Suggestions for a 2 channel receiver and mid-hight quality floorstanding speakers?

[Smoolean]

Hello everyone,

I *think* I'm in the market for two floorstanding speakers and a simple 2 channel stereo receiver. I believe I want a traditional setup - I don't need a sub. I mention that I "think" that's what I'm in the market for - but I'm not quite sure. I'll describe my situation and am open to any and all suggestions.

For the past few years I've been getting my audio fill with a digital audio converter (uDAC-2) hookeed up to my PC running into Sennheiser 558 headphones. It sounds amazing to my ears, but I'm definitely ready for speakers as headphones can never do what speakers can offer

So I mentioned the Sennheiser 558 headphones which hints at the sound signature I'm after. I'm definitely not a bass head that wants gobs of artificially exaggerated bass, but I do want a solid low end to feel full, warm, smooth, a fair bit impactful.

Obviously, who doesn't prefer clear highs, but I believe Sennheiser is known for "rounding off" the highs a tiny bit, and I like that. Nothing too shrill. The Sony MDR-V6 headphones feature highs that are too fatiguing for me (sorry for all the headphone references!).

I guess I'm a big "mids" guy. I value vocals, instruments etc... That said, I do not want an anemic low-end, just something that sounds full and mature.

So I was originally looking into studio monitors to hook up to my uDac and play music through my PC... things like the Audio Engine A5+, etc... where they are self powered and super easy to setup. But then I realized, I've more or less been there, and done that with previous computer speakers. My entire life I've always wanted a legitmate stereo system so I figured why not jump into that now.

I don't have anywhere to place bookshelf speakers, so I'm looking to place floorstatnding speakers on either side of my home office. I'm looking to plug these two speakers into a traditional receiver. I'm not a big tv or movie guy, so I don't want a home theater receiver, I'd rather have the money that goes into the receiver go into quality power delivery / sound etc... instead of video components and extra features etc...

I found the "Onkyo TX-8255" receiver which looks like it might fit my needs. It's supposed to be pretty traditional - just 2 channel and focuses on the basics.

My question is - if I went with the Onkyo 8255 what type of speakers would I need to limit myself to? For example - would the Onkyo only provide enough power for a certain "quality level" of speakers?

I don't liste to my music incredibly loud - but I do want exceptional sound quality - so I'm not sure how big of a role power delivery / statistics are.

For example - I am interested in speakers such as:

- Polk Audio TSi500
- Klipsch RF-52 II Reference (or even the 82s)

Would the Onkyo 8255 be able to power these and sound exceptional (I realize that is a subjective word - I mean as well as you can expect these speakers to sound while being powererd by a non audiophile receiver)?

If the speakers mention they are rated at 150 RMS W, and the Onkyo says 50 per channel will that sound good or is that not an acceptable match?

The Onkyo mentions:

Stereo RMS Power: 50W per channel x 2, into 8 ohms
Dynamic Range: 135W per channel x 2, into 2 ohms, 105W per channel x 2, into 4 ohms, 70W per channel x 2, into 8 ohms

I'm a complete rookie when it comes to watt matching knowledge. My question is, if I'm interested in powering a decent set of floorstanding speakers, such as the PA TSI500 or Klipsch RF-52 (or 82) how powerful of a receiver do I need? When I said "need" I mean letting the speakers reach at least 85% or more of their potential?

I'm open to all receiver suggestions but also all speaker suggestions.

Thank you so much for any and all help.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Wattage is one of the most lied-about (by manufacturers) and misunderstood concepts in audio. I'm not saying that I understand it completely myself, but I think it's safe to say that if you do not plan on playing your music very loud (100+ dB) then you will not have a problem with that combination. That receiver ought to be capable of a solid 50W. Wattage markings on speakers are mostly recommendations, and as long as you are below the top mark then you are going to be ok.

The Polk TSi500's are rated at 91dB. These ratings are made at 1W (and 1 meter of distance from the speaker). The dB level goes up by 3dB for each doubling of power. 2W=94dB, 4W=97dB, 8W = 100dB, 16W = 103dB, 32W = 106dB, 64W = 109dB. (I would bet that the 50W rated Onkyo could probably hit 64W easily, maybe even 80+ Watts.) So as long as you are not wanting to listen at somewhat-painful levels routinely, you will be fine.

