed.

 

[PingSpike]

I'm in the market for a small SUV and was sort of looking at the Forester. Its probably a no. The old Forester was a unique beast, sort of a semi-tall AWD wagon with a huge back window. The new one is a bald faced copy of the CRV/RAV4/Escape from appearances. And while the 4 speed automatic was merely meh 5 years ago its pretty much craptastic now and its just going to hurt fuel economy. In other words I feel like the car just seeks to be an also-ran against other small SUVs and wildly succeeds. I wish they'd focused on fuel economy.

I'll have a look at the Outback though, since they put a CVT in that which apparently helps mileage. The Forester is cheaper but not by much. I might still have a look at it.

If I can find a Hyundai Tucson I might get one of those, but I really don't need heated seats and the side mirrors from the space shuttle just to get AWD and apparently the nearest dealership doesn't even have one (of any type) on the lot. I really like that long warranty though.

I'll also take a look at a CRV, maybe a Ford Escape but my wife despises Ford for some reason. I haven't looked at the RAV4 but I hate the local Toyota dealership enough I'd continue to drive my Neon before I'd give them any money. I guess I could go elsewhere but I'd probably still end up at those assholes' service center one day.

 

[PingSpike]

Compared to Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Nissan, GM, etc. Subaru doesn't really do anything the rest aren't doing as well, except for the AWD thing they hang their hat on. I wasn't even the first to mention that the Forester isn't the strongest entry in the Subaru lineup. I don't say anywhere that I hate Subaru, I may have said something about Subaru owners, but as you've already pointed out that doesn't have anything to do with the car. I simply call Subarus average, which I don't think is unfair. Average doesn't mean bad, it just means similar to the rest and honestly in 2011 that shouldn't be taken as much of an insult, a Daewoo will go 60k miles without any major repairs.

Subaru's main claim to fame (to me) is having an AWD wagon. Last time I looked I had to buy a Volvo or a BMW for $$$ to get something comparable. That's why I have no idea why they've been crawling into the crowded larger SUV market. They sell something ridiculous like 70-90% of their cars in Colorado and Vermont and I was happy to hear they're planning on making fuel economy a focus going forward, because it seems like they've been focusing on ballooning car size recently.

 

[Redfraggle]

You liked the old Forester for the same reasons I did. My 2002 pretty much had no blind spots, it was awesome, and I got really good fuel economy in it. That same tranny can't haul around the big-assed new version though.

 

[roguerower]

I dislike the new look of the Foresters and I really wish I could buy a new Impreza WRX wagon that looked like the pre-07 versions. The new ones just look like a hatchback and the new Forester looks like a wannabe copy of the other Japanese small SUVs. If I wanted that car I'd buy that car.

 

[StrangeRanger]

You liked the old Forester for the same reasons I did. My 2002 pretty much had no blind spots, it was awesome, and I got really good fuel economy in it. That same tranny can't haul around the big-assed new version though.

I always give my wife crap about her Forester. Until the new ones came out when ever she saw the old body style ones she'd say "Look, I'll bet there's a rainbow sticker on the back".
Understand now, we live in VT, and while not PC to say it, 9/10 times she was right. There's always a rainbow sticker on the back and some mullet sporting bull *** driving them here in VT

 

[Redfraggle]

The lesbians seemed to mostly love the Outback and the Baja (horrid horrid thing) down here in NC. Subarus in general are popular among the LBGT community. I suspect that part of this is their very supportive policies for their workers. It's brought them loyalty and appreciation among that crowd. I like them bc they are safe and reliable. I really miss my square Forester. Seriously, I plan to get one as soon as this lease on the new style is up.

 

[Jumpem]

I'll have a look at the Outback though, since they put a CVT in that which apparently helps mileage. The Forester is cheaper but not by much. I might still have a look at it.

30mpg in mine.

 

[roguerower]

I kinda like the look of the Baja, almost like a mullet but reversed.

 

[sjwaste]

I just got an Outback 3.6R w/ the 5 speed auto. It's nice. I'm getting about 25 MPG in combined driving, too.

If you're shopping the Forester, I'd suggest looking at the Outback. The interior dimensions are pretty damn similar.

FWIW, this is my first Subaru, and I like it a lot so far.

 

[PingSpike]

I think the Baja idea had merit, its just the implementation was botched. Wasn't the read window unmovable and it had a drop down seat or something? I have to admit I find them hideous though, but I find all modern cars different levels of hideous so meh.

Apparently, Subaru used to sell a FWD car with a truck bed back in the 80s. Basically an El Camino without the muscle. They welded seats into the bed to get around the truck tariffs or something and you had to yank them out once they got to the states.

I know lesbians love the Forester, but I thought it was for the same reason they love Jeep Wranglers not because of some policies Subaru came up with. I kind of suspect the later came after the former myself.

30mpg in mine.

Is that mostly highway driving? What about in the winter?