Subway Sandwiches chicken about 50% actual chicken

[darkswordsman17]

So they tested for soy instead of testing for chicken? How is that proof rest of it is chicken?

Did you read the actual article? It explains all of that. They tested the composition makeup using a different test that is actually designed for testing that. The CBC one just used a DNA test and found soy and chicken. They found soy in enough of the individual samples that they're then making claims about composition but not understanding why it doesn't work that way.

More garbage from people that don't understand science using methods to try and make a point, and because they "scienced!" morons that don't understand things at all take as gospel.

And we are talking about one of the companies that used yoga mat foaming material in their bread.

I shall call my buddy who is in the org chem test consumable field.

Yeah one of like a million companies that were doing that for what decades...

Just because it's something used in a product like that doesn't mean it's not fine to use in food. If you are going to discard anything because it has a chemical that also is found in non-food material then you're not going to have anything to eat or drink.

Wait, I mean OMG chemicals! Pesticides! GMO! Rabble rabble rabble!

Damnit, I can never remember what the "____ law" thing that describes people having more knowledge and information and it making them dumber because they didn't understand how to actually use the knowledge and information.

 

[sdifox]

Did you read the actual article? It explains all of that. They tested the composition makeup using a different test that is actually designed for testing that. The CBC one just used a DNA test and found soy and chicken. They found soy in enough of the individual samples that they're then making claims about composition but not understanding why it doesn't work that way.

More garbage from people that don't understand science using methods to try and make a point, and because they "scienced!" morons that don't understand things at all take as gospel.



Yeah one of like a million companies that were doing that for what decades...

Just because it's something used in a product like that doesn't mean it's not fine to use in food. If you are going to discard anything because it has a chemical that also is found in non-food material then you're not going to have anything to eat or drink.

Wait, I mean OMG chemicals! Pesticides! GMO! Rabble rabble rabble!

Damnit, I can never remember what the "____ law" thing that describes people having more knowledge and information and it making them dumber because they didn't understand how to actually use the knowledge and information.

I did read the ars article. What I want to know is, if you are ELISA testing for the ppm of soy, does it tell you what the rest is?


<---- never been accused of being a scientist.

 

[darkswordsman17]

but WHY?!

Soy takes flavoring and coloring really well and it binds well. It enables them to provide a consistent look and flavor.

I'm just pretty certain that Subway is the ultimate piece of crap when it comes to mass market fast food.

Oh well I guess that settles it then. He hath spoken and therefore Subway = the absolute worst fast food you can get anywhere!

It's a SHITTY quality patty. Everything else about Five Guys is fine albeit overpriced. But the burger flat out sucks, they might as well be using 50% kangaroo and 50% capybara.

It seems fine to me. I'm not saying it's great quality, but I prefer their patties to most places (even similar, like SmashBurger) although it kinda depends on mood. Not sure if it's the seasoning or just the way they cook it.

Wait, the rest is fine? Their buns are like the cheapest grocery store buns you can find (and they smash the shit out of them when they roll them up in the foil). And that actually doesn't bother me that much (which is weird because normally I hate places that have shitty bun to burger ratio).

Five Guys is definitely overpriced as hell though, but I still sometimes crave their food and pretty much no other burger place will suffice when that happens.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think I figured out why this situation occurred. I think the CBC was likely checking for a situation like the horsemeat scandal. And they used DNA testing in that situation (since then they've developed tests that can detect horse vs beef that tests for fatty compounds I believe).

I'll have to look into that situation more (how they tested for amount of horse, and also pig meat as quick Google says they found trace amounts of pig but a lot more horse) and see if there might be more differences.

But I think that is why the CBC is likely saying they're test isn't wrong. Could be them misinterpreting the results or the lab they used not understanding what they were actually looking for and so might've given them raw data or a conclusion that seems sensationalist but isn't if they'd known (and so might've adjusted the testing for that).

The reality is that it likely just shows that Subway's chicken is more processed or more blended than the others, hence why they got more soy showing up. That wouldn't be shocking (and also is likely intentional by Subway). But cutting chicken chunks and breading them (like most fast food places do) would provide a different result because most of the seasoning stuff is on the outside (and hence would show up in fewer samples).

