Super Flower 450W Power Supply: $19.99 3-fans, weird paint job.

[Trikat]

I read you could just change the speed of the fans so I would probably be setting the fans at the lowest speed. I mean there is 4 fans so a lot of air is being pumped in constantly.

 

[nigm]

Originally posted by: Trikat
I read you could just change the speed of the fans so I would probably be setting the fans at the lowest speed. I mean there is 4 fans so a lot of air is being pumped in constantly.

Yup ! And if 1 fan goes out, you have 3 more for redundancy ! yiipppiiie!!


now all i need is a good case and a good mobo+cpu deal

I was gonna jump on that $90 antec case, but wtf, $90 for a case that doesn't even have clear side windows?!

I'd rather get a cheaper no-name brand one, that looks much sick

+N_GM

 

[Wulf]

That psu is made by TTGI, one of the better quality brands out there. Go check out the Hard forums HERE and read the sticky, it's VERY informative.


Looks like the 450w with 14cm fan is on sale for $19
450w PSU

 

[kennyG]

Originally posted by: rgreen83
Oppainter of extremesystems reviewed this PS about a year ago here, and on page three he'll tell you how to manually ajust the 5V and 12V lines via a trim pot inside the PS.

Overclockers also reviewed a nearly identical PS here.

Ive actually been trying to get the 14cm fan version of this PS but it has been sold out of directron for awhile.

I just got the black Mirror 14cm from axiontech.com..but not cheap with shippinng..96.32..to florida

 

[nigm]

Originally posted by: Wulf
That psu is made by TTGI, one of the better quality brands out there. Go check out the Hard forums HERE and read the sticky, it's VERY informative.


Looks like the 450w with 14cm fan is on sale for $19
450w PSU

AHHH wtf, I could have waited and gotten this one instead ! Bleh, I wonder if I can still cancel my order and get this one.. Much cheaper :\

 

[htne]

Originally posted by: Wulf
Looks like the 450w with 14cm fan is on sale for $19
450w PSU

Yes, but you must purchase a minimum of $50 in order to buy this power supply. You can only buy two of the power supplies (for $38), so you will need another $12 item to qualify.


Possibly hot, depending on shipping, is this micro-ATX case with power supply and 3.5 inch floppy included for $26.


http://www.directron.com/compaqcase.html

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.directron.com/directron/sf561t.html[/L

EDIT2:the review of this case can be found here not bad at all for the price![L=tomHWguide]http://www17.tomshardware.com/howto/20030804/case-39.html">superFcase</a>

 

[nigm]

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?superFcase

I'd rather get this red one

But, I'm also looking for a sick lookin gamers case for decent price

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

Originally posted by: nigm

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?superFcase

I'd rather get this red one

But, I'm also looking for a sick lookin gamers case for decent price

that case to me looks ugly IMOP, and more expensive than the one i picked, i found a review on the one i found seems to be good for the price!tomHWguide

 

[nigm]

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE

Originally posted by: nigm

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?superFcase

I'd rather get this red one

But, I'm also looking for a sick lookin gamers case for decent price

that case to me looks ugly IMOP, and more expensive than the one i picked, i found a review on the one i found seems to be good for the price!tomHWguide

Well... The one you bought is too plain. I want something that is radical, looks good, and is fairly cheap. Yours is something I would buy at frys

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

Originally posted by: nigm

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE

Originally posted by: nigm

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?superFcase

I'd rather get this red one

But, I'm also looking for a sick lookin gamers case for decent price

that case to me looks ugly IMOP, and more expensive than the one i picked, i found a review on the one i found seems to be good for the price!tomHWguide

Well... The one you bought is too plain. I want something that is radical, looks good, and is fairly cheap. Yours is something I would buy at frys

can you find any reviews on that case you are interested in? if the review is good i may buy it (the black one)

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

along with the 19$PS how about filling it with a floppy+media reader its 25.99$then add a casesticker Text

 

[Razorguts]

Originally posted by: SuPrEIVIE
crap the 550W just went up to 49.99!!

