Suggest the best gun for self protection

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exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Rack up another vote for the good old work horse, the Mossberg 500A 12ga. 18.5" is the legal minimum for a shotgun. You can also look into the 590 which has a 20" barrel and holds 9 rounds in the under barrel magazine tube which is as long as the barrel.

I am fond of Sig and H&K as my personal carry weapon is a H&K USP 40. But those are pretty expensive ($700+ new). Glock would probably be my next choice for balancing proven reliability with low cost. I'm also a proponent of hand gun calibers that start with a 4 or 357, though the 9mm is by no means a bad round. The .40 is particular effective because it balances the mass, momentum, and bore diameter of the .45 ACP with the high velocity and magazine capacity of the 9mm. It is the jack of all trades, master of none, to quote someone. A good all around general purpose and serious medium bore round.

A side note on the .40 is that it has one of the highest one shot stop rates in law enforcement for the same reason the .357 magnum is regarded as the best man stopper in the world: the flat nose causes a crush (as opposed to stretch) cavity that creates a large open wound channel on both sides instead of gently pushing aside and stretching tissues that later return to original position. Think of pushing a sharp spike through a brick of cheese (which seals up when you remove it) versus a blunt squared off dowel ?
Of course we are talking FMJ rounds; this unique feature of the .40 is removed when considering JHP.

I?ve also seen what .40 rounds do to 1/4? thick steel plate, and even if someone was wearing body armor they are going to feel it (2" diameter crater deformations from half to one full inch deep). But that is what the AR-10 is for (like AR-15 or M-16 but in the manly .308 caliber that can actually knock something over)

As another side note, DO NOT USE A RIFLE AS A FIRST CHOICE CLOSE QUARTERS HOME DEFENSE GUN! Even the smallest rifle round (with the exception of the .223 / 5.56mm which pretty much vaporizes on impact) will easily over penetrate the bad guy like he wasn't even there and go right on through your exterior walls; and still have much more power than a hand gun round!! In other words you could easily kill a bystander down the street, or even a family member on the other side of the house, destroy property, ie: the things you are trying to prevent in the first place!! The old mil surplus rifles you are talking about are even MORE powerful (.30-06, 7.62x54R, 6.5x55mm, 8mm mauser, etc) than a common .308 or .223. Not to mention maneuverability, time between shots if its a bolt action, and serviceability.

Personally I have one of everything, and once you get your first gun you are going to want them all, trust me on this. Just my thoughts; as always the best gun to get is the one that YOU can hit your target with consistently, whatever brand and caliber that may be (9mm MINIMUM hopefully).

Oh yeah, the handgun used by the US Military is the M9 otherwise known as the Beretta 92FS 9mm. Nice gun but a bit large and bulky for a 9mm in my opinion. But it does have a larger 5" barrel (most semi autos are 4 to 4.5") which helps some people aim better (the further the front and rear sights are apart and the smaller they are, the more precisely you can aim) not to mention the longer barrel will get the most out of the high preassure 9mm round, and recoild is more easily controlled due to the larger gun having a more forward moment of inertia, etc.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
As far as kids are concerned....

Why hide it? Let them know about it, take them out shooting with you and teach them proper firearm handling from the beginning. Making a big secret ordeal about it will only invite curiosity. Your loaded gun for home defense and carry should be on you or in a secure location at all times of course.

I know kids who are as young as five that have been shooting and clearly understand the difference between real guns and toys and feelings versus actions. Of course these kids have some really devoted parents that don?t let cartoons and cell phones raise their kids ...
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Originally posted by: exdeath
As far as kids are concerned....

Why hide it? Let them know about it, take them out shooting with you and teach them proper firearm handling from the beginning. Making a big secret ordeal about it will only invite curiosity. Your loaded gun for home defense and carry should be on you or in a secure location at all times of course.

I know kids who are as young as five that have been shooting and clearly understand the difference between real guns and toys and feelings versus actions. Of course these kids have some really devoted parents that don?t let cartoons and cell phones raise their kids ...