I did read the ars article. What I want to know is, if you are ELISA testing for the ppm of soy, does it tell you what the rest is?


<---- never been accused of being a scientist.

From what I've gathered (I'm not a food scientist either, but if you know what sources to trust and holy shit, Google is flooded with fucking garbage on food and health topics these days) it applies an enzyme to the samples (which are arrayed in a grid section), and then you just look at the color change. I guess I see your point in that it comes off as them just testing for the soy content (and therefore that doesn't mean that the rest is all chicken), but I believe that would show up in the test (plus with the results of the CBC provided study, that essentially says it was ~50% soy and chicken, then if it was something else, then that shows the CBC study was also completely borked as well if this other test is showing ppm levels of soy).

This shows the actual report from the one company:
https://arstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/B736641V2-R2017-03-01_15-08-36_R0067.pdf

Sorry that wasn't directed at you, more about the media and shitheads like Mercola and the FoodBabe or whatever that idiot that started the "OMG yoga mat" nonsense and has regularly shown she doesn't understand very basic science but still makes claims that people buy because she uses vaguely scientific terms and thinks she's applying scientific reasoning to.

 

[MrSquished]

Oh well I guess that settles it then. He hath spoken and therefore Subway = the absolute worst fast food you can get anywhere!

I'm pretty sure having opinions on very subjective matters like food is still allowed here.

I like fast food. Of chains that serve sandwiches I've been to Arby's, Quiznos, Panera Bread, Cosi, Jersey Mike's, Subway. I have yet to try Firehouse or Potbelly but both are easy enough for me to get to. Subway was easily the worst with Arby's coming in a close second.

Expanding to include all types of fast food chains, Subway is still the worst to me, and you can add in Smashburger as a shitty chain also. I've tried Carls Jr, Rallys, Whataburger, Five Guys, McD's, Wendys, Burger King, In n Out, Sonic, Jack in the Box, Fuddruckers, Jonny Rockets, Red Robin, Shake Shack and probably some more. Smashburger was acceptable once at an airport, we were famished. So I went back and it was flavorless. I finished it but I had to make myself, I didn't want to waste money.

Last time I ate at Subway I got a Cold Cut Combo with plenty of toppings for flavor. The toppings look appealing, but that's it. It's the last meal I can remember that I had no urge to continue eating shortly after starting it. The only other meal in recent history I didn't want to eat was a chicken sandwich I got from a local bodega - I bit into it and it was rancid. I had to spit it out. Subway was not on that level obviously, it was just bad.

That's my take on things.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I don't see why anyone cares. Make food for yourself so you know what's in it or go out and accept that the food you eat may be of lesser quality. Subway tastes fine. There's no reason for this to change anyone's life or decisions.

 

[lxskllr]

and holy shit, Google is flooded with fucking garbage on food and health topics these days)

Truth! Trying to quantify anything food related is tedious, and it's hard finding actual studies on the more esoteric additives. It would be nice to have a science related food site that didn't post bullshit, and scare stories.

 

[MrSquished]

I don't see why anyone cares. Make food for yourself so you know what's in it or go out and accept that the food you eat may be of lesser quality. Subway tastes fine. There's no reason for this to change anyone's life or decisions.

It's just a discussion. Food is not only a necessity of life but it also brings great pleasure and/or disgust. So it's fun to talk about. I don't think talking about fast food joints is going to change anyones life. Maybe if we discussed different types of food and dishes and people discovered an amazing dish or recipe it would change their life a little bit in a good way.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Other then possibly deceptive advertising what exactly is the big fucking issue with adding a soy protein filler? And why does processed automatically mean bad? Fast food chicken is basically the equivalent of ground beef.

The problem is the fact that they put all sorts of fillers and without these 3rd party tests we would not know. In some cases it's stuff that's bad (like the petroleum product that is used in their bread). If something says it's chicken, it should be only chicken. The whole idea that they can shove any fillers they want in our food should not be allowed. There needs more regulations on that. Or at very least regulate it on the same level as mom and pop shops are regulated... which is super extreme. Corporations need to stop getting free breaks. Soy is not as bad as some other stuff that gets put into our food, but it's still not that great for you. Something about how it messes up your hormones or something.

