Suggest a new media center device

[AstroManLuca]

Currently using an Xbox 360 for Netflix, DVD playback, and as a media center extender. It works fine, but my Xbox Live subscription is going to run out in a couple months and when it does I don't intend to renew. I don't play Xbox 360 games online anymore and I don't like the idea of paying Microsoft a fee just to access my Netflix account, which I also pay for. So I thought for just a bit more than the cost of a new subscription, I could get a Roku instead.

I was strongly considering getting one, especially after seeing they updated their models today, but if it's ONLY a Netflix box and nothing else, I'm not really interested. I really need the ability to stream videos from my computer.

Right now it looks like I have two options. One is to set up an HTPC. I could actually build one for almost nothing using spare parts - putting the guts from one computer into an HTPC case from another computer. All I'd have to do is find some way to control it from the couch. Not sure if I'd need some sort of bluetooth or IR remote, or a mini-keyboard or what. I wouldn't want it to be big and clunky like a full keyboard + mouse set.

The other option is to get a WD TV Live Plus. Seems like a more versatile alternative to a Roku.

Any suggestions on what I should do? Seems like a PS3 might actually be the best of all possible worlds (Netflix with no extra charge, streaming from PC, DVD + BR player, all in one device), but it's too expensive. $100 is more like it. And I really don't care about Blu-Ray.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I currently have a PBO. Obviously no netflix on it, but I don't use netflix anyway.

But on your point, I just picked up one of the new Roku's to try out. While it doesn't play AVI's, it does play mk4 and other codecs. Supposedly they are working on adding AVI support. If nothing else it has a return policy. Why all these companies boast so much and always manage to leave out 1 or 2 things is beyond me. If one company made a product that did all of this and did it well, it could cost $500 and people would buy it ;p

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

HTPC + http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00224ZDFY/

 

[AstroManLuca]

What appeals to me about the WD TV Live is that it can play just about any video file you can throw at it, and because I know it works both with streaming and local USB storage. Which is one reason I'm really not considering one of the more limited devices like the Roku or AppleTV. I don't care how easy the device is to use if I have to mess around with converting all my files to one format or another, which can take hours.

Also, it would be much smaller, quieter, and cooler than an HTPC.

Does anyone have one of these WD devices?

EDIT: Also I just read about one called the Patriot Box Office. How does that one compare?

 

[BTA]

Seems like if you are happy with the 360 then you should stick with that. The cost of a 12 month gold subscription is like $50. Cheaper than buying something else.

 

[AstroManLuca]

If I keep using the 360, I would have to do two things:

- Buy another Xbox Live Gold membership (~$50 per year for as long as I want to keep using it), and
- Get a new remote for it.

That's the other reason I don't like the Xbox. I got a remote for it, but it's pretty awful. Not responsive at all, has to be aimed perfectly to work. Getting a good remote shouldn't be expensive, but simply finding one might be tough. I was only able to find really cheap ones that I'm afraid will be just as bad, and a Logitech one that costs more than $100.

If I keep a set top box for two years (pretty likely), then it's a cheaper option than continuing to buy Xbox Live solely for the Netflix access. And that's without even taking into account the cost of a new remote.

 

[yadda]

What appeals to me about the WD TV Live is that it can play just about any video file you can throw at it, and because I know it works both with streaming and local USB storage. Which is one reason I'm really not considering one of the more limited devices like the Roku or AppleTV. I don't care how easy the device is to use if I have to mess around with converting all my files to one format or another, which can take hours.

Also, it would be much smaller, quieter, and cooler than an HTPC.

Does anyone have one of these WD devices?

EDIT: Also I just read about one called the Patriot Box Office. How does that one compare?

I do have the WDTV Live Plus and I will post more details tonight on the positives and negatives that I see.

 

[soulcougher73]

Boxee Box?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Boxee Box looks nice, especially the remote. But it costs twice as much as the WDTV Live Plus... what does it offer other than a neat remote?

 

[Modelworks]

The new roku boxes are DLNA , meaning any media you currently have can be streamed to it over your home network. They are not netflix only. They are using the latest chips from broadcom that includes a gpu, dual mips cores, and enough power to run java applications. You only need a DLNA server to watch your media on the box.

It really is the best hardware for media playback until you get into the $400+ range.