Riiight. Try doing that with a 3 year old. :roll:

I will teach my son about guns and take him shooting if he is interested in it when the time is right. I'm thinking 10 years old or so would be appropriate to start him off with a .22.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Originally posted by: NickelTitanium
I live in Socal. What is best (hot deal) place to buy a new handgun or shotgun? This is not a joke.

Thanks.

Turners Outdoorsman.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: exdeath
As far as kids are concerned....

Why hide it? Let them know about it, take them out shooting with you and teach them proper firearm handling from the beginning. Making a big secret ordeal about it will only invite curiosity. Your loaded gun for home defense and carry should be on you or in a secure location at all times of course.

I know kids who are as young as five that have been shooting and clearly understand the difference between real guns and toys and feelings versus actions. Of course these kids have some really devoted parents that don?t let cartoons and cell phones raise their kids ...

Riiight. Try doing that with a 3 year old. :roll:

I will teach my son about guns and take him shooting if he is interested in it when the time is right. I'm thinking 10 years old or so would be appropriate to start him off with a .22.

I began teaching my daughter what a gun was when she was 2. By 4 she knew to come running to an adult whenever she saw one. In fact, she used to walk into the room and see one on tv and immediately come stand next to me to tell me. It doesn't take much to educate children, they're naturally open to learning.

You can reasonably start letting them shoot by age 8, depenind on individual development. It helps negate the mystique of firearms, which aids in safety education.

I conducted experiments with my own daughter over the years, by leaving my guns around (always COMPLETELY unfirable) and seeing if she ever touched them (on video). By age 6 she never once failed to notice a gun in the house, and told me immediately EVERY time if it was out. In fact, even when I wasn't home she'd immediately tell the babysitter (who was in on it). My daughter is 9 now and I'm fairly confident about her caution. I don't leave my guns out and loaded...it's either on me or in it's box, or put away unloaded. When other kids come over we have to talk of course, and I always talk with the parents.

My opinion is that I don't give a damn if they're interested or not, they WILL learn what a gun is and how to safely handle one, if only to increase the likelihood of their surviving to adulthood. We teach kids about sex, about drugs, about safe driving...firearm education should be just as fundamental.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Riiight. Try doing that with a 3 year old.

I will teach my son about guns and take him shooting if he is interested in it when the time is right. I'm thinking 10 years old or so would be appropriate to start him off with a .22.


10!!! pfft. My 9 yr old bagged the limit (12 birds) with his .410 last fall. I don't have a set age policy, i think it depends on interst and marturity of child. Some adults should'nt even have guns. That said 7 is about when I let them come along and fire a few rounds

PS I was shooting a 12Ga "john wayne style" at 10.
 

hondAS2ooo170

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
451
0
0
here is another thing with a person having a gun.... Can they fire it when the time comes to use it? lol it would be useless if the owner cant fire the thing.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Originally posted by: Zebo
Riiight. Try doing that with a 3 year old.

I will teach my son about guns and take him shooting if he is interested in it when the time is right. I'm thinking 10 years old or so would be appropriate to start him off with a .22.


10!!! pfft. My 9 yr old bagged the limit (12 birds) with his .410 last fall. I don't have a set age policy, i think it depends on interst and marturity of child. Some adults should'nt even have guns. That said 7 is about when I let them come along and fire a few rounds

PS I was shooting a 12Ga "john wayne style" at 10.

Well, obviously it depends on interest and maturity...:roll: Thank you captain obvious.
 

h3nG

Senior member
Jan 2, 2003
212
0
0
lol...the best gun for protecting your family is no gun.

do you live in a neighborhood that require one? i would take extra measures by purchasing an alarm system, and taking proper measures in preventing the burgler in the house...as oppose to worrying about what to do when a buglar does get in. if you want to protect your family, surrendering is probably best. if you want to protect your materials, a gun would work better...ifyou know how to use it.
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
2
0
Originally posted by: h3nG
lol...the best gun for protecting your family is no gun.

do you live in a neighborhood that require one? i would take extra measures by purchasing an alarm system, and taking proper measures in preventing the burgler in the house...as oppose to worrying about what to do when a buglar does get in. if you want to protect your family, surrendering is probably best. if you want to protect your materials, a gun would work better...ifyou know how to use it.

