suggestions for a switch?

Smokey0066

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
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currently I've got a linksys router and a linksys switch ontop of that. the little blue boxes. I don't want to pickup another blue box to stack ontop of this because its starting to look ghetto and sloppy. Plus the additional switch will need another plug in.

Anyways I need more capacity to support my network at home. I'm sick of having to switch between what is plugged into my network because of the lack of space on my switch. I need all the rooms of my house to be plugged in with room for expansion.

I'm interested in recomendations on a 16+ port switch. It doesn't have to be gigabit but its a nice feature to have.

One question that came to mind during my looking is the difference between managed and unmanaged switches? I don't have alot of experience with networking but I'm learning. I just put up my file server and will soon be setitng up an FTP as well.

Thanks
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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Smokey0066, SMC makes good switches.

Gigabit is great and all, but 16+ port gigabit switches are pricey. If you don't know that you need it, just pick up a 16 or 24 port 10/100 switch. If 24 is just a little bit more expensive, get it (more ports=good).

Managed is good in a business setting - more features, separation (usually VLANs now), security, and ability to debug things. For a home network, again, if you don't know that you need it, just pick up an unmanaged switch.

Here's a suggestion:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833129010

(I don't know what the Newegg review complainer's problem was. I've had SMC replace switches that were years old and way out of production, they have a lifetime warranty and they really honor it in my experience. Much better than other consumer-grade folks!)
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Suggestion, not a recommendation because I have no personal experience -- Dell 2716. All gigabit, 16 ports, passively cooled, web-managed, probably the cheapest such one; often further discounted. Another suggestion: Give it a good run-through when you get it -- some report high infant mortality.
 

ktwebb

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 1999
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300 bucks new. Hard to imagine you really need a managed switch for home use. Certainly possible you could use the functionality if you need shaping or throttling capabilities, something like that. Assuming that Dell has these features. But by and large this would be unecessary overkill for most.
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: ktwebb
300 bucks new.

Mislead much? Current price is $188 USD (and you can probably find similar or better deals quite regularly on that), which is quite competitive with many unmanaged 16-port GbE switches.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/...s&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=pct2716&s=bsd
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...%3A20688%2C1502%3A16764%2C1502%3A10242

To be clear: I'm not by any means "pushing" this switch. I think it's something to be aware of to consider.
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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Madwand1, you forgot to mention my favorite features of the Dell 27xx switches: significantly less than line-rate performance, frequent crashes, and Indian tech support!
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: cmetz
Madwand1, you forgot to mention my favorite features of the Dell 27xx switches: significantly less than line-rate performance...

I think you can pretty much write-off tech support for this class of switches, esp. from the likes of Dell, etc., and these prices. They either "work" or you RMA, etc., nobody's going to spend the time/money to deal with networking issues at this price point that I know of.

SMC didn't even write back to me confirming whether or not a particular switch I was interested in supported 9K jumbo frames. Their web sites say little/nothing about the particular frame sizes supported.. I've learned enough to not take this stuff on faith anymore.

I wouldn't neglect performance issues had I seen them and I don't assert anything about its performance, because I'd have to see that for myself, but I still find it somewhat hard to believe that they'd specifically market a less-than-wire-speed switch in this day & age, when $40 consumer switches can do this. They say "wire-speed" on the spec sheets; I'd expect them to be able to back that up.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/pr....aspx/pwcnt_2716?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

Delivers full wire-speed switching across all ports and web-managed features

I'd like to hear the details -- under which conditions and to what degree was performance loss seen? What did Dell say about it?

Originally posted by: cmetz
...frequent crashes...

Managed or unmanaged? Under tricky conditions or something one might even encounter at home?

But ok, I think I've heard enough. I'm backing off on this switch, at least until I see one for myself, if ever.
 

Smokey0066

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
488
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thank you cmetz. I'm seriously considering the SMC switch. great price for 24 ports.

I don't have any need for gigabit at the moment. my fileserver, since it is new, is the only device that has gigabit support at the moment. and i dont plan on upgrading any thing else since all is fine and dandy.

thanks a bunch.
 

saabman

Member
Apr 12, 2006
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cmetz,

I just bought the 8 port mgd version of this Dell 27xx switch for home use ($76).

Could you elaborate (point me to more info) on the crashing and less than wire speed performance articles/references ?

Wonder who the original OEM was for this hardware ? I know Compaq inherited a bunch of Digital network hardware a number of years ago when DEC ceased.
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: saabman
Wonder who the original OEM was for this hardware ? I know Compaq inherited a bunch of Digital network hardware a number of years ago when DEC ceased.

SMC and Dell switches used to be from the same OEM -- Accton, which is SMC's parent.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdpcm/is_200305/ai_ziff40802

Perhaps some of them still are?

