Subaru WRX - Overpriced tin can?

[Rent]

<< We'll see how your V8s do against a WRX on a rally course or anything else that actually requires turns. There's no frickin' way a Corvette or any American cars (other than a Focus, I'll give you that much...and that's only because Colin McRae drives one...) can handle like the WRX. >>



This is the comment I was responding to.

And if Chevy was so inclined to mount a LS6 or LS1 into a Rally chassis and drivetrain, rest assured it would kick the crap out of a WRX in ANY condition.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<<

<< We'll see how your V8s do against a WRX on a rally course or anything else that actually requires turns. There's no frickin' way a Corvette or any American cars (other than a Focus, I'll give you that much...and that's only because Colin McRae drives one...) can handle like the WRX. >>



This is the comment I was responding to.

And if Chevy was so inclined to mount a LS6 or LS1 into a Rally chassis and drivetrain, rest assured it would kick the crap out of a WRX in ANY condition. >>



I dunno about that - I think you are carrying your argument a bit too far. No credible rally car could perform up to par with an engine as bulky and heavy as a 5.7L V-8. All WRC cars are pretty small and light, and could not handle competently with a big V-8.

 

[SinNisTeR]

you guys need to grow up.. like what ronin meantioned before.. you cant compare american redneck cars with imports.. compare the wrx to the rsx and so on and the camaro to the mustang or whatever. whats next.. we compare a geo metro to a mclaren?

 

[Rent]

<<

<<

<< We'll see how your V8s do against a WRX on a rally course or anything else that actually requires turns. There's no frickin' way a Corvette or any American cars (other than a Focus, I'll give you that much...and that's only because Colin McRae drives one...) can handle like the WRX. >>



This is the comment I was responding to.

And if Chevy was so inclined to mount a LS6 or LS1 into a Rally chassis and drivetrain, rest assured it would kick the crap out of a WRX in ANY condition. >>



I dunno about that - I think you are carrying your argument a bit too far. No credible rally car could perform up to par with an engine as bulky and heavy as a 5.7L V-8. All WRC cars are pretty small and light, and could not handle competently with a big V-8. >>



The LS1 and LS6 are full aluminum block and aluminum heads. They're not that heavy, but yes, they are heavier than an turbo boxer 4 or i4. The trick would be mounting the engine in the correct place and finding a AWD drivetrain that would handle the power. As long as the power makes it to the ground fine, then there won't be any problems.

But I do see what your saying.

 

[audiophan]

<< There are other types of racing other than rally and drag. Ever hear of road racing? Auto Cross, etc? Drag racing is what sells cars, everyone wants 0-60 and a low 1/4 mile time. I want a JDM RSX Type R Vtec with yellow Cobra racing seats and 8 turbos. Get rea >>



thats the fun with having a fast car-beating the guy next to you off the launch. your not going to be racing him through turns and such, i surely hope

 

[superkeith]

fine...next time i'll buy a corvette...

the corvette is faster than a wrx.
the corvette will outperform the wrx in every condition, at any type of race.
the interior of the corvette is nicer than a wrx.
did i miss anything?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

nm

 

[Rent]

<< fine...next time i'll buy a corvette...

the corvette is faster than a wrx.
the corvette will outperform the wrx in every condition, at any type of race.
the interior of the corvette is nicer than a wrx.
did i miss anything? >>



I said the Corvette outclasses the WRX. I even mentioned that AWD was good in snow conditions (or rain for that matter)

But on a Road Track, the Corvette will mop up while waiting for the WRX to finish.

Oh, and you'd be lucky to fit people in the backseat of a WRX. I've ridden in 3 - 1 wagon and 2 sedans and for anyone over 6' tall, its not comfortable at all. You might get 4 people in the wagon if one curled up in the back and 1 layed across the rear seat.