Full specs:
Networking

• 802.11n Wi-Fi (b/g/n compatible) with WEP, WPA and WPA2 support
• 10/100 Base-T Ethernet
• Bluetooth version 3.0 (currently enabled for use with Roku game remote only)

Video Outputs

• 480i (over composite video)
• 480p (over HDMI)
• 720p (over HDMI)
• 1080p (over HDMI)

Audio Output

• Analog stereo (mini-jack to left/right/composite video RCA)
• Digital over HDMI (5.1 surround sound pass-through)

Storage Expansion

• microSD card slot for additional game and channel storage

Remote Control

• Roku Bluetooth game remote (with motion sensing for playing games)
• Streaming player includes IR. Compatible with various universal remotes

Power Consumption

• Less than 2W (typical) when streaming HD video

USB Media Formats

• Video: MP4 (H.264), WMV/ASF (WMV9/VC-1) ASF/WMV files encoded in WMV9 can be displayed at a maximum resolution of 480p. MP4 and ASF/WMV files encoded in VC-1 can be displayed at a maximum resolution of 1080p.
• Audio: AAC, MP3
• Image: JPG, PNG

Video Support

• MP4 (H.264)
• MOV (H.264)
• MKV (H.264)
• ASF/WMV (WMV9/VC-1)

Audio Support

• MP3
• AAC
• Dolby Digital (MP4, MOV and MKV pass through only)
• DTS (MKV pass through only)

Image Support

• JPG
• PNG

 

[AstroManLuca]

The new roku boxes are DLNA , meaning any media you currently have can be streamed to it over your home network. They are not netflix only. They are using the latest chips from broadcom that includes a gpu, dual mips cores, and enough power to run java applications. You only need a DLNA server to watch your media on the box.

It really is the best hardware for media playback until you get into the $400+ range.

So I could just install some DLNA software on my computer and a Roku would do the job? I had never heard of DLNA until I got my phone, which supports it.

Still leaning towards the WD because of the sheer number of file types supported, but the Roku is a lot smaller and looks like it has a better remote and interface. Games might be fun too since I do all my "serious" gaming on my PC.

 

[Modelworks]

So I could just install some DLNA software on my computer and a Roku would do the job? I had never heard of DLNA until I got my phone, which supports it.

Still leaning towards the WD because of the sheer number of file types supported, but the Roku is a lot smaller and looks like it has a better remote and interface. Games might be fun too since I do all my "serious" gaming on my PC.

Yes. DLNA took awhile to get into the home but since it has it really simplifies file sharing. DLNA will query a device for what it supports. If the device supports the format then the content is streamed exactly as it is on the pc, if the device doesn't support it then the DLNA software on the pc will transcode it in real time to a format the device can read.

I expect the roku2 boxes to put the other set top boxes out of business because it has everything people have been wanting and at a price that is reasonable.


I have a wdtv live. I also have written custom firmware for it and I use it daily for playing back content. I know the box inside and out down to the registers in the processor. The main downside for me with the live is that while it supports a lot of codecs, the bandwidth into the box itself isn't as high as I would like. The ports are 10/100 and the usb is fairly slow which is fine for playing back content but I have mine connected to an external USB hard drive and like to upload content to the drive and it can take some time to do that with the slower network support. The processor was designed for cable DVR and so they didn't allow for anything in the design that exceeded that need. Things like fast forward, rewind can sometimes be slower than I like. Overall though it is a good player but I think the roku is a better deal now.

The two big DLNA software apps are tversity and playon.
Playon requires purchase after the free trial to continue using.
http://tversity.com/home
http://www.playon.tv/playon

 

[Corn]

I've got the WD Live Plus and it just plain works, every time.

 

[LikeLinus]

I'm completely confused. I have a WD Live Plus and it wouldn't play 1/2 of the movies I threw at it. It apparently choked on anything with 6 channel or DTS audio in AC3 format. I can't remember which, but it would not play and would give me a screen with some text that said the file format wasn't supported. It's been awhile since I've seen it, but I had all kinds of issues with MKV files.

When the WD Live Plus worked, it was awesome, but I experienced a lot of issues with file formats.

I ended up building HTPCs for $250 for each of my TVs. FAR more flexible and I can customize it easily. It also supports Live TV.

