Super-budget gaming PC, need advice on some parts

[Yuriman]

I asked this question a few weeks ago on this forum but my criterion have changed a little since then.

My current PC:
Q6600 @ 3.0
6GB DDR2
HD4870

I was just gifted 2 copies of Diablo 3 and I'd like to build a second PC for my wife that can run the game. It'd be nice if it were also capable of playing Guild Wars 2 at something above minimum settings, but I'm not asking a whole lot out of it. If the Ivy i3's were out, I'd probably opt for one of those even if it were above my budget, and pass the Q6600 down to her. If Trinity were out for desktops I'd grab one of those with a motherboard and call it a day. However, neither is out. I'm trying to do this for less than $175 but I'm open to spending a little more if it will really be worth it. Money is tight though.


One possibility is that I get a Llano chip for her to save costs, but I think I have the budget for a Sandy i3 and cheap motherboard if I shop around. Going that route, I don't know if I'll take the new chip for myself or keep using the Core2Quad. I do emulation occasionally and I'd probably appreciate the improved single-threaded performance, but it's not a big deal. I'd appreciate an upgrade but I'm fairly content with my system as-is.

Is Llano faster than my Q6600? Is a Pentium worth considering? Would you consider a Pentium a downgrade from a Q6600?


I'm inclined to look for a used HD4850 or HD4870 for the video card since I can crossfire it with my current card when I eventually upgrade, but budget restrictions make this difficult to do right away. I think she would have an acceptable experience in Diablo with HD3000 graphics on a 1440x900, but that assumes I put the i3 in her PC. If I give her the i3 now it'll be somewhat difficult to take it back because she'll start loading personal stuff on it, so assume that if it's hers, it's hers for good. I'm pessimistic about how well Intel's HD3000 will handle D3 at 1920x1200 so it'll make taking the i3 for myself kinda painful for a while.


I need a cheap, reliable power supply that will only need to handle at maximum a Q6600 and an HD4870 with the bare minimum of other parts - I figure ~400-450w should be sufficient. I haven't shopped for a power supply in a while so I don't know what's good on the cheap.


I have some extra DDR2 but I don't want to buy a motherboard that uses old ram, so I'll probably opt for either a) 1x 2GB or 4GB stick of ram if I go with any chip paired with a discreet card, or b) a pair of faster sticks if I go with Llano or use the i3's integrated graphics.


I won't be needing any other parts or a copy of windows.


What would you do? Take the i3 for yourself and live with HD3k graphics for a while on a 1920x1200 screen? Give her the i3 and add an HD4870 later? Go with a cheaper chip and get a better GPU right now? I'm open to suggestions but I'd like to buy by tomorrow afternoon.

 

[mfenn]

My understanding of your post is that the Q6600 et al. are in your current PC (ie. if you were to use them in this machine, you would need to replace them in your main PC). If that's correct, $175 is really damn tight.

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MGC $50
IGP
DDR3 1333 4GB $20
Corsair 430CX $25 AR
Total: $165 AR

Since you said you don't need any parts besides a mobo and PSU, I'm assuming that you have a case, HDD, ODD, etc.

 

[Yuriman]

My understanding of your post is that the Q6600 et al. are in your current PC (ie. if you were to use them in this machine, you would need to replace them in your main PC). If that's correct, $175 is really damn tight.

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MGC $50
IGP
DDR3 1333 4GB $20
Corsair 430CX $25 AR
Total: $165 AR

Since you said you don't need any parts besides a mobo and PSU, I'm assuming that you have a case, HDD, ODD, etc.

You're correct on the parts. Q6600 in current rig, looking to build 2nd.

Slickdeals currently has an H61 board for $25 after rebates, which would make things easier - could almost fit the i3 into the budget then. Alternatively, newegg has an A8-3850 for $90. I could spend a little more if it's justified but I'm really trying to cheap out on this one.

 

[Yuriman]

Looking at Anandtech Bench I'm a little bummed, actually. After some extensive comparing, I estimate that the A8 is almost a dead match for a stock Q6600, and the i3 2100 is between 8% and 25% faster than the A8 - almost a dead match for a Q6600 at 3ghz. It would be a side-grade at best.

Anyone have any links to a really good roundup/review, or something that might have contrary information? I was expecting the i3's IPC improvements to give it more of an edge against the older Core2Quad.

Maybe I'll get the i3 and give it to her, and let her use integrated graphics for a little while.

 

[krnmastersgt]

In what charts were you comparing? Raw compute power with all threads being utilized the Q6600 will hold up very well, but in single thread performance the i3 should be noticeably ahead of the Q6600. I wouldn't consider the AMD processors anymore unless you're doing super cheap HTPC set-ups.

 

[Ken g6]

If you're stuck on integrated graphics, I'd suggest going with Llano: worse CPU, but better GPU.

A6-3500+Gigabyte mobo combo: $125/$115 AR

And get Mfenn's RAM and PSU.

 

[Yuriman]

Thanks for you input. I wasn't fully aware of the featureset of the Sandy i3 until now and I'm pretty disappointed that both of these chips are equal at best to my 5 year old quad. No turbo + no overclocking makes the i3 no better than my current chip, and the AMD chip is considerably slower per clock than a 5 year old Intel. I'm willing to bet with a conservative overclock Llano will be about a match for the i3, though I'm trading cost for power consumption and heat if I go that route. AMD is looking a little better.

Which poses the question: would I be better off getting a used Phenom II at this pricepoint? Maybe even a used Nehalem-generation chip with a new motherboard?