If a mom and pop shop was doing something like this they'd get slapped pretty hard. Heck, even if they don't, in lot of cases they're simply not allowed to sell stuff period. Like those ladies that were selling baked goods on Facebook and got arrested for it. The stuff they were selling was more than likely much better for you than stuff that comes out of a chain. At least it's normal ingredients in it. The issue is the government is more worried about licensing and other bureaucratic BS like that than the actual safety of the food. It makes it very hard for a small shop to survive as the requirements are too high when corporations can do what they want because they're so big.

 

[rh71]

big mac has 563 calories. so that's 1126 cals...

on the assumption that you're going to subway for a moderately healthy fast food selection, and thus choose reasonably when you select your subs, you can get a footlong thats 750-800 cals easy (like chicken or roast beef). Some of their subs are easily over 1000 cals though.

Personally I'd choose Subway over McDonald's most of the time just because of the calories. But I really prefer to make my own sandwich and not waste money or calories on fast food. I like McDonald's, but its pretty horrible for you generally.

I'm 39 and only 155 lbs while physically active. I'll take those calories.

 

[Kaido]

I did read the ars article. What I want to know is, if you are ELISA testing for the ppm of soy, does it tell you what the rest is?

Commercial food is one of the sketchiest businesses in existence. Subway doesn't do anything any other food company doesn't do, but it's all still super sketchy. For example:

1. Marketing terms: Made "with" is not the same as made "of". If you go to Olive Garden & buy a chicken marsala dinner, it can be made with 100% real white-meat chicken breast...but it still has mushrooms, butter, etc.

2. Visual marketing via packaging: Subway's "olive oil" is actually 90% canola oil & 10% olive oil. Behold the canola & 10% Extra Virgin OLIVE OIL blend - a "Master Chef" blend! Mmm!

3. Marketing names: "Footlong" is a name, not a unit of measurement. They call it a creative license. May I present you with some alternative facts for your lunchtime enjoyment, good sir?

4. Purposeful marketing omissions: Jared did indeed lose a ton of weight while eating Subway. What they neglected to mention was that he restricted himself to a 1,000-calories per day diet consisting of coffee for breakfast, a 6" sub for lunch, and a 6" sub for dinner. The dinner sub was veggies without cheese or typical condiments (no oil, no mayo, etc.). So not exactly something that would fill you up or was standard off the menu.

5. Marketing endorsements: A company called "Doctor's Associates" owns Subway. This way, they can say "The Doctor's Associates say that Subway is the best thing you can eat for your health." Seems legit!

What's difficult is that there are some dumb marketing gimmicks, but not everything is awful. "FoodBabe" blogger Vani Hari started a petition & got Subway to remove a chemical in their breads that was also used to make yoga mats. However:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....tist-challenge-the-scare-promoting-food-babe/

“If I told you that a chemical that’s used as a disinfectant, used in industrial laboratory for hydrolysis reactions, and can create a nasty chemical burn is also a common ingredient in salad dressing, would you panic?”

D’Entremont was talking about vinegar.

There are people who make a living off things like blogging online, who need to generate income through pageviews, which are easily created by creating drama, and can create a lot of social media influence for change: (for better or for worse)

“Reading Hari’s site, it’s rare to come across a single scientific fact. Between her egregious abuse of the word ‘toxin’ anytime there’s a chemical she can’t pronounce and asserting that everyone who disagrees with her is a paid shill, it’s hard to pinpoint her biggest sin,” she wrote.

...

In the sparring, Hari noted that d’Entremont worked for Amvac Chemical, which has ties to Monsanto. She alleged that Gawker paid d’Entremont for the now viral piece.

Discrediting scientists by using an online social media "army" is almost like saying China created climate change

Part of the problem is that we have really stupid food laws in America & really strong lobbies, so we get corruption & weaselly marketing words. Things are getting better, slowly, but thanks to stuff like GRAS & capitalism, it will never be perfect. And most people don't really care; Subway does almost $10 billion in sales annually. So, meh.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Subway is a place to go when you can't find a real sandwich.