 

[ponyo]

Apple TV2. Great Netflix interface. Free Hulu works and you don't get ads so it's actually better than the computer version. XBMC will play just about any video format. You do have to stick with SD for things like avi and xvid. 720p mkv are fine. Dbstreaming lets you watch streaming TV channels from all over the world.

 

[vi edit]

Apple TV + xbmc + ice films = win.

 

[ponyo]

Apple TV + xbmc + ice films + navi-x + free Hulu without commercials = win.

fixed.

SeeOn.TV is another great plug-in. With SeeOn and LiveStreams plugin, you don't need cable or satellite TV. For people who watch international channels, LiveStreams is a must. Or you can make your own playlist copying links from theStreamDB.com and play the streams with XBMC videos. The possibilities are endless.

 

[yadda]

I do have the WDTV Live Plus and I will post more details tonight on the positives and negatives that I see.

Sorry about this...I promised this last week:

WDTV Live Plus - 6 weeks so far

- Excruciatingly slow when booting up - close to a minute to be ready to respond
- Elegant PS3 type interface
- There is no resume possibility of previously started video files *unless* you leave the device powered on all the time. This setting is obviously stored in volatile memory. If you do decide to resume a file the DEFAULT action is wrong IMHO. By default the "restart" as opposed to the option to resume. It is also hard to see which setting is highlighted.
- There have been 2x since I have had it powered up that it will not recognize *any* file I try to open. Reboot fixes the issue.
- playback is less buggy in general. FF works as compared to the Asus. WDTV does not hang.
- When you skip on 10 minute intervals the onscreen bar doesn't update sometimes.
- To enable subtitles is very well done.



Asus R1 O!play - used for 18 months

- Booted and up in less than 10 seconds
- Designed to be powered off if needed
- If you stop a video file and then power down the device and then power up the device and call up that same video file The Asus saves the point at which you exited and prompts if you want to resume - big plus
- Very Crude interface
- In general seems less buggy when playing video files
- On MKV high data rate ripped files using FastForward often gets "stuck" and you are forced mess with play/pause until it will respond
- The jump forward or backward mode is well designed - you can pick the increments in the settings that the jump will happen 5, 10, or 20 minutes etc.. *one button press jump*
- To even enable subtitles it is a huge PITA. Poorly designed menus.

 

[smitbret]

Yes. DLNA took awhile to get into the home but since it has it really simplifies file sharing. DLNA will query a device for what it supports. If the device supports the format then the content is streamed exactly as it is on the pc, if the device doesn't support it then the DLNA software on the pc will transcode it in real time to a format the device can read........

.......The two big DLNA software apps are tversity and playon.
Playon requires purchase after the free trial to continue using.
http://tversity.com/home
http://www.playon.tv/playon

Well, close, but not quite. DLNA is a set of protocols that re used to implement media streaming across devices. DLNA does not transcode incompatible file types. You'll need DLNA compatible software to do that, like Tversity, Mezzmo or PS3 Media Server.

As far as the Roku, it doesn't look to offer as much as the WD Live in the way of local media streaming. It also does not natively support DTS or AC3 tracks, except to pass them through to a tv or receiver that supports them. I'll bet you can't use multi-channel .aac tracks, either. My biggest dissapointment is the bandwidth limitation of 8Mb/s with 12Mb/s peaks. That makes a BR Rip completely unplayable since most of them average aruond 20 and peak in the 30's. Even the promised 15Mb/s "upgrade" leaves you with unplayable rips because not only is the bitrate limitation too low, but it doesn't support MPEG-2 standard files like .m2ts and .vob. If you want a home library with original quality, the WD walks all over the Roku.

Put bluntly, you will have to re-encode/transcode EVERY DVD and BR rip to get it to work with the Roku boxes. That's just stupid. I've been complaining about the PS3 and how its lack of support for .mkv is such a pain in the neck, but I'm starting to rethink it. How much nicer is it to just spend 12 minutes ripping a DVD or 35 minutes ripping a Blu-Ray instead of worrying about Handbrake settings and spending my afternoon trying to make my new copy of Paul Blart:Mall Cop stream properly to my media streamer? Don't forget the lack of .avi support either.

My suggestion, buy a Samsung BD-D5700 ($152), BD-6500 ($156) or LG BD670 ($158). You'll get better codec support, and it will play BR discs including 3D (6500 & 670).