EDIT:anybody find a good case to fill this with the PS?i was looking at this case what do you guys think?<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www17.tomshardware.com/howto/20030804/case-39.html">superFcase]http://www.directron.com/directron/sf561t.html[/L<B">
EDIT2:the review of this case can be found here not bad at all for the price![L=tomHWguide</a>[/quote]
I have the silver (aluminum) , triple-window version of this SuperFlower case... I don't have any reviews at my fingertips, but I read about 3 before taking the plunge. Excellent case, and looks much better in person than those pics reveal. Very solid build quality, comes with loads of extras (screws, bay covers, etc.), and the included fans are suprisingly very quiet. The slide-out mobo tray is a nice feature, too...

lastly, fwiw, I've seen the black one in person (with brass hardware), and it isn't very impressive. The silver, and perhaps some of the other colors they offer (green, wine, etc) would be better choices. But IMO the silver really does look classy.

Hope this helps.

 

[JPSJPS]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
But it's not really that simple, and I actually think that the "peak" power-on load would probably be a bit higher, but your meter lacks the precision to accurately measure that amount, since it appears for such a short time. (But your steady-state power load numbers do look right for that kind of system. I would expect "peak" to be closer to 280-300W, maybe more, considering six HD motor spin-ups.)

Why do you presume to know what kind of current meter I use? One of my clamp on meters has 10 MHz Bandwidth and the current waveform is displayed/stored on a digital oscilloscope allowing a dynamic display of both voltage and current waveforms. So in fact it *is* that simple! You are correct about the Hard Drive spinup requiring more power but at this time the other stuff (CPU &amp; Video) is using lower power to offset that. The +12VDC peak load voltage tolerance spec is +/- 10% so if the voltage did sag a little during this time nothing bad would happen anyhow.

The bigger issue is how much of a load does it draw off of each particular rail. It's possible to be drawing "200W" of actually steady power-consumption from a PC, and yet still, a "300W" PSU won't handle it, because of the loads on the individual lines. AMD's guidelines suggest (I believe) at least a combined +3.3v and +5v output of at least 180-200W. Most cheaper generic "300W" don't actually meet this spec, with combined power output of only 150-165W. Better-quality supplies with higher combined ratings, or "bigger" generic supplies (if they aren't just up-rated for marketing purposes) can also handle it.

Yep - In fact the measurement process involves recording the individual outputs. I am surprised that many cheap $25 power supplies I have tested will do combined 3.3/5V of 175-220 Watts. And who knows which specs are "up-rated for marketing purposes" like you say and which are real? I don't unless I have measured them.

But if you were trying to point out that most modern PCs, don't actually take "550W" of real power, then you are correct. But the problem is matching them up with an adequate PSU, especially since a PSU marked "550W" doesn't actually deliver 550W, either. (I would expect it to at least deliver steady power of 300-350W, hopefully.)

Actually the point I was making is that most modern PCs take less than 1/2 of that 550W. The average user would be very surprised if he did the actual required power measurements.
Some of the PSUs that that I have measured do deliver full/almost full rated power but like you say many don't, both "name brand" and generic. In many cases, the specs mean little so I realize why the tendency is to ask for over specified PSUs.

A while back some clueless reviewer here on Anandtech (Christopher----??) published a couple of atrocious power Supply reviews so I did some independent testing to satisfy my curiosity.
This required scrounging up some automotive head lights and tail lights for loads and some clip leads to connect these loads to each voltage. I even used a big fat MOSFET to dynamically switch current loads to observe the transient response. I used an IR thermometer to measure the various component temps in the PSU.
I was amazed how well the generic $19 and up PSUs performed. Of course, the cheapie PSUs supplied with $29 cases did not do as well but they still would work fine for most folks. The critical voltages are further regulated on the motherboard so the PSU output voltage does not have to be perfect. I have read that some video cards have a problem with low +12VDC levels but I can not confirm that.

I am usually not that anal but I am a retired EE circuit design engineer so this was "living in the past" for a little while. And getting factual results instead of relying upon BS or "the sky is falling" guesses satisfied my curiosity and made life a lot easier when selecting a power supply.