 

[louis redfoot]

restaurants (fast food included) are so overpriced these days. i'll take my homemade turkey on wheat with mayo over any store bought sandwich. i'm down to just mcmuffins and domino's west coast veggie pizza, everything else is from the supermarket.

 

[Genx87]

I dont know the answers. But Subways initial response sounded like "we got caught". They were going to look into it. Then came back with "our food is upto our standards". Which is the best marketing BS known to man.

 

[rh71]

I dont know the answers. But Subways initial response sounded like "we got caught". They were going to look into it. Then came back with "our food is upto our standards". Which is the best marketing BS known to man.

Come on, there's always a way to spin it off. Just like when people argue politics or religion. It's pretty frustrating, isn't it?

 

[slag]

Disagree

I don't think 5 guys knows how to season a burger properly. I've eaten there probably 5 or 6 times and every time the burger is flavorless. That, and they don't have ranch dressing for their french fries. What savages.......

 

[Kaido]

I don't think 5 guys knows how to season a burger properly. I've eaten there probably 5 or 6 times and every time the burger is flavorless. That, and they don't have ranch dressing for their french fries. What savages.......

They don't. Before I got on my allergy medicine, I couldn't have gluten & thus couldn't eat the buns. Some places like BurgerFi do a fantastic greenstyle lettuce-wrapped burger. The one from Five Guys is awful...the beef has zero flavor. All of the flavor is in the bun (and the cheese). Compare that to say Shake Shack, which supposedly uses a 50:25:25 blend of sirloin, chuck, and brisket, and you start out with a much better meaty foundation. Mmm, meat.

 

[nakedfrog]

They don't. Before I got on my allergy medicine, I couldn't have gluten & thus couldn't eat the buns. Some places like BurgerFi do a fantastic greenstyle lettuce-wrapped burger. The one from Five Guys is awful...the beef has zero flavor. All of the flavor is in the bun (and the cheese). Compare that to say Shake Shack, which supposedly uses a 50:25:25 blend of sirloin, chuck, and brisket, and you start out with a much better meaty foundation. Mmm, meat.

I wonder what they do for beef supplies, because the one I go to has great beef flavor in the patties. I don't know that they season them at all.

 

[Kaido]

I wonder what they do for beef supplies, because the one I go to has great beef flavor in the patties. I don't know that they season them at all.

Have you tried the patty with no bun & no cheese? I've been to a handful of Five Guys around CT & they are all super bland.

Their cajun fries, OTOH...nom nom nom

 

[louis redfoot]

Their cajun fries, OTOH...nom nom nom

that reminds me, one time i went popeye's ~15 minutes before closing. i was the only customer there and i order a small box of chicken. i see the kitchen staff dumping a huge load of freshly made chicken and biscuits into the case. so i asked them what happens if nobody buys it... they get to take it home lol

 

[sdifox]

that reminds me, one time i went popeye's ~15 minutes before closing. i was the only customer there and i order a small box of chicken. i see the kitchen staff dumping a huge load of freshly made chicken and biscuits into the case. so i asked them what happens if nobody buys it... they get to take it home lol

You get sick of it real fast.

 

[mxnerd]

that reminds me, one time i went popeye's ~15 minutes before closing. i was the only customer there and i order a small box of chicken. i see the kitchen staff dumping a huge load of freshly made chicken and biscuits into the case. so i asked them what happens if nobody buys it... they get to take it home lol

I once at Albertson and it's close to 10PM, they still have fried chicken left, the price was slashed to $1 for 8 pieces.

 

[Svnla]

I once at Albertson and it's close to 10PM, they still have fried chicken left, the price was slashed to $1 for 8 pieces.

At my Albertson, the deli section would close around 7 p.m. or so while the store would stay open until 11 p.m. IIRC.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I dont know the answers. But Subways initial response sounded like "we got caught". They were going to look into it. Then came back with "our food is upto our standards". Which is the best marketing BS known to man.

I'd have to see what the initial response exactly was, but I'm pretty sure from the start they disputed it and said they use 100% chicken with seasoning. That is very different from what you're saying. And they backed it up by having their stuff tested and providing the results, and when food science people are going "the CBC's test doesn't even make sense for doing what they're claiming", I'll take the side of the people that know this shit over media people trying to push sensationalist bullshit.