 

[ultimatebob]

<< There are other types of racing other than rally and drag. Ever hear of road racing? Auto Cross, etc? Drag racing is what sells cars, everyone wants 0-60 and a low 1/4 mile time. I want a JDM RSX Type R Vtec with yellow Cobra racing seats and 8 turbos. Get real. >>



Ok, if the mods aren't going to lock this thread, I might as well join in...

Personally, I don't care all that much about 0-60 times and drag racing when choosing a car. I choose cars that:

o Get good gas mileage
o Run well in all types of weather
o Are reasonably priced
o Are reliable
o Handle well
o Have nice styling, and good cargo room
o Have reasonable insurance rates
o Are affordable

Now, compare a Camaro to a WRX on those critera. I'll be generous and score it 6 to 2 for the WRX, only because of the "iffy" styling and the high price tag.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<<

<< fine...next time i'll buy a corvette...

the corvette is faster than a wrx.
the corvette will outperform the wrx in every condition, at any type of race.
the interior of the corvette is nicer than a wrx.
did i miss anything? >>



But on a Road Track, the Corvette will mop up while waiting for the WRX to finish. >>



This is an amazingly perceptive piece of commentary - a $42,000 V-8-equipped dedicated GT car can best a $25,000 4-cylinder AWD sedan? Will wonders never cease! Do you imagine a lot of potential WRX customers are cross-shopping Corvettes, or vice versa? I doubt it.

 

[Rent]

<<

<< There are other types of racing other than rally and drag. Ever hear of road racing? Auto Cross, etc? Drag racing is what sells cars, everyone wants 0-60 and a low 1/4 mile time. I want a JDM RSX Type R Vtec with yellow Cobra racing seats and 8 turbos. Get real. >>



Ok, if the mods aren't going to lock this thread, I might as well join in...

Personally, I don't care all that much about 0-60 times and drag racing when choosing a car. I choose cars that:

o Get good gas mileage
o Run well in all types of weather
o Are reasonably priced
o Are reliable
o Handle well
o Have nice styling, and good cargo room
o Have reasonable insurance rates
o Are affordable

Now, compare a Camaro to a WRX on those critera. I'll be generous and score it 6 to 2 for the WRX, only because of the "iffy" styling and the high price tag. >>



You listed price twice

As for 6 to 2, I don't know what Camaro you're comparing to the WRX, but if you don't lead foot a Camaro Z28 or SS around, you can easily get 18mpg in the city (not a far cry for the WRX's 20mpg as Suburu rates it). And the Camaro does handle well. I don't know where you people get the notion that its JUST a straight line car. How you seen how large a Camaro is? There is plenty of room in the back for transporting a suitcase/baggage, just not room for a baby seat or 4 people. The only things the WRX one ups the Camaro on is handling in ALL types of weather and insurance rates.

 

[Rent]

<<

<<

<< fine...next time i'll buy a corvette...

the corvette is faster than a wrx.
the corvette will outperform the wrx in every condition, at any type of race.
the interior of the corvette is nicer than a wrx.
did i miss anything? >>



But on a Road Track, the Corvette will mop up while waiting for the WRX to finish. >>



This is an amazingly perceptive piece of commentary - a $42,000 V-8-equipped dedicated GT car can best a $24,000 4-cylinder AWD sedan? Will wonders never cease! Do you imagine a lot of potential WRX customers are cross-shopping Corvettes, or vice versa? I doubt it. >>



You'd be surprised.

With the way people around here talk, a few facts need to be straightened out.

 

[Mill]

o Get good gas mileage
o Run well in all types of weather
o Are reasonably priced
o Are reliable
o Handle well
o Have nice styling, and good cargo room
o Have reasonable insurance rates
o Are affordable


They DO get good gas mileage. Try over 25 MPG on the highway.

They ARE reasonably priced.

They DO handle well.

They ARE affordable

They have OK styling.

Insurance IS high.

They are NOT very good in the snow but I live in the Deeo South so snow is maybe a once a year thing.


BTW the Z06 would destroy the WRX in a Road Course or anything. Rally wouldn't matter because it isn't a friggin rally car.