Where damage comes in, is when you are playing a system very loud, and something comes in that is louder than the amp can actually play. This is called "clipping" because if you picture a sound wave like a sine curve, the tops and bottoms are clipped off because they've hit the maximum power. This creates audible distortion, and it can also ruin speakers.

The other thing to be aware of is the room interaction, which is something that you do not get at all from headphones. As I said, at 6W you will get 100dB from a Polk TSi500 (from each speaker) if you were sitting 1 meter away. The loudness falls off the further away you sit. Certain frequencies may be attenuated or boosted depending on room modes, the exact placement of your speakers, and the exact place where you sit.

Moving on a bit to some specifics... you say you like "laid back" treble, I think you will like the sound from the Polks rather than the Klipsches. The Polks have a soft dome tweeter (made of silk) while the Klipsches have titanium domes. Metallic tweeters are often more capable of hitting the ultrasonic frequencies and sounding "foward" in the highs. Not to mention that Klipsch adds a horn in front of those tweeters! Horns can be great for specific applications, but IMO they are generally too much for most home applications. Especially since you are going to be sitting pretty close to them.

Also, you say you really like strong mids, I would go with the Polks here as well, especially over the Klipsch 82's (but the 52's would be ok). An 8" woofer mated to a 1" tweeter just leaves too much room in between, where the midrange can't be treated correctly. The 5"-6" woofer range is ideal for a 2-way system like this. But having 4 drivers in the Polks vs. 2 in the Klipsches, I think the Polks win when it comes to providing the low end.

**I wrote the two paragaphs below before I read the part where you said you were going to use this in an office environment where I presume the towers are going to basically be on either side of your desk while you work. This stuff still applies, but it will not be as important. This is the difference between "near field" monitors and normal loudspeakers. In a normal room, you are going to have significant contributions from room reflections. When you are sitting very close to the speakers, a primacy effect occurs where your mind prioritizes the direct sound from the speakers because A) it will be considerably louder than any reflections, and B) it will reach your ears much sooner than any reflections. You may still need to do some treatments (particularly for the bass) but it will not be as much of an issue.

The components that you have picked out are solid, but for a really good listening experience, you are going to have to learn a lot about acoustics and room treatments. avsforum.com has a ton of info on this. A lot of the treatment items can be homemade. Of course, there are also processor/equalizer systems that you can add into the audio signal path to compensate for room interactions. A home theater receiver will have one of these built-in, often under the brand name Audyssey. These work by placing a microphone at different positions in the room, running bursts of pink noise, and analyzing the overall system response (source + speakers + room) and creating an adjustment curve to compensate for whatever it finds. You can also do this manually with an old-school graphic equalizer, an SPL meter, a signal generator (a PC works fine) and some spare time to test the system by playing different frequencies and plotting them on a graph. The room compensation processing in a modern home-theater receiver is the only reason why I would recommend one over the stereo receiver that you are looking at.

But you can do a lot with room treatments. Most rooms need a basic treatment for bass absorption in the corners. Also, a room can be too "dead" (lots of carpet, drapes, etc.) or "alive" (bare floors, walls, windows) creating either too little or too much reverberation. Again, you can make cheap treatments for both that will help considerably, without having to screw around with the signal path. But you are never going to be able to isolate particular frequencies with room treatments.

 

[Smoolean]

@slashbinslashbash - thank you so much for the wealth of information. Also thanks for the insight on the Polk vs Klipsch sound signature differences. Based on the details you mentioned I definitely agree that I would prefer Polk. Like you mentioned, wattage is a very misunderstood concept but thanks to your post I feel like I understand the basics now. Thanks again!

 

[Trente]

How much money are you willing to spend?

 

[SlickSnake]

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=HK%203490-Z&status=

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=HK 3490&status=

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=HK 3390&status=

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I love Harman Kardon and Infinity gear. Refurbs have full factory warranties, too.

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[Number1]

A 2.0 receiver won't have half the features and won't sound any better than a comparably priced 5.1 receiver.
Important features like Audyssey automatic speakers calibration are only available on high end 2.0 receivers but widely available on even the low end Denon receivers and will make all the difference in the world in the way your sound system sound.

And all 5.1 or 7.1 receivers can be configured to use 2 speakers.

Save money on the receiver and spend it on higher end speakers.