 

[krnmastersgt]

If you grabbed a used Phenom II you won't be promised any particular GPU, with the Llano's they're built into the chip whereas if you use a Phenom you'll be relying on the board. And Nehalem chips won't be giving you much in terms of performance increases, just much cooler at doing it. I'd say go with Ken's suggestion but I'm not entirely sure how it'll really play D3.

 

[Ken g6]

It's a new day, with new ideas. If you can afford to wait for mail-in rebates to come back...

G530 2.4GHz ~$47
$15AR AP H61 mobo

That should make enough space in the budget for:

6670, $40AR

 

[Yuriman]

Looks good, thanks Ken! MIRB are fine with me, and I can sell the G530 in a month or four and drop in an Ivy i3 if I need a little more CPU power.

 

[b0mbrman]

Holy cow. This and my build are starting to coalesce nicely

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2243532

 

[Yuriman]

Funny how that works. I think someone should write a witty law about it.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for you input. I wasn't fully aware of the featureset of the Sandy i3 until now and I'm pretty disappointed that both of these chips are equal at best to my 5 year old quad. No turbo + no overclocking makes the i3 no better than my current chip, and the AMD chip is considerably slower per clock than a 5 year old Intel. I'm willing to bet with a conservative overclock Llano will be about a match for the i3, though I'm trading cost for power consumption and heat if I go that route. AMD is looking a little better.

Which poses the question: would I be better off getting a used Phenom II at this pricepoint? Maybe even a used Nehalem-generation chip with a new motherboard?

I think that the idea would be for you to keep what you've got and just give your wife the new parts. That way you don't have to worry about "side=grade", you just give her a big "upgrade".

 

[b0mbrman]

Funny how that works. I think someone should write a witty law about it.

Is there a forum inside joke I'm missing? :\

 

[bononos]

Thanks for you input. I wasn't fully aware of the featureset of the Sandy i3 until now and I'm pretty disappointed that both of these chips are equal at best to my 5 year old quad. No turbo + no overclocking makes the i3 no better than my current chip, and the AMD chip is considerably slower per clock than a 5 year old Intel. I'm willing to bet with a conservative overclock Llano will be about a match for the i3, though I'm trading cost for power consumption and heat if I go that route. AMD is looking a little better.
.........

The Sandy i3 is a dual core cpu with hyperthreading while your Q6600 is a quad core.

 

[Seraphimcaduto]

Well I can tell you that I have an A8-3820 llano and I can run skyrim on high or ultra settings (1440 x 900, i believe i had AA on, but I can check later) without any problems, so an A8-3850 should be more than adequate. I haven't benchmarked the system yet, but it suits my needs just fine. My system build was an itx build, so it will be cheaper in MATX/atx. System: A8-3820 llano, asrock mini-itx a75, antec isk 110 (w/ 90w PSU), 8gb ddr3 1600 ram, 64GB crucial m4 SSD.

 

[N4n45h1]

For Diablo III, there's a chance it will run decently at 1080p on a HD 3000. I'm currently using an HD 4000 while waiting for my GPU to arrive (today!) and I've been playing D3 at 1080p with all the settings turned down. It's definitely not above 60fps, but it doesn't seem to drop below 30 fps either.

Either way, I think you should be able to have a good experience with any modern integrated graphics chipset

 

[Yuriman]

For Diablo III, there's a chance it will run decently at 1080p on a HD 3000. I'm currently using an HD 4000 while waiting for my GPU to arrive (today!) and I've been playing D3 at 1080p with all the settings turned down. It's definitely not above 60fps, but it doesn't seem to drop below 30 fps either.

Either way, I think you should be able to have a good experience with any modern integrated graphics chipset

My sister-in-law plays D3 on her 11.6" Macbook Air (1366x768). The system has a dual core i5 (1.6ghz I think?) and an HD3000 and it runs like crap at lowest settings. 25fps if she's lucky. I'm not sure how much the low CPU clock is to blame but I'm pessimistic about the HD3000.

 

[tynopik]

i would be looking at used systems

 

[Zeze]

Just to let you know, my 2 yo $450 budget system runs Diablo III just fine at near max settings CURRENTLY. This is my first hand knowledge:

Phenom X3 720 BE (4th core unlocked, OC'd to 3.4 Ghz from 2.8)
4 Gigs of ram
HD 4850

This runs the game beautifully at 50-60 fps with slight hiccups @ 1920x1080, everything high, medium shadow, AA on, no Vsync.

That as a reference, we got:
-HD 6670 on Slickdeals $47 (only 2 tiers below HD4850)

-mfenn's 4 Gig RAM $20

-mfenn's $25 PSU

Go from there.

 

[Yuriman]

Update: 6770 deal seems dead, any other good deals on a video card in that range?

While I was thinking of getting a second 4870 so I could crossfire with my current one in her machine eventually (it's 512MB but not a big deal at the low res her monitor is), upon reconsidering, I would probably be happy enough with a 6770 or equivalent because of the power savings/heat reduction.

 

[mfenn]

Update: 6770 deal seems dead, any other good deals on a video card in that range?

While I was thinking of getting a second 4870 so I could crossfire with my current one in her machine eventually (it's 512MB but not a big deal at the low res her monitor is), upon reconsidering, I would probably be happy enough with a 6770 or equivalent because of the power savings/heat reduction.

Did you mean the 6670 that Zeze posted? There's another one for $40 AR on Newegg.

 

[Yuriman]

Thanks, ordered.