Supreme Court Battle - Lets suppose Hillary wins

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Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
Hillary is a simply a pragmatist who has been in the game longer, so has had a longer observable "evolution" on the issues. Remember when Obama refused to endorse same sex marriage early in his tenure? She will govern like a liberal because she feels like the electorate is ready for someone to govern like a liberal. She's essentially the polar opposite of a ideologue, much like her husband, which I personally have no problem with. True ideologues like Ted Cruz scare the hell out of me.

It is the irony that people are so worked up about Trump that they forget how much #2 sucks.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
It's not my case to make. I've already stated my relative indifference to Hillary given her political alignment as a centrist with a few random liberal tendencies. She certainly ain't some progressive champion. Politics nowadays has realigned things so that people like Hillary are essentially conservatives of the classic definition, fighting to maintain status quo of achievements from days past like The Great Society and New Deal. If she gets elected so what? You'll have a "Democrat" in office whose ambition stops with preserving the poorly constructed Obamacare and perhaps engaging in a few more proactive neoconservative conflicts in the Middle East. If you want Dubya and Obama in a new wrapper then enjoy.

No, Hillary is a progressive, probably an OG one at that, her problem is that she isn't a politician (more accurately she is a horrible politician). If she had a quarter of the political capability as her husband she'd make bernie look like the centrist. While you think the big idea candidate, bernie sanders, is the true progressive, we've got clinton who has been making actual progress throughout her public career.

I'd rather bet on the achiever than the believer myself.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Who cares? Republicans nominated Roberts and all that got them is Obamacare?? He is just as liberal as the rest.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Republicans set the path for their very own Donald Trump nightmare come true.
Now, they want to set the same path so the most liberal minority person imaginable will be sitting on the high court.
Just sit back folks, and enjoy
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Republicans have a right to preserve the balance of the court, people. Before it was 5 conservatives and 4 liberals. But if Obama has his way it'll be 4 conservatives, 4 liberals and one moderate. This isn't balanced at all. :hmm:
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
Actually, nothing prevents opposing party from never holding any hearings for any length of the time. If republicans keep their majority in the senate and Clinton isthe next president, she can be deprived of nominating any judges for eight years if the senate feels like it. According to the constitutional scholars there is absolutely nothing unconstitutional in that non-process!
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Actually, nothing prevents opposing party from never holding any hearings for any length of the time. If republicans keep their majority in the senate and Clinton isthe next president, she can be deprived of nominating any judges for eight years if the senate feels like it. According to the constitutional scholars there is absolutely nothing unconstitutional in that non-process!

I guess you can say they did "advise" Obama, not in a constructive fashion mind you. And you're right, they aren't obligated to actually provide consent either. That's why I think we should have a timed "negative consent" function for nominations to break this prisoner's dilemma cycle but that obviously ain't happening anytime soon.
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
So it sees that Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it too regarding the supreme court nomination. They have said that they might take up Obama's nominee in the lame duck period if Hillary wins the election, which of course raises a couple of contradictions in itself

1. I thought the American people should decide? Does this not apply if it's not a Republican president?
2. Did they suddenly remember that a president is not considered a lame duck for the entire last year of his presidency?

With that said, should democrats make clear that if Hillary wins, and especially if they take back the senate, that they will withdraw this pick so Hillary can make the pick, presumably someone much younger and more liberal? Would be hilarious to watch Republicans suddenly claim obstruction in this case, and I have no doubt they would try.

Dude, this is all a puppet show...

The right gets obstructionism in their puppet show, and the left gets a 'genius' plot by 'progressive' Obama to give the right what they want, while knowing they will obstruct.

It's like a daytime drama!

Of course, in the end, after everyone loses interest, the GOP will 'concede' and we will end up with another right wing corporatist shill on the supreme court.


Cenk at TYT did a good video on Obama's latest pick! The GOP are practically salivating right now! That's how much they love this guy, and that should tell you all you need to know about Obama's great strategy.
 
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mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
No, Hillary is a progressive, probably an OG one at that, her problem is that she isn't a politician (more accurately she is a horrible politician). If she had a quarter of the political capability as her husband she'd make bernie look like the centrist. While you think the big idea candidate, bernie sanders, is the true progressive, we've got clinton who has been making actual progress throughout her public career.