I think the lower-end ones are from Delta Networks Inc. though.

http://www.dninetworks.com/prod_lan_feature.asp?id=115
http://www.dninetworks.com/prod_lan_feature.asp?id=114
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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saabman, the Dell 27xx switches' web UI is a bit fragile, it's not too hard to wedge it so that it won't work anymore, it'll connect but not do anything. Once in this state, it's not too hard to cause the whole switch to lock up and die. This has happened to me a few times in production environments where people were just trying to configure the switch, so I imagine that someone who was malicious and trying to cause trouble would be able to pretty easily.

I do believe that Dell says that the 27xx switches are wire speed. That is not what my testing shows. I have never had any interactions with a Dell employee or contractor who I think would know the difference, so it's not even worth discussing with them. All Dell does is resell Chinese networking gear, they don't do engineering and they sure aren't willing or able to fix anything. It's like telling the customer service desk at Wal-Mart that a product's labelling makes false claims.

Madwand1, you don't get to a really low price point without making some cost optimizations (a polite way of saying cutting corners). For a 10/100 switch, it's pretty easy to deliver wire speed performance, and most switches sold today do just fine at that. For a gigabit switch, esp. 16-24 ports, it does require a bit more horsepower and SRAM to build a true wire-speed switch... and most customers won't know the difference.

When folks who deal with carrier-grade equipment say "wire-speed" or "full line-rate" that means a specific set of tough conditions are met (basically, it ain't never droppin' a packet). When the marketing department of a low-cost PC reseller who dabbles at reselling Chinese switches says "wire-speed"... what does that mean?

I don't understand the Chinese business landscape very well, but I do know that a lot of the Chinese/Taiwanese companies are interrelated in various and complex ways; the Accton/SMC family is huge and seems to have a hand in everything. It would not surprise me if DNI is interrelated with Accton/SMC. The key here is that Dell is simply reselling Chinese gear based on commodity chipsets and running Chinese software. Dell might do some product evaluation before stamping their logo on it, but they don't design it and they don't fix it.

Again, it's like Wal-Mart; they're just a very efficient reseller. You can get some great deals there, but you have to be a very savvy shopper and you have to suck up that you're going to get lousy customer service on cheap things. If you're not a savvy shopper, don't be surprised if you get ripped off.

Some of the switches that Dell has sold have been great buys. I really liked the 33xx series switches, for example. Some of the switches that Dell sells now are really crap. The 27xx switches in particular have given me a lot of grief. It's about time for a big networking product refresh from Dell, and I don't know whether the next generation will be great or mediocre... and either is as likely as the other. That's the thing with low-cost gear and low-cost vendors - just look over at Hot Deals. You have to do a lot of research and work to get the best for the least.
 

Smokey0066

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
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cmetz. I know this is overkill but my buddy recomended that I pick up a Nortel Baystack 450 off ebay.

Any comments on Nortel switches?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Smokey0066
cmetz. I know this is overkill but my buddy recomended that I pick up a Nortel Baystack 450 off ebay.

Any comments on Nortel switches?

Ancient hunks of crap. Cmetz can chime in but those things are ancient. I'd actually put a decent SOHO switch up against those things.
 

saabman

Member
Apr 12, 2006
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I was in the business of evaluating silicon chipsets (Broadcom, TI, Intel) for Chineese switches, selling and OEMing said switches in the USA market a number of years ago.

Some of the Acton switches made it into CIsco as OEM products. Not all of these switches are crap, as many used the some of the same core ASICs for the switch fabric as the more expensive switches. Since I've been out of the business for the last 6 years, it's harder for me to know what's good enough.

I will check to see what the Dell 27xx mgmt is like, but since it's behind a m0n0wall firewall, I'm less concerned about hacking.
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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Smokey0066, the Nortel 450s are in that special class of devices I truly and deeply hate. They have this nasty habit of simply forgetting their configurations for no reason. You can imagine what this does to a production network. Oh, and Nortel's tech support charges hundreds of dollars just to talk with you at all, and is completely incapable of fixing any problems with this switch - which they will admit only after charging you (no refunds either).

If I see Nortel 450s in a network, no kidding, either they're leaving or I'm leaving. There are only a few products I feel so strongly about (that have burned me that badly).

saabman, if your 27xx has an IP address and you get a virus that sprays traffic, that's a problem. Just because you have a firewall doesn't mean you are protected against broken gear causing you trouble.
 

saabman

Member
Apr 12, 2006
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My original search was for an unmanaged gigabit switch (which this Dell 27xx should do OK as). Since this is a home network it shouldn't be a big deal, the mgmt capability was only a freebie from my perspective.

cmetz, thanks for the heads-up on this Dell model.
 

Smokey0066

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
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haha thanks guys.

i'll probably stick with the SMC as suggested. I don't need to or want to mess with the config of the switch but I figured I'd ask since I trust my buddy for advice as well.

smokey
 
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