Suicide; Selfish or Not?

[SMOGZINN]

Of course it is selfish. In fact I can think of nothing more selfish.
But sometimes it is okay to be selfish. There is a limit to how much we owe other people, and I think that our life itself is definitely something that others can't ask of us.

So, while most of the time I think suicide is stupid, there is just so many other solutions that should be tried first, I also think that ultimately we must each make the decision to live or die on our own.

 

[Humpy]

It's selfish if you shoot yourself in your roommates nice living room and leave it to them to sponge your brain matter off the window sill so the security deposit will be returned and throw away the new couch that didn't belong to you.

It's not only selfish but a bitch-ass move when it was your whore girlfriend you should have been mad at, not your bros.

 

[mnewsham]

It's selfish if you shoot yourself in your roommates nice living room and leave it to them to sponge your brain matter off the window sill so the security deposit will be returned and throw away the new couch that didn't belong to you.

It's not only selfish but a bitch-ass move when it was your whore girlfriend you should have been mad at, not your bros.

This is why I promote inert gas asphyxiation, cheap, easy, and painless. No real mess either. If you're gonna go, why not go relatively peacefully is my thought on the matter.

 

[Imp]

Depends on a number of things like dependents, how you go out, etc.

It's a "stupid" act, but I can see why one would do it though.

 

[jagec]

Of course it's selfish. Depression and suicidal thoughts are the mirror image of narcissism: instead of constantly thinking about how great you are, you constantly think about how much you suck. Other people only enter into your world as props to relay that message.

That doesn't mean that you can just turn off those thoughts in an instant, though. It's a rough path.

 

[Exophase]

Of course it's selfish. Depression and suicidal thoughts are the mirror image of narcissism: instead of constantly thinking about how great you are, you constantly think about how much you suck. Other people only enter into your world as props to relay that message.

That doesn't mean that you can just turn off those thoughts in an instant, though. It's a rough path.

There are a LOT of thoughts that might be going through the head of a suicidal person. It is not at all limited to being consumed with thoughts of how much they suck.

I have a good feeling that for most of the people in this thread there exists a situation they could be put into where they no longer want to live. Various mental conditions can screw around with this threshold, including to the point where external conditions are irrelevant.

 

[Attic]

There's so many reasons that one would consider doing it, it's impossible to paint with a broad brush.

I personally think that euthanasia for terminally ill is terribly supported by this country. We'll stick grandma or grandpa in an ICU for weeks while they are essentially living off of machines while we stand at the bedside squabbling over what to do. Meanwhile they are there in misery and costing 10's of thousands of dollars a day to support them. Let them end things comfortably on their own terms. It's just one step away from hospice services. Keeping them alive is selfish rather than letting them die in peace and dignity.

If somebody has a chronic addiction that no amount of support or treatment can help, who am I to judge them for permanently solving their problems. In the long term their family is probably safer, more financially secure, and no longer has to worry about the next time they relapse.

And then you get into the whole issue of mental health and the complexities of the mind that you just simply can't comprehend unless your mind has been there.

Mental health help is terribly inaccessible in this country compared to other issues. I have a daughter with fairly significant behavioral issues. She was getting kicked out school for behavior problems and it was escalating out of control. I put in a call for help to my primary care physician in the first week of February. I couldn't even get in for an initial consult with a child psychologist until the middle of May. 3 full months later and basically at the end of the school year. For a kid that was clearly struggling.

Now if I had sore knee I'd be in for an MRI and having an orthopedic guy reviewing it later that day if I wanted. Such a disparity in care.

People that need help are labeled in ways that are not conductive, and access to the care that they may need is very hard to get. We are a society that picks apart everyone and everything. You are constantly under a microscope. It's not an easy life if something in your brain isn't firing exactly right.

Nice thoughts here. The stigma of mental health is a problem, hopefully RW's death dissolves some of that and folks can get better access to care and treatment with mental health related issues.

When we are in pain, we want relief. I don't believe relief = nothing. So the heartbreaking thing to me about suicides is that it's not a viable solution. It's like a trick, a gotcha. I think relief is more than the absence of everything. Spiritually suicide may be real relief, but I'm not sure, I think our human form requires relief in human form tbh. I can see how suicide is a logical choice to someone in emotional/mental pain though.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Seems pretty selfish to me. The vast majority of suicides happen because through whatever means (drugs, depression, mental illness, etc) a person comes to the point where life seems too painful to continue living. That is entirely a personal problem involving that one individual. They think they are curing their own misery for good, and they are not swayed by the effect it has on other people. It isn't about making someone's life better or saving someone else by taking your own life, it's all about your pain and your inability to cope with it all. If the act is done for completely selfish reasons then it is a selfish act.

This is not to say that people don't have the right to be selfish. Just because you may not necessarily be able to blame someone for committing suicide doesn't mean you have to consider it a virtuous act though.

 

[DrPizza]

I don't want to start a separate topic about this, but I wonder if the way the recent suicide was reported on will have a positive or negative effect on others considering doing the same - will more people get helped in the near future? Or will the number of suicide cases briefly go up? I didn't major in psychology in college (hence why I'm gainfully employed ), but I do recall from some research I read that the manner by which it's reported on in local cases can very often result in a sudden spike in suicides. Hence why the suicide aspect is mostly not reported about in the press for local cases such as teens hanging themselves over stupid shit like breaking up with a girlfriend. And, that's why, with that aspect of it being constant discussed in the press, I wonder which way it will affect the suicide rate.