I'd rather bet on the achiever than the believer myself.

Holy shit you are delusional....

Hillary is 100% corporatist! The only thing she cares about is herself, money, and power. That's it!

Progress!? The only thing she has ever done is fail at every position she has ever had! Name one progressive thing she has actually accomplished!?

Without her name, she would be nothing!
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
It's not my case to make. I've already stated my relative indifference to Hillary given her political alignment as a centrist with a few random liberal tendencies. She certainly ain't some progressive champion. Politics nowadays has realigned things so that people like Hillary are essentially conservatives of the classic definition, fighting to maintain status quo of achievements from days past like The Great Society and New Deal. If she gets elected so what? You'll have a "Democrat" in office whose ambition stops with preserving the poorly constructed Obamacare and perhaps engaging in a few more proactive neoconservative conflicts in the Middle East. If you want Dubya and Obama in a new wrapper then enjoy.
Even if we accept that as true (which it isn't because Obama and Hillary are both a far cry from Bush) we'd still prefer that to any of the GOP candidates that will promptly jump on top of America, put a pillow over her face and start stabbing wildly.
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
Even if we accept that as true (which it isn't because Obama and Hillary are both a far cry from Bush) we'd still prefer that to any of the GOP candidates that will promptly jump on top of America, put a pillow over her face and start stabbing wildly.

I Googled that and Google asked: "Did you mean change?"

People want America to change because they see it going down the wrong path. Declining. Don't make me bury you in charts and graphs à la H. Ross Perot.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
I Googled that and Google asked: "Did you mean change?"

People want America to change because they see it going down the wrong path. Declining. Don't make me bury you in charts and graphs à la H. Ross Perot.

I can't help it if most people can't see straight.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
I'll say this, if Hillary does win she had better pick a "liberal". Repubs wanted to shit on the process and make it political, then Hillary should make it political.

That's exactly why they would approve Obama's nominee should she win. I'm not sure how the process works but can Obama pull his nominee and nominate someone else whenever he wants? So if Hillary wins can he nominate a much more liberal judge and shove it down the repubs throats?
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
I assume Obama agreed to the deal since he selected Garland instead of the more diverse choices.

Even if someone fillibusters, Obama just needs a few Dem votes for cloture, right?

Why would Obama agree to this? If Hilary wins I would expect an even more liberal pick. Why would she back down. She has 4 years to get a pick. Can the Republicans (if they control congress) garner the political will to not to fill that seat and trash all her picks for 4 years? The Republican's hands are tied and I see no incentive for Obama to untie it for them given their attempt at obstruction.

I really don't get Republican long term strategy. They are very good at short term obstruction (maybe their goal was to get Obama to pick a middle road judge), but I don't think anyone in the Senate believes Trump will win a national election.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,602
29,319
136
Why would Obama agree to this? If Hilary wins I would expect an even more liberal pick. Why would she back down. She has 4 years to get a pick. Can the Republicans (if they control congress) garner the political will to not to fill that seat and trash all her picks for 4 years? The Republican's hands are tied and I see no incentive for Obama to untie it for them given their attempt at obstruction.

I really don't get Republican long term strategy. They are very good at short term obstruction (maybe their goal was to get Obama to pick a middle road judge, but I don't think anyone in the Senate believes Trump will win a national election.

They still think they can somehow stop Trump.
 

stlc8tr

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2011
1,106
4
76
Why would Obama agree to this? If Hilary wins I would expect an even more liberal pick. Why would she back down. She has 4 years to get a pick. Can the Republicans (if they control congress) garner the political will to not to fill that seat and trash all her picks for 4 years? The Republican's hands are tied and I see no incentive for Obama to untie it for them given their attempt at obstruction.

I assume Obama agreed to the deal because he wants to chose the nominee so he gets credit in the history books instead of Hillary. They aren't even friends so why would he give Hillary the chance?

Perhaps the Republicans told Obama to send over his short list once it has been determined and if any of the nominees are acceptable to them for a lame duck confirmation, they would let him know. Out of the three choices, Garland was the one that they would confirm so they let Obama know and Obama went ahead with Garland.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I Googled that and Google asked: "Did you mean change?"

People want America to change because they see it going down the wrong path. Declining. Don't make me bury you in charts and graphs à la H. Ross Perot.