 

[Krynj]

Boxee Box owner here, and I've been quite happy with it. I stream mostly 1080p MKV rips from my computer. I was using Wi-Fi, but anything that reached a 24mbit bit rate would choke the network hard. Ended up going wired, and it's worked flawlessly since. It's not without its quirks, but it's worked great for me. I find it to be quite reliable. I can't think of any files I have that it hasn't played.

 

[Aikouka]

What cell phone do you own? I control my downstairs HTPC and my upstairs ATV2+XBMC with Hippo Remote on my iPhone. It essentially uses VNC and sends keyboard commands and such, but it also supports a track pad and other nifty little features.

I use an AppleTV 2 with XBMC installed. My only complaint about it is that the box doesn't seem to sleep anymore, and this seems to cause some issues with the video and my receiver. I either have to switch the receiver to the ATV2, turn off the receiver and turn it back on to see the video. If that doesn't work, I have to turn the ATV2 off (remove the power plug) and then it will work. It's not a deal breaker, but it is a bit of a pain.

I updated the XBMC software on it finally, and the menus are much smoother. The one thing I had to do was tell it to install XBMC rather than just do an update. It seems the update always failed to update XBMC because it didn't force the update or something like that. Some silly UNIX-based mumbo-jumbo.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Just a quick (and belated) update, I did get the WD TV Live Plus. In the end, the external hard drive and network streaming support won me over. I like knowing that, if all else fails, I can stick a video file on an external drive and it'll work.

Which, by the way, is an important feature, since the streaming doesn't always work for me. Seems the WDTV's software has a problem that makes it unable to find network shares some of the time. Restarting my computer and the WDTV seems to fix it, but that's kind of a crappy thing to have to do just to watch a video file, especially since the WDTV's startup time is just as long if not longer than my computer's boot time.

Through Google searches, I've found plenty of people who have this problem, but not a whole lot of solutions. Lots of vague suggestions for things to try, no true solutions. Ideas have ranged from restarting your computer to editing registry entries on every Windows machine on your network to make your media server the "master" or something. I haven't tried that last one because it's kind of a pain in the ass, but I might do that tonight.

I also got a retired computer (for free) that I might turn into an HTPC. I like the WDTV though; other than the network share problem it works great. Huge improvement over the Xbox 360 - no more constant rebuffering in Netflix.

 

[Modelworks]

Which, by the way, is an important feature, since the streaming doesn't always work for me. Seems the WDTV's software has a problem that makes it unable to find network shares some of the time.

Here is the way to fix that for most people. On the pc that has the shares make a new user account. I made one called WDTV and I set the pass the same thing to keep it simple. Then I set the media shares to be shared with that user. On the live box set it to login with that pass and user. I have access to everything on my win7 pc after doing that and haven't had an issue in months. Where problems happen is if you try to put the live as anonymous login , seems to create issues in several different windows settings.

The other thing to watch out for is windows live. For some reason it screws up file sharing and not just on the live but any non windows 7 computer. MS says they know what the problem is and will issue a fix in the future but it has been months and no fix yet. If windows live is installed expect to have issues.

 

[Modelworks]

As far as the Roku, it doesn't look to offer as much as the WD Live in the way of local media streaming. It also does not natively support DTS or AC3 tracks, except to pass them through to a tv or receiver that supports them. I'll bet you can't use multi-channel .aac tracks, either. My biggest dissapointment is the bandwidth limitation of 8Mb/s with 12Mb/s peaks. That makes a BR Rip completely unplayable since most of them average aruond 20 and peak in the 30's. Even the promised 15Mb/s "upgrade" leaves you with unplayable rips because not only is the bitrate limitation too low, but it doesn't support MPEG-2 standard files like .m2ts and .vob. If you want a home library with original quality, the WD walks all over the Roku.

What I posted was based on information I had about the chipset , not about Roku's implementation. The good news is soon we should not have to rely on roku to make use of the chipset. There is a hobbyist development board coming out next month that will have all the hardware of the roku except the remote and the flash storage, this one uses sdcards, and will sell for $25. The software will be open source and already can run a port of XBMC. The board is tiny, has the sdcard slot and HDMI connector and with community support should be a good item.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/

 

[Capt Caveman]

fwiw - Roku XS is on sale for $75

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1122204/