Unfortunately, my gut feeling is that it will increase. For someone going through depression, the prospect of going out, and having everyone finally accept you and talk kindly about you after your death... doesn't that incentivise it a bit?

 

[Exophase]

Seems pretty selfish to me. The vast majority of suicides happen because through whatever means (drugs, depression, mental illness, etc) a person comes to the point where life seems too painful to continue living. That is entirely a personal problem involving that one individual.

Well okay, in that sense, eating a sandwich is selfish, it's more or less addressing a personal problem only involving that individual.

Usually, when people use the word selfish they mean something more than simply acting out of self interest, but that you've crossed a point where you're disproportionately sacrificing the interest of others.

 

[mmntech]

I've tried to see it from the other side, people who claim it isn't selfish. However, I just don't buy their argument. Maybe it's because I'm profoundly ignorant about mental health issues. It's just the burden you leave on those you leave behind is so great. Your family and friends who grieve for you and now have to plan a funeral, the person who has to find you.

There's always help out there, no matter how bad things get. You're selfish if you don't at least attempt to seek it out.

 

[Mermaidman]

. . . the burden you leave on those you leave behind is so great. Your family and friends who grieve for you and now have to plan a funeral, the person who has to find you.

There's always help out there, no matter how bad things get. You're selfish if you don't at least attempt to seek it out.

When someone suffers from mental illness, he is not thinking correctly. You cannot expect someone who is going to kill himself to consider all those things you listed. "Not of sound mind."

I've tried to see it from the other side . . .

I think that's the problem for us people who have not experienced truly suicidal thoughts. Can we really "see it from the other side?"

 

[nickbits]

It is selfish but it is more selfish for other people to expect them to live when they've had enough. Net result--not selfish.

 

[bradley]

Life itself is inherently selfish. It's actually the more "selfish" act how disproportionately people care *after* someone dies. Otherwise very few will ever care (give a damn) about the *living* you. Best you will ever get is lip-service.

Always make yourself the number one priority. Make provisions for the people who did care for the living you. Then I have no problem with people being in control of their own destiny, whether in life or death.

Anyhow, I'd imagine many who commit suicide don't want to die; they actually have just forgotten how to live.

 

[SandEagle]

selfish. a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

[solsa]

CONTEXT, where is it?

yes, it actually depends.

 

[Clinkster]

It's circumstantial, though I would imagine that usually it is a selfish decision. Nothing wrong with that though...

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I think expecting a person to suffer through life when they clearly don't want to is what's selfish. A person is the captain of his/her own life, they are entitled to live as they choose and to die how they choose. Suicide stigma is purely cultural, here it's considered taboo while in other cultures it's considered noble. In the case of a person facing a long, slow, painful decline from something terminal like pancreatic cancer or ALS, is suicide more selfish than forcing loved ones to deal with the same dying over weeks or months rather than something quicker? End result is the same and the slow dying the grief is just extended. Personally I'd probably take the suicide route rather than living in pain when quality of life is zero. And ultimately, it would probably be better for the family and friends too.

 

[Mide]

It's your life. If you want to go, go for it.

 

[utahraptor]

A suicide is the most generous gift one can bestow to humanity. The planet can't sustain the current level of population.

 

[Muse]

I think you're asking the wrong question. Almost everybody is quite selfish, IMO. Call me cynical.

I think expecting a person to suffer through life when they clearly don't want to is what's selfish. A person is the captain of his/her own life, they are entitled to live as they choose and to die how they choose. Suicide stigma is purely cultural, here it's considered taboo while in other cultures it's considered noble. In the case of a person facing a long, slow, painful decline from something terminal like pancreatic cancer or ALS, is suicide more selfish than forcing loved ones to deal with the same dying over weeks or months rather than something quicker? End result is the same and the slow dying the grief is just extended. Personally I'd probably take the suicide route rather than living in pain when quality of life is zero. And ultimately, it would probably be better for the family and friends too.

QFT

 

[jhansman]

We've had a lot of topics before, it never hurts to talk about something more often if its helps bring it to the forefront of peoples minds and possibly help someone.
I am not judging anyone, I am simply asking the question that has been floating around. And just to play devils advocate. I present this, Robin Williams is now free from his pain. But now, his wife, kids, and the world are suffering. Is that not selfish?

For all we know, living with him as he suffered may have been worse than living without him. It's not for us to say what he did was right or wrong.

 

[Fingolfin269]

It's really not that simple.

 

[Captante]

Depends on the circumstances.


Edit: Voted no

 

[JulesMaximus]

We've had a lot of topics before, it never hurts to talk about something more often if its helps bring it to the forefront of peoples minds and possibly help someone.
I am not judging anyone, I am simply asking the question that has been floating around. And just to play devils advocate. I present this, Robin Williams is now free from his pain. But now, his wife, kids, and the world are suffering. Is that not selfish?

Did Robin Williams owe you something? You have no idea what his pain was like or how low his depression was. I feel for his wife and kids and I grieve for him... I'm not really sure where you're going with this quite frankly. Do you want us to be angry at him for killing himself?