Subway definitely should have been heavily criticized for acting like their subs make you lose weight and the foot long fiasco. So far this seems like the moronic psuedoscience bullshit that has become far too common and is outright leading to major health issues (not getting vaccines, believing in homeopathy, bunch of other shit).

They don't. Before I got on my allergy medicine, I couldn't have gluten & thus couldn't eat the buns. Some places like BurgerFi do a fantastic greenstyle lettuce-wrapped burger. The one from Five Guys is awful...the beef has zero flavor. All of the flavor is in the bun (and the cheese). Compare that to say Shake Shack, which supposedly uses a 50:25:25 blend of sirloin, chuck, and brisket, and you start out with a much better meaty foundation. Mmm, meat.

I think that's why I like them, they just make grilled burger. I don't like how a lot of places season their beef. If I want to add flavor I'll do it with toppings/sauce. That I can pick and choose, but when places have a seasoning I don't like then there's nothing I can do about it.

I think the same could be said about anything (like fries, which I like Five Guys' fries a lot and so that probably helps with the overall flavor).

restaurants (fast food included) are so overpriced these days. i'll take my homemade turkey on wheat with mayo over any store bought sandwich. i'm down to just mcmuffins and domino's west coast veggie pizza, everything else is from the supermarket.

This. I don't know that any place is worth the cost of their food now. It's not even just eating out either. Am I crazy or in like just the past couple of years have food prices jumped up? Even junk food has gotten stupid expensive (and yes it was always a waste and people were paying to ruin their health), which actually might be a good thing (but people don't seem to be noticing).

There's definitely plenty of food that is still cheap, which makes things all the more baffling as that would seem to imply that there wasn't some overall price correction in the food market or that there is some specific thing that caused it. It's like a lot of companies just upped the price and are getting away with it.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Commercial food is one of the sketchiest businesses in existence. Subway doesn't do anything any other food company doesn't do, but it's all still super sketchy. For example:

1. Marketing terms: Made "with" is not the same as made "of". If you go to Olive Garden & buy a chicken marsala dinner, it can be made with 100% real white-meat chicken breast...but it still has mushrooms, butter, etc.

2. Visual marketing via packaging: Subway's "olive oil" is actually 90% canola oil & 10% olive oil. Behold the canola & 10% Extra Virgin OLIVE OIL blend - a "Master Chef" blend! Mmm!

3. Marketing names: "Footlong" is a name, not a unit of measurement. They call it a creative license. May I present you with some alternative facts for your lunchtime enjoyment, good sir?

4. Purposeful marketing omissions: Jared did indeed lose a ton of weight while eating Subway. What they neglected to mention was that he restricted himself to a 1,000-calories per day diet consisting of coffee for breakfast, a 6" sub for lunch, and a 6" sub for dinner. The dinner sub was veggies without cheese or typical condiments (no oil, no mayo, etc.). So not exactly something that would fill you up or was standard off the menu.

5. Marketing endorsements: A company called "Doctor's Associates" owns Subway. This way, they can say "The Doctor's Associates say that Subway is the best thing you can eat for your health." Seems legit!

What's difficult is that there are some dumb marketing gimmicks, but not everything is awful. "FoodBabe" blogger Vani Hari started a petition & got Subway to remove a chemical in their breads that was also used to make yoga mats. However:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....tist-challenge-the-scare-promoting-food-babe/



There are people who make a living off things like blogging online, who need to generate income through pageviews, which are easily created by creating drama, and can create a lot of social media influence for change: (for better or for worse)



Discrediting scientists by using an online social media "army" is almost like saying China created climate change

Part of the problem is that we have really stupid food laws in America & really strong lobbies, so we get corruption & weaselly marketing words. Things are getting better, slowly, but thanks to stuff like GRAS & capitalism, it will never be perfect. And most people don't really care; Subway does almost $10 billion in sales annually. So, meh.

Great post. I absolutely think Subway deserves a lot of criticism for a lot of that shit. I'll actually give them credit for making the 10% olive oil very clearly visible on the label though. If more companies did stuff like that (and we just taught people to understand that) things would be a lot better.