That being said WRX's are pretty nice. I don't like the interior and I don't think they are fast enough for me. I race one on the freeway when I was stock and it wasn't much of a race.

Mill

 

[fataIerror]

<< you guys need to grow up.. like what ronin meantioned before.. you cant compare american redneck cars with imports.. compare the wrx to the rsx and so on and the camaro to the mustang or whatever. whats next.. we compare a geo metro to a mclaren? >>



I'd bet my right nut the geo metro smokes the mclaren.

*edit* make it both nuts.

 

[RoninRXN]

<< you guys need to grow up.. like what ronin meantioned before.. you cant compare american redneck cars with imports.. compare the wrx to the rsx and so on and the camaro to the mustang or whatever. whats next.. we compare a geo metro to a mclaren? >>



Exactly. Even if a Camaro can smoke a WRX...I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, the engine size alone make all the difference.

Either way, I wouldn't be caught dead driving an American car. Only Japanese and Euros for me.

Maybe I should show you some photos from a Japanese auto show sometime...can you say 1000hp GReddy powered Skyline GT-R34?

 

[RoninRXN]

<< Corvette is a grand tourer- like a cheaper ferrari 550. Its too wide and cumbersome to be a real track car (ie formula ford). Wrx is neither..its a rally car designed for all weather conditions and a balanced performance character.

I can ride my bicycle faster than an camaro SS can drive in the snow. But on dry roads its a decent car provided you have the ability to drive it quickly. Basically its like a viper, great power in the hands of a pro...but in the hands of an amateur it'll be spinning out all day long. >>



GT, eh? Some cars that aren't GT are fast as hell too.

For example...

Nissan S30ZX with a RB26DETT engine.

1200 HP, 1/4 mile in 7 or less.

 

[Vic]

Might I remind you people that the original point made in this thread was that the WRX was an "overpriced tin can" that should only sell for $15,000? And now here we are, comparing this "should be $15,000 dollar" WRX to $65,000+ Corvettes? Sounds to me like the WRX isn't overpriced after all (unless everything is overpriced, which would be a valid point), but priced right where it should be.

Other than that, who cares? Some people like one kind of car, others another. Like some people like SUV's bigger than a freakin' house, while others like reliable, fuel efficient cars. Some people realize that a car that you can't get out of 2nd gear on a city street isn't that much fun. Some people say to-may-to while others say to-maw-to. It really doesn't matter. It's another sign of a rabid, unmodded troll when, after being pointed out for the troll that they are, they begin to cling to their point and dig in with insults as though they were defending some sacred (which, in fact, they may be, since the purpose of every troll is to keep their worthless thread alive).

 

[SinNisTeR]

stick it to em ronin..

 

[kumanchu]

<< Either that or I've just driven plenty of quality cars and the Subaru quality is evident to me. I used to have an Audi A4 2.8 Quattro so I know what refinement is about. People buying these WRXs think they're buying a 1/4 mile car and they just aren't up to the task. You are showing your ignorance by saying a Camaro cannot handle. A LS1 camaro would rip a WRX to shreds on just about any road course. Almost all performance cars are rear wheel drive, find me a Ferrari or Corvette with AWD. Can't do it can you. They seem to do pretty well on a track. Grow some balls and stop being a fanboy. >>



errr... hmmmm.... *cough *cough porche gt2 *cough *cough



<< Definately not a good argument. The LS1 is a very high tech engine based on proven technology. How many engines are designed with composite intake manifolds? I always wanted a SS camaro, it's more about the pride of owning a limited production american sports car. I'm sorry that i don't appreciate small engines with small displacement. I guess your argument for enthusiasts could also work for the LS1 camaros. They handle very well, have over 300 hp at the wheels and lots of torque. It only gets better with simple mods and the aftermarket is very active. I dont' care about all wheel drive or little engines with turbos or vtec this or that. Either you make the power and have a chassis that can handle it or you make excuses. >>



high tech = pushrods?