It's only in decline for the 99%. The financial elite are doing better than ever.

What sort of policy has enabled this?

Could it be... Trickle down Reaganomics?

Couldn't be!
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
No, Hillary is a progressive, probably an OG one at that, her problem is that she isn't a politician (more accurately she is a horrible politician). If she had a quarter of the political capability as her husband she'd make bernie look like the centrist. While you think the big idea candidate, bernie sanders, is the true progressive, we've got clinton who has been making actual progress throughout her public career.

I'd rather bet on the achiever than the believer myself.

Watch as she "achieves" some more free trade for us.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
I assume Obama agreed to the deal because he wants to chose the nominee so he gets credit in the history books instead of Hillary. They aren't even friends so why would he give Hillary the chance?

Perhaps the Republicans told Obama to send over his short list once it has been determined and if any of the nominees are acceptable to them for a lame duck confirmation, they would let him know. Out of the three choices, Garland was the one that they would confirm so they let Obama know and Obama went ahead with Garland.

I don't think Obama would do that. That would be his final act and it would be caving to a obstructionist GOP. My opinion of him would change drastically. It has already because of this pick.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Watch as she "achieves" some more free trade for us.

Who was the last president to oppose free trade? You, like bernie himself, are being too idealistic. Opposing free trade in practice doesn't jive with political realities.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
106
Who was the last president to oppose free trade? You, like bernie himself, are being too idealistic. Opposing free trade in practice doesn't jive with political realities.

Yep. The common mans perception of free trade is they take our jerbs and move them somewhere cheap in order to screw their fellow Americans. On the flip side, that same common man walks into a Walmart and walks past the higher priced American made widget for the lower priced widget made in China.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Yep. The common mans perception of free trade is they take our jerbs and move them somewhere cheap in order to screw their fellow Americans. On the flip side, that same common man walks into a Walmart and walks past the higher priced American made widget for the lower priced widget made in China.

True, but then you have the good American who wants to buy "made in America" and picks up the product with the "USA" sticker on it, not knowing that it was only packaged in America.

I'll take the candidate that has realistic policies that will actually address the problem while adhering to the reality of the situation. Did instance, I'll take the candidate who will make inversions, more and more companies are using, less attractive. I'll take the candidate that will put forth tighter restrictions on companies who violate the spirit of the law for made in America labeling.

No free trade sounds good but the reality says that every president will eventually support a free trade agreement.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136

I assume Obama agreed to the deal since he selected Garland instead of the more diverse choices.

Even if someone fillibusters, Obama just needs a few Dem votes for cloture, right?

Why does it have to be some kind of conspiracy? Why can't it be Obama the pragmatist trying to fill the vacancy for the good of the Court & the Country?

What about some respect for Merrick Garland & the institution of the Court itself?

I get that Repubs want to play games about it as an attention getting & base pandering device & that they'll def stretch it out past the primaries & the convention.

Fine. Be assholes. Don't think it won't hurt you in November if you leave the Court shorthanded when it goes into session in October.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Yep. The common mans perception of free trade is they take our jerbs and move them somewhere cheap in order to screw their fellow Americans. On the flip side, that same common man walks into a Walmart and walks past the higher priced American made widget for the lower priced widget made in China.

Shee-it, Sherlock. Walmart doesn't even carry the American made widget anymore. They're trying to run their Chinese manufacturers into bankruptcy just like they did Americans before them.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
So it sees that Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it too regarding the supreme court nomination. They have said that they might take up Obama's nominee in the lame duck period if Hillary wins the election, which of course raises a couple of contradictions in itself

1. I thought the American people should decide? Does this not apply if it's not a Republican president?
2. Did they suddenly remember that a president is not considered a lame duck for the entire last year of his presidency?

With that said, should democrats make clear that if Hillary wins, and especially if they take back the senate, that they will withdraw this pick so Hillary can make the pick, presumably someone much younger and more liberal? Would be hilarious to watch Republicans suddenly claim obstruction in this case, and I have no doubt they would try.

oh please.. the Dems will just rollover and say sure, your 'have your cake and eat it too' fantasy plan sounds great and we'll let you off the hook and wont make another fuss about it again till Nov.

Obama should keep shoving this Supreme Court issue down the Repubs throats for the next 7months.
Have them deepthroat you HARD, Mr President!
 
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