**Super Bowl LI ** Brady v Ryan - Who Ya Be Takin'?

[FerrelGeek]

I lived in the Boston area for 8 years (and my wife grew up there), so have a soft spot for Boston teams. Congrats to the Pats for an amazing comeback and to both teams for an exciting game. I have family and friends in Atlanta, so I do feel their pain. That was their game to lose and I won't repeat comments to that effect.

I'm also glad for the Pats win because it was a slap in the face to the asswipes that insisted on politicizing the game. It's nobody's business who anybody on either team voted for. Let them do their job and play the game. AFAIK, nobody on either team was beating up their BF/GF/spouse, engaging in dogfighting, or whatever so leave them be. Middle school is pretty much universally despised, so can we leave it behind?

 

[purbeast0]

Falcons were up 28-9 with 2 minutes left to play in the 3rd quarter. 99% was correct at that time. It was again 99% odd when Falcons were in field goal range with like 4 minutes left in the game.

I know they were up with that score in the 3rd quarter. The article didn't state it was the 3rd quarter, it said 2 minutes left to play.

 

[ponyo]

I know they were up with that score in the 3rd quarter. The article didn't state it was the 3rd quarter, it said 2 minutes left to play.

It's pretty easy to infer. Falcons played their hearts out. As lifelong Falcons fan who started watching when David Archer was the quarterback in the 80s through Chris Miller, Jeff George, Chris Chandler, and Mike Vick, I'm used to Falcons disappointing. But this one hurts real bad because we had the game won. I felt this was our year. Now who knows when Falcons will be back. They have good young team but there are lot of good teams.

 

[supastar1568]

Born and raised in NE but not a Pats fan (actually they didn't have many fans till about 2001 but that's another story).

It's amazing the razor thin margins...if Atlanta didn't blow this, Seattle hands the ball off, and the tuck-rule didn't exist (the right call at the time per the rule book, but clearly a fumble) then Brady has two rings.

With that said, respect for Belichick for developing that system and keeping that organization dominate for so long with so much turnover.

 

[louis redfoot]

Born and raised in NE but not a Pats fan (actually they didn't have many fans till about 2001 but that's another story).

It's amazing the razor thin margins...if Atlanta didn't blow this, Seattle hands the ball off, and the tuck-rule didn't exist (the right call at the time per the rule book, but clearly a fumble) then Brady has two rings.

With that said, respect for Belichick for developing that system and keeping that organization dominate for so long with so much turnover.

if not edelman's glue hands, one ring

 

[soulcougher73]

Born and raised in NE but not a Pats fan (actually they didn't have many fans till about 2001 but that's another story).

It's amazing the razor thin margins...if Atlanta didn't blow this, Seattle hands the ball off, and the tuck-rule didn't exist (the right call at the time per the rule book, but clearly a fumble) then Brady has two rings.

With that said, respect for Belichick for developing that system and keeping that organization dominate for so long with so much turnover.

Pfft..what ifs.

If the Vikings would just win every game they'd have 51 rings....

 

[Ackmed]

There's no question Brady is the GOAT. He won that game yesterday. Quinn and Shanahan gave him some help but Brady won the game with his play.

There is question. You can't just compare stats, rings, etc. Different rules and time players played, make a difference. Sure he's obviously in discussion, to say hes the best ever in apples to oranges.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Haven't followed football for many years and watched mostly the 2nd half. Can someone tell me why the Patriots were exclusively passing? Do they not have a running game? Hell I still don't know if James White is a back or a receiver. Or was it because of the score at that point? Not only did the ATL pass rush fail, the secondary and LBs (unnoticeable) couldn't stop a pass to save their life. Brady was surgical in delivering 10-yd passes the entire rest of the game. They knew it and couldn't stop it. Too much prevent defense?

NE was down 25 points with less than a half to catch up. NE did run the ball 25 times for over a 100 yards. Also, NE's long drives tired out the Atlanta defense which allowed them to be picked apart. NE had 93 offense plays for 40 minutes, twice that of Atlanta 46 plays and 23 minutes. Even the greatest defenses(like Seattle two years ago) will get tired.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I tried to be fairly neutral but couldn't help rooting for the Falcons and being jubilant in their domination... for 3 quarters. Then it started to unravel.

I saw the replays and decided that the touchdown in overtime should have been reversed, White's knee hit the ground before the ball crossed the goal line, Buck and Aikman's declarations notwithstanding. It should have been 3rd and goal from 3 inches from the goal line. I was waiting for an announcement. Obviously, any score in overtime would be reviewed, and all scoring plays are reviewed anyway. Instead, it was all celebration, teaming fans, confetti, blah blah. I watched a minute or so of that, realized that no announcement of a booth review was going to happen and turned it off and deleted my DVR files, disgusted.

And you're wrong, the football crossed the plain before his knee touched nobody but you have said it was not a touchdown.

 

[MrSquished]

And you're wrong, the football crossed the plain before his knee touched nobody but you have said it was not a touchdown.