I believe that concept has been throughly owned about eight times already in this thread, but good try. :roll:

Now since you're busy being all compliant, lower your pants and touch your toes - I'm gonna show you where the wild goose goes.

- M4H
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Originally posted by: h3nG
lol...the best gun for protecting your family is no gun.

do you live in a neighborhood that require one? i would take extra measures by purchasing an alarm system, and taking proper measures in preventing the burgler in the house...as oppose to worrying about what to do when a buglar does get in. if you want to protect your family, surrendering is probably best. if you want to protect your materials, a gun would work better...ifyou know how to use it.
What does the criminal have to fear if all the families he victimizes cower before him? Nothing. What does an alarm system do? Nothing. What does an 6" steel door and walled-over windows do? Not much, because the door must eventually open.
 

MiniDoom

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2004
5,307
0
71
Originally posted by: h3nG
lol...the best gun for protecting your family is no gun.

do you live in a neighborhood that require one? i would take extra measures by purchasing an alarm system, and taking proper measures in preventing the burgler in the house...as oppose to worrying about what to do when a buglar does get in. if you want to protect your family, surrendering is probably best. if you want to protect your materials, a gun would work better...ifyou know how to use it.

Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny to?
 

Metron

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2003
1,163
0
0
Coming in late on the topic here... only read the first page of responses, but I thought I'd offer my perspective. I highly recommend you and your family to take training courses in handling a firearm. Get a gun safe, or at least trigger locks to keep them out of reach of children.

I agree with responses for a shotgun, but with a twist. A blast from a shotgun shell is very effective at close range, and yet is not as likely to penetrate one (or more) walls and injure your family or neighbors. The disadvantage is that a shotgun is typically long and unwieldy. A sawed-off shotgun would be ideal, but to own one is illegal without a Federal Class C firearms license.

You can purchase a short barrelled shotgun ( I believe the legal limit is an 18" barrel ) with a folding stock or pistol grip, but I have a better alternative. Purchase a .44 magnum Revolver with a 4 or 6 inch barrel, like the Ruger RedHawk... and load it with .44 shot shells. These are essentially shotgun shells made from a .44 cartridge. For comparison, a 12 gauge shotgun shell is essentially the same size as a .50 caliber shell.

You'll have a LEGAL, compact 6-shot shotgun... which is essentially the same size as a sawed-off shotgun.
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
A 20 gauge Mossberg 500 Cruiser or Persuader, 18.5" barrel, loaded with Winchester Super-X buckshot.

Why????
1. The 20 with the 18.5 barrel is easy to maneuver, and is more controllable than a 12.
2. When you are awaken in the middle of the night, in a stressful situation... the shotgun is will find its target much easier than a single slug from a pistol.
3. The Super-X buck is less likely to travel through the wall, killing or wounding your neighbor than a pistol round.
4. Nobody will want to advance in the face of 20 pellets per shot coming at them. Especially if they are hit with 5-10 pellets each time the weapon is fired.
5. Higher velocity pistol slugs can go through a person, sometimes with them not even knowing they've been hit.
 

Fingers

Platinum Member
Sep 4, 2000
2,188
0
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt


The .45 won't knock someone down with inertia, but the combined trauma of the impact plus the wound should pause them for a while. Remember, the .45 came about as a way to fix the problems the military experienced with the .38, namely that it was taking too many shots with the .38 to stop advancing enemies. The .45 was designed to inflict far more damage.
ZV

The rounds that caused the most trauma were the high velocity rounds. They demonstrated on watermelons and water ballons the effects of the bullets hitting them. They were showing that the bullet "poking" the hole through someone isn't what causes the majority of the damage, it's the rapid expansion of liquid in your body which tears the surrounding flesh. The subsonic rounds on guns like the .45 and 9mm mainly passed through the object with some damage from the surrounding liquid, but the supersonic rounds such as the 44 magnum would cause the balloons and watermelons to explode. And the rifle rounds such as the .223 just vaporized the watermelons due to the hydrodynamic shock.