 

[SuPrEIVIE]

just got in on that TTGI450W deal for 19$, I just put in a keyboard to bump it to a total of $50+,
if anybody else needs a ps, reviews have mentioned its good as stated in previous posts, sale ends at 9pm tho i think pacific time

 

[bupkus]

Is the Antec power supply tester worth the $11.99?
Link to directron
Link to Antec

In reference to the 450W PS:
The price has moved back up to $35.99 but when I placed it into my shopping cart the price came up as $18.99 and without any reference to the $50 minimum. Shipping was $10.81 (for 2) but not even NewEgg generally ships their PSs free.

 

[vicdoc]

I have often wondered if my measly 235W power supply needs updated: I have an XP 2000+ with an old Geforce 3 card and it still seems to work well. I just missed out on these 450 and 550 W PSUs. I'll keep checking tho...

 

[theonlycontender]

I just got this power supply in today, and I have no complaints whatsoever. Delivery was fast (but i live near directron) and cheap. This thing is gorgeous, weighs a ton and puts out more power than I could ever use............. well, maybe not, who knows what the computer gods have instore for us in the future I got in on it when it was $29 bux, too bad its $49 now =/ Still....... not TOO bad of a deal at 49.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: vicdoc
I have often wondered if my measly 235W power supply needs updated: I have an XP 2000+ with an old Geforce 3 card and it still seems to work well. I just missed out on these 450 and 550 W PSUs. I'll keep checking tho...

replace it when it dies. if it works.. it works.

 

[bupkus]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: vicdoc
I have often wondered if my measly 235W power supply needs updated: I have an XP 2000+ with an old Geforce 3 card and it still seems to work well. I just missed out on these 450 and 550 W PSUs. I'll keep checking tho...

replace it when it dies. if it works.. it works.

Right, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
However, even new cars come with spares.

 

[VietDude]

dam price went up

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: JPSJPS

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
But it's not really that simple

Why do you presume to know what kind of current meter I use? One of my clamp on meters has 10 MHz Bandwidth and the current waveform is displayed/stored on a digital oscilloscope allowing a dynamic display of both voltage and current waveforms.

Hmm, nice tools. Ok, I stand corrected.

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
So in fact it *is* that simple!

Upon re-reading, of course you are in fact correct.

What I was attempting to do, by commenting that it wasn't that simple, was that I thought that people would assume, based on your power-draw measurements, that they would only need to buy a "240W" PSU. *That* is what I was trying to say wasn't so simple. Meaning actual measured power-draw in watts, is not the same as the rated "total watts" on the PSU's label, and then went on to attempt to explain why. (Because all of that power is draw from different rails, and sometimes shared, the purchasing decision for a PSU is "not that simple".) But electrically-speaking, watts are watts, and you in fact were correct.

I was a bit surprised that the percentage-difference between power-on spin-up and steady-state power draw was so small, that's why I suspected that you were using a low-end meter, but clearly you were not, and my assumptions were a bit off the mark.

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
You are correct about the Hard Drive spinup requiring more power but at this time the other stuff (CPU &amp; Video) is using lower power to offset that.

Interesting point that I had not considered.

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
The +12VDC peak load voltage tolerance spec is +/- 10% so if the voltage did sag a little during this time nothing bad would happen anyhow.

It has a pretty wide tolerance in the ATX specs, relative to the other voltages, but I've found that some more modern HDs tend to be a bit less tolerant of noise on the 12v line than they probably should be. Due to space restrictions on a modern HD's PCBA, they don't have a lot of room for doing power-filtration, it seems.

Speaking of which, I posted this thread in GH recently, about PSUs, and got no responses. If you would care to take the time to comment, it would be much appreciated.

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
Yep - In fact the measurement process involves recording the individual outputs. I am surprised that many cheap $25 power supplies I have tested will do combined 3.3/5V of 175-220 Watts. And who knows which specs are "up-rated for marketing purposes" like you say and which are real? I don't unless I have measured them.

Interesting, again, to me those measured specs seem a bit high. Even with a "name brand" PSU, according to the label, at least in my experience, you generally need to purchase a "400W" or higher to get a combined 3.3/5V output of more than 200W. I'm curious what brand of generic you were in fact testing there. Was it by any chance an "FSP" (or AOpen/Sparkle) model?