Agreed. It was close but it looked like a touchdown. And there definitely wasn't enough evidence to overturn that call anyway based upon the replays

 

[Childs]

In the defense of their defense, they were exhausted because they were on the field for so long with no sustained drives by the offense outside the first drive in the second half. I think that was a problem for NE's defense in the first half as well - they were gassed and recovered over halftime.

The defense also got them at least 10 points with the pick 6 and strip fumble preventing at least a NE FG. Considering what we knew about the Atlanta defense going into the game, they played about what I think most people expected. I just couldnt foresee such a huge discrepancy in time of possession. If the Atlanta offense just extended their series by a couple of first downs in the second half it would have given the defense a break and ate the clock. The only thing I'd question about the defense is they somewhat changed their aggression level. They were content to give up the short stuff which let NE put drives together. And the pressure on Brady dropped off big time so he had plenty of time to go through his progressions when the quick short stuff wasnt there. But maybe it was more about Brady simply missing receivers and drops in the first half, and once he settled in there wasnt anything they could do. Like with most collapses it probably took a series of things for this to happen, not any one thing or aspect of the game. It was a collective effort on Atlanta's part, and you can always count on NE to not give up, even down 25. I remember thinking Atlanta was up too much too soon. Yeah its a big lead, but basically 3 possessions and you have a game. I think if the game was closer Atlanta wouldnt have had the mental breakdowns. They would have played to win instead of not to lose. But if this was going to happen to any team you just knew it was going to be the Falcons.

In reality if anyone is to blame its the Packers! I love Aaron Rodgers but he could have saved Atlanta from themselves by not beating the Cowboys. Atlanta more than likely would have choked on the road in Dallas, and this would have just been another Flacons season, not a historic collapse.

 

[zerocool84]

Born and raised in NE but not a Pats fan (actually they didn't have many fans till about 2001 but that's another story).

It's amazing the razor thin margins...if Atlanta didn't blow this, Seattle hands the ball off, and the tuck-rule didn't exist (the right call at the time per the rule book, but clearly a fumble) then Brady has two rings.

With that said, respect for Belichick for developing that system and keeping that organization dominate for so long with so much turnover.

And Brady would have even more rings if this or if that. Sports are always if this or if that. I'm not a Patriots fan at all but what they did last night was incredible.

 

[Miramonti]

n/m

 

[MrSquished]

And Brady would have even more rings if this or if that. Sports are always if this or if that. I'm not a Patriots fan at all but what they did last night was incredible.

very true. and if the amazing Giants (Go Blue!) didn't get a circus catch by Tyree in one Super Bowl, and a thrilling tightrope catch by Manningham in the other game, Brady could have two more rings. it's six of one half a dozen of the other.

 

[Miramonti]

There is question. You can't just compare stats, rings, etc. Different rules and time players played, make a difference. Sure he's obviously in discussion, to say hes the best ever in apples to oranges.

Apples and oranges, its true, but still fun to debate.

I think one of the strongest measures in the pool of opinions is when a 'great' from earlier eras can say that 'this' person from today is the greatest, since they played back then with and against the other greats in consideration. Still an opinion (and they still may stick to their old school peers), but they are far more knowledgable than most people's opinions.

 

[momeNt]

Not that it really matters, but Brady and Manning have the 2 longest stretches between Superbowl wins at 10 and 9 years apart respectively. Both had 2 superbowl losses in that stretch.

 

[KMFJD]

That was an epic game, when White scored the winning TD in overtime there where a couple of Pats fans that jumped fully clothed into the hotel pool...

 

[SearchMaster]

Falcons fan here.

Brady is the GOAT. One of the biggest factors in that definition IMO is "do they raise the play of their teammates significantly?" And it's hard to argue against him there - he's taken a bunch of pretty average receivers and running backs to the height of their careers. Most of his receivers that leave (e.g. Deion Branch, Wes Welker) never have the kind of success they had with Brady. Skills-wise I think Elway and Marino were better QBs but overall, it's Brady. I feel the same way about Lebron James - he has twice taken a couple of talent-deficient teams to the NBA finals (didn't win those particular championships but just getting them there was amazing IMO).

The Falcons made a few critical mistakes against a team that you absolutely can't make mistakes against. The Pats won because they were the better team. I wasn't surprised, I am not a Matt Ryan fan and though he had a fantastic year, he is known for making horrible decisions at critical points in the game and for that reason I've never cared for him. Plus Julio makes him look a lot better than he really is (he's unbelievable).

 

[emperus]

No, you're missing the point. Falcons had the game locked up at 99% winning. It's not they needed to run the entire 2nd half. They just needed to run when they were up big and in scoring position to ice the game. Running would've eaten the clock. They would've scored at least field goal. NE would burned timeouts. Using the full play clock would've eaten more time. NE wouldn't had enough time to tie the game to put it into overtime. There's time to be aggressive and time to be conservative and manage the clock. Without Quinn and Shanahan help, Patriots would've ran out of time.