Getting hit with a tiny .223 bullet would cause the most blood loss out of any of the reviewed guns on there due to that reason. This effectiveness is also the reason why nearly every military in the world is switching to this type of round . The US changed from .30 to .223, NATO switched to SS109 which is .223, and even Russia switched from the AK-47's 7.62x39 to the AK-74's 5.45x39 round. Velocity kills.


Yes velocity does kill, and like you said it doesn't have much of any effect on a handgun round because most of all hangun rounds are slow enough to not have enough velocity for that effect to take place. Therefore in talk regarding effectiveness of handguns in particular the caliber will have the most significant effect on the target.

Do a search on google for .45 balistics and you will come accross some leangthy and informative ballistic reports (one done by the FBI) that will cover the lower velocity rounds much better. I've read in one of those articles that even a very large man if shot center of mass with a .45 and a major artery was hit that under almost all circumstances he would pass out from blood loss within 10 seconds.

As far as the .223 goes I agree at closer ranges the temporary cavitation that the velocity causes does significant damage but the velocity is only aproximately 500 FPS more than the 30-06 round used in the M1 garand although it has about 1000FPS more than the .308 which is a crappy cartridge design if you ask me.

I think the .223 was developed more for the cost of such a small round and the ability to carry more shots than it was for knock down power. You arn't even allowed to use a .223 to go deer hunting because it is considered unhumane.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: exdeath
As far as kids are concerned....

Why hide it? Let them know about it, take them out shooting with you and teach them proper firearm handling from the beginning. Making a big secret ordeal about it will only invite curiosity. Your loaded gun for home defense and carry should be on you or in a secure location at all times of course.

I know kids who are as young as five that have been shooting and clearly understand the difference between real guns and toys and feelings versus actions. Of course these kids have some really devoted parents that don?t let cartoons and cell phones raise their kids ...

Riiight. Try doing that with a 3 year old. :roll:

I will teach my son about guns and take him shooting if he is interested in it when the time is right. I'm thinking 10 years old or so would be appropriate to start him off with a .22.

Every kid is different of course.

The particular child I am referring to was about 4 at the time and loved playing Rogue Spear on the LAN with us on weekends, and was about as blood thirsty and violent as any little boy playing video games. (HAH F**K YOU Brady, Feinstein, Boxer, Clinton). But when he sees one of us carrying, or sees a holstered weapon sitting on a table, he doesn't grab it and play with it. When he is curious he asks an adult if he can handle it and treats real guns with reverence and caution. He clearly knows the difference between fun and games and real life at his young age.

I still wouldn?t leave loaded weapons out in plain sight and in view though, that?s just common sense.
 

MooseKnuckle

Golden Member
Oct 24, 1999
1,392
0
0
Take the NRA's BASIC PISTOL, HOME FIREARM SAFETY and PERSONAL PROTECTION courses; then choose your weapon. IMO, there is no better weapon for personal defense than a full-size 1911. No, I'm not ex-military or a crazy gun nut; I'm an established shooter who has bought and sold more guns than he'd like to admit because they just didn't fit. Any gun of personal protection caliber, handgun or shotgun is going through a wall period... That's not the issue, it's choosing a gun you're comfortable with and that you can shoot accurately under stress. I have a Mossberg pistol grip shotgun for the home, but it's not my go to gun during "trouble". My house layout is such that a handgun is more favorable for cover and concealment than a shotgun. When you find the right gun, you'll know and then practice, practice and practice. One thing that wasn't mentioned in the long winded thread, the gun by your bed should have it's OWN magazine for just that purpose, it's not your daily carry mag for obvious reasons. Good Luck in your selection.
 

Promethply

Golden Member
Mar 28, 2005
1,741
0
76
For home defense, a sawed off pump action 12 gauge shotgun

Urban setting, the standard US army issue 9mm Beretta

Country setting, the Steyr Stg.77 AUG assault rifle
 

Slickone

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 1999
6,120
0
0
What are the chances of me finding a good cheap used handgun online? They're just too expensive for me in the stores and I don't want some PoS that's gonna mis/backfire/jam.
Can they be shipped in the mail?
 
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