Originally posted by: JPSJPS

But if you were trying to point out that most modern PCs, don't actually take "550W" of real power, then you are correct. But the problem is matching them up with an adequate PSU, especially since a PSU marked "550W" doesn't actually deliver 550W, either. (I would expect it to at least deliver steady power of 300-350W, hopefully.)

Actually the point I was making is that most modern PCs take less than 1/2 of that 550W. The average user would be very surprised if he did the actual required power measurements.
Some of the PSUs that that I have measured do deliver full/almost full rated power but like you say many don't, both "name brand" and generic. In many cases, the specs mean little so I realize why the tendency is to ask for over specified PSUs.

A while back some clueless reviewer here on Anandtech (Christopher----??) published a couple of atrocious power Supply reviews so I did some independent testing to satisfy my curiosity.
This required scrounging up some automotive head lights and tail lights for loads and some clip leads to connect these loads to each voltage. I even used a big fat MOSFET to dynamically switch current loads to observe the transient response. I used an IR thermometer to measure the various component temps in the PSU.

Wow. You should be doing PSU reviews here on AT, you seem to know your stuff.

The only question I have, with respect to the measured ratings you mentioned above, on the generic PSUs - wouldn't a steady DC resistive load, present a higher spec, due to the fact that it shouldn't affect the "efficiency" (PF) of the PSU in a negative manner, whereas the rather dynamic loads of a PC under normal/heavy operation might cause the real-world efficiency of the PSU to drop slightly? As well, if you did any sort of "noise" measurements on the outputs of the PSU, a steady load like a light bulb wouldn't really cause any noise, but a PC system might, at least to my thinking. Or is that what your MOSFET testing was for?

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
I was amazed how well the generic $19 and up PSUs performed. Of course, the cheapie PSUs supplied with $29 cases did not do as well but they still would work fine for most folks. The critical voltages are further regulated on the motherboard so the PSU output voltage does not have to be perfect. I have read that some video cards have a problem with low +12VDC levels but I can not confirm that.

I don't think that the biggest problem with "cheapy" PSU's is that they don't work, rather that they tend to output "noisy power" when stressed towards the maximum end of their capacity, combined with the fact that they are a bit over-spec'ed on the label, along with the fact that they tend to use cheaper, lighter-weight components (smaller heatsinks - they run hotter, and smaller buffering caps - if the AC voltage dips, they have less hold-up time), and most of all, they tend to have much shorter longevity because of the "cheapness factor", and when they go out, they also tend to take other components in your system with them. That's why they aren't well-loved around here, they are like ticking time-bombs to hardware, in some cases.

And as far as the "noisy power" goes, yes, if the mobo is correctly designed, it should, itself, filter and "buffer" the power correctly for the rest of the system components plugged into it, but again, due to the "cheapness factor", this often doesn't happen. Some MSI P4 boards are known to use two-phase rather than the recommended three-phase power arrangement, as a result, their VRMs are under more load (individually) and run hotter, and therefore are more prone to failure. Also, plenty of their mobos are missing caps, like on the power lines between PCIs slots, for example.

So basically, cheap PSUs rely on higher-quality mobos doing more work for noise-filtering and regulation further "downstream", and cheap mobos rely on higher-quality PSUs doing more of the same "upstream", so that when you put them together (as often happens in a cheaply-built system), you are generally just asking for problems.

(Correct me if I've made any further mistakes here, please.)

Originally posted by: JPSJPS
I am usually not that anal but I am a retired EE circuit design engineer so this was "living in the past" for a little while. And getting factual results instead of relying upon BS or "the sky is falling" guesses satisfied my curiosity and made life a lot easier when selecting a power supply.

Thank you for your input. I generally consider myself knowledgable about most hardware, but I'm not an EE, so I defer to one if they are in the house. (I'm a software guy myself, my dad is the EE in the family.)

I initially assumed that you just clamped on a cheap Radio Shack ammeter onto the AC line or something and decided to measure the current and extrapolate the power-draw. Clearly, I was wrong, and thank you for your intellegent insight.

 

[bupkus]

Up for update.

 

[troglodytis]

shows 32.99 for the SF-350SS for me

 

[breweyez]

Originally posted by: troglodytis
shows 32.99 for the SF-350SS for me

same here