There was no point they were up big and in scoring position and didn't run the ball. I think you are talking about the time when they were in scoring position and up by 8 in the 4th quarter. And in that situation they only got there by throwing the ball and one amazing(miraculous) catch by Julio Jones. So I understand why they had pass vs. run on the mind.

 

[emperus]

Falcons fan here.

Brady is the GOAT. One of the biggest factors in that definition IMO is "do they raise the play of their teammates significantly?" And it's hard to argue against him there - he's taken a bunch of pretty average receivers and running backs to the height of their careers. Most of his receivers that leave (e.g. Deion Branch, Wes Welker) never have the kind of success they had with Brady. Skills-wise I think Elway and Marino were better QBs but overall, it's Brady. I feel the same way about Lebron James - he has twice taken a couple of talent-deficient teams to the NBA finals (didn't win those particular championships but just getting them there was amazing IMO).

The Falcons made a few critical mistakes against a team that you absolutely can't make mistakes against. The Pats won because they were the better team. I wasn't surprised, I am not a Matt Ryan fan and though he had a fantastic year, he is known for making horrible decisions at critical points in the game and for that reason I've never cared for him. Plus Julio makes him look a lot better than he really is (he's unbelievable).

Great point about Brady being the GOAT. But please don't tie him to Lebron. Brady has had quality deficient offenses his whole career and never complains (though his wife did once).

 

[smackababy]

Falcons fan here.

Brady is the GOAT. One of the biggest factors in that definition IMO is "do they raise the play of their teammates significantly?" And it's hard to argue against him there - he's taken a bunch of pretty average receivers and running backs to the height of their careers. Most of his receivers that leave (e.g. Deion Branch, Wes Welker) never have the kind of success they had with Brady. Skills-wise I think Elway and Marino were better QBs but overall, it's Brady. I feel the same way about Lebron James - he has twice taken a couple of talent-deficient teams to the NBA finals (didn't win those particular championships but just getting them there was amazing IMO).

The Falcons made a few critical mistakes against a team that you absolutely can't make mistakes against. The Pats won because they were the better team. I wasn't surprised, I am not a Matt Ryan fan and though he had a fantastic year, he is known for making horrible decisions at critical points in the game and for that reason I've never cared for him. Plus Julio makes him look a lot better than he really is (he's unbelievable).

Something else to take into consideration is leadership. It might not be Brady, but somebody was making the Pats continue to fight despite being down by 25 points. Nearly every one stepped up to do their part. They didn't sink and give up half way through the game. That kind of mentality is hard, especially in big time games.

 

[MrSquished]

Great, but lengthy, analysis of the game based upon win percentages:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/pag...cle-how-patriots-came-back-dead-super-bowl-li

 

[Capt Caveman]

Something else to take into consideration is leadership. It might not be Brady, but somebody was making the Pats continue to fight despite being down by 25 points. Nearly every one stepped up to do their part. They didn't sink and give up half way through the game. That kind of mentality is hard, especially in big time games.

Post game, a number of the Patriots mentioned players like Duron Harmon talked about a come back at half time - http://nesn.com/2017/02/duron-harmo...have-greatest-comeback-in-super-bowl-history/

 

[MrSquished]

Post game, a number of the Patriots mentioned players like Duron Harmon talked about a come back at half time - http://nesn.com/2017/02/duron-harmo...have-greatest-comeback-in-super-bowl-history/

Their drive, belief, execution and perseverance is just amazing. It's the greatest comeback in football history for christ sakes.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

There is question. You can't just compare stats, rings, etc. Different rules and time players played, make a difference. Sure he's obviously in discussion, to say hes the best ever in apples to oranges.

Exactly.

Joe Montana is the GOAT IMO. He played in an era of an incredibly stacked and dangerous NFC (the NFC who won what, 13 or 14 Super Bowls in a row? The 49ers, Giants, and Redskins won 8 or 9 of those if I remember correctly), teams were more talented top to bottom due to the league being smaller (28 vs 32 teams), and the rules didn't protect QBs and receivers back then like they do now. Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger simply didn't have to face stacked teams like the Giants/Bears/Redskins (and Cowboys earlier) year in and year out like those 49ers did. For you kids who didn't get to see him play, he had an otherworldly calm and cool that was almost supernatural - if you don't believe me, read the account of when they were down against the Bengals in Super Bowl 23 and he entered the huddle on the final drive. He played in an era filled with legendary QBs such as Elway, Kelly, Young, and Marino and let's be honest - Montana had a fraction of their physical talent but more than made up for it with grit and heart.

Brady is the best of his era, but all time? Not in my opinion - Montana all the way.

Their drive, belief, execution and perseverance is just amazing. It's the greatest comeback in football history for christ sakes.

In SUPER BOWL history - there have been larger comebacks in pro football: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/buffalo-bills-pull-off-greatest-comeback-in-nfl-history