composite intake manifold = plastic...

ls1 camaro handles well?
thats rather subjective, and the behavior or the chasis in transients is unstable as are breakaway points.

small engine+small displacement+forced induction+light car ~ 300rwhp +lots of torque + heavy car

want simple mods?
replace the 3 catylic converters (yes 3) with zero restriction models and you get 20 more hp to the wheel. cost ~80
bux remove air resonator 10 more hp to the wheels ~ free (yes these are dyno proven)

active aftermarket
who needs one when you can order pro rally parts, but it does have quite an active aftermarket

make the power and have a chassis that can handle it?
jeez the fbody chassis is so good they are discontinuing it cause the govt says its so stable its unsafe.

oh and c5 corvettes were used in the pike peak hill climb which is a type of rally, i don't know if they still use them, but the major problem was that the front end didn't have nearly enough downforce to keep the front from ploughing. they were putting "ricer style" wings on the front bumpers...

 

[Howard]

<< Almost all performance cars are rear wheel drive. >>


Ever seen the Suzuki Grand Vitara Pikes Peak Special? No, it's not a performance car?

How about the Bugatti 16/4 Veyron? 1000HP doesn't make it a performance car?

Porsche 911 Turbo? 0-60 in 4.2, 1/4 in 12.7, lateral grip of 1.0g?

Realistically, how about the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI? 0-60 in 4.8, 1/4 in 12.9, lateral grip of .95g?

Motorex Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R? 0-60 in 4.0, 1/4 in 12.3, lateral grip of .94g?

 

[Triumph]

<< Corvette is a grand tourer- like a cheaper ferrari 550. Its too wide and cumbersome to be a real track car >>


The Corvette does have a great top end, true. Good for grand touring. But to say that thing isn't a track car is ridiculous! Those things tear it up on the road courses.

 

[Desturel]

Soo much non-love for American cars. I pains me.

 

[StandardCell]

Just to add to kumanchu's comments, the most fatal flaw with the Camaro and Firebird is the LIVE AXLE REAR END! That's right folks. Even my 95 Ford Probe GT can out-handle ANY stock live-axle Firebird or Camaro. Plus, over real-world conditions like bumpy need-to-be-paved offramps, the rear-end hops around like a cat on a frying pan. Translation - driving at the limit in the real world can cost even the best driver a serious accident in an F-body car.

As for the WRX, it is HARDLY a tin can. It's a solid well-rounded vehicle, and there are mod houses who make WRXs in the high 12s if you really want to. Of course, when it rains, let a RWD car try to perform quickly in that kind of weather.

 

[LongCoolMother]

well, sorry, i dont know much about cars n racing etc. but my mum bought a new accord sedan recently...hehehe what do uthink of that?

 

[rawoutput]

<< well, sorry, i dont know much about cars n racing etc. but my mum bought a new accord sedan recently...hehehe what do uthink of that? >>



You should go to the mall on Friday's and show it off to all the ricers there. They'll be all like "damn yo thats tight!" Damn, put some neon on it and you'll be smokin Jaguar XKR's, fo sho! Is it just me or does every Japanese car, except for the NSX and the Supra, seem like nothing more than some average tin can for average people? I haven't seen an argument against that reasoning yet. Just because you can't afford a decent European or high end American car doesn't mean you can get all pissy on people that can. "That there Corvette can't handle the twisties! My Prelude can beat it, its got fo' wheel steerin and boost, yo!" I don't see why anyone is comparing a Corvette to a WRX anyways, the 'vette can do 0-60 in 5 seconds and pulls 1.0g on the skidpad. Find another Japanese average-mobile, designed for people with a crappy station in life to compare the Subaru to, like a Lancer or a Sentra or something.
And yeah, I went along for a test drive in an WRX too. Its like riding in a Camry with a Momo wheel. Not that you can blame Subaru, thats their target audience.