Supreme Court- Kennedy set to retire is more bad new for Dems.

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Because its true. The opinion sections of just about every major newspaper are going into full hysterics.

If you look at the names floating around, many of the candidates have a connection to Kennedy, and none seem like far right ideologues.

The Democrats will find it hard to sway public opinion against Kavanaugh, Barrett or Kethledge.

Now if Trump goes full Trump and nominates say Giuliani, then there is something to get hysterical about.
Gorsuch is a right wing ideologue. An educated one but one nonetheless.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Makes a great point not to wait till the elections. Not that it matters since Republicans will probably pick up 3 to 5 seats in November.
I actually agree with you. Dems will retake the house, lose a couple of seats in the Senate and probably RBG resigns in year 3 or 4 of Trump's presidency and we do this fight all over again except then it won't matter.

Lots of blame to go around for this cluster. Don't really see any sort of easy win other than a massive unexpected blue in November which I just don't see happening.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,947
20,216
136
Not least the ossified state of the D party with same old career cynical politicians. If that were not the case, the vile one would not be in WH today.

You should be blaming Fox News quite a bit there too, it's not often an entire channel is dedicated to electing one political party, a channel that is viewed by quite a few Americans as credible. Whose ratings increased in rapid bursts during two tumultuous events the last 20 years - the Iraq War and Obama's election. It now has almost twice as many viewers as it's next rival, CNN. It's tough to overcome that. The ties between Fox and Trump are also now becoming increasingly tighter. ALso how much Fox Lies is becoming greater and greater.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I hope everybody understands what will happen here. Trump will nominate another right wing ideologue & the GOP Senate will confirm them, likely before the election.. For the GOP faithful, hypocrisy doesn't matter if they're winning.

But her emails! Crooked Hillary! Lock her up!
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Just curious, why is this news bad for democrats.....
in particular?

Are you saying that republicans don't like affordable healthcare?
Or might not desire some type of universal healthcare?
It's not like there aren't republicans out there in the need of healthcare, and preferably without going bankrupt.
I bet there are plenty of republicans with very ill children, or a spouse fighting cancer, or an immediate family member undergoing expensive care.

Same goes for every other issue as well.
I'm sure many republican women prefer on deciding their own reproductive options. Might even need an abortion. Or possibly their underage sweet child made a terrible mistake with the boy next door.
Maybe that child's parents, republicans, would decide an abortion might be best?

No doubt a lot of those same republican women might want to be treated fairly and with respect in the workplace. And to expect equal pay, the same pay as their male counterparts?

I could go on and on.
But to assume another religious fanatic sitting on the US Supreme Court is a good thing for all republicans and would be a bad thing for only democrats?
I doubt that very much.

Freedom and progression is a funny thing....
There are people that fight tooth and nail against some seemingly liberal idea, but when that liberal idea becomes law then suddenly people actually like it.
Especially the republican.
And they can't imagine never having it.
Can't imagine going back before they had it.
And typically, they even forgot how or why they opposed the idea in the first place.
But once it becomes law, people tend to enjoy having it, what ever it is.

Yes, freedom and progression is a funny thing indeed.
Whether with technology or social issues or civil rights or equality, once folks experience it despite how they were opposed to the idea, they might actually like it.
And want it. Embrace it.
And with this Donald Trump court decision, I would bet we will see just as many republicans insisting Donald Trump do the right thing as we will see democrats.
Isn't freedom and progress a funny human emotion?
Something people actually desire if only given a little thought.

Oh sure.... democrats are freaking ever since this Supreme Court thing popped up out of nowhere.
Still, I'm betting we will see a lot of republicans freaking out as well should Trump pick some religious nutcase that assuredly will vote to ban all abortion, vote to screw with civil rights, vote to screw with healthcare, and vote to screw with what a woman can do with her body.
Especially, if as Donald Trump has openly said, women should be punished who dare decide for themselves.

Trump believes women should be seen and not heard.
That women should "obey" every law which Donald Trump choses to impose upon women.
And Donald Trump believes that women should be forced to be baby machines.
Or.... face harsh punishment and harsh consequences.
Well....
Lets just wait and see how the female sex feels about THAT....
Especially those republican women.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
As long as there is an ongoing investigation (Mueller),
There can be no nomination!
This is a better line of reasoning. Sotomayor received her confirmation before a midterm election, so Republicans could argue that because the President nonimates candidates, that shouldn’t happen in an election year. You can thank Harry Reid for giving them the procedural mechanism to pull it off.

Even if Democrats want to try to make it an apples to oranges thing, they won’t succeed because they currently lack the leverage to stop it.

The Democrats could make an argument that a President under investigation for collusion with a foreign power should lose the executive privilege to nominate a justice until the investigation is complete. That is a stronger and more compelling argument.
 
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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
This is a better line of reasoning. Sotomayor received her confirmation before a midterm election, so Republicans could argue that because the President nonimates candidates, that shouldn’t happen in an election year. You can thank Harry Reid for giving them the procedural mechanism to pull it off.

Even if Democrats want to try to make it an apples to oranges thing, they won’t succeed because they currently lack the leverage to stop it.

The Democrats could make an argument that a President under investigation for collusion with a foreign power should lose the executive privilege to nominate a justice until the investigation is complete. That is a stronger and more compelling argument.

Here's a yeah, but....
If that could be done to the President, then his hands would be tied, therefore, not being able to be President or govern. That's a huge reach, assuming guilt, until proven guilty. I get it that some people would like to see him hanging from the highest tree, but there is also a process. If you want to make that argument, it could also be said that Clinton should not have been allowed to run, while she was under investigation. None of us know what the end of this investigation looks like. It could be something or may not be anything, at the end of the road. If the Mueller investigation ends and does not result in any finding that Trump colluded with the Russians, or did anything unlawful with them, then what will you have to say? Would you demand another investigation, because that one wasn't good enough?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Maximum 4 out of 10 vote in mid terms. I think it’s more percentage of Rs. But let’s be generous and say it’s 2 each. Out of that 2 on D side, at best 0.75 would know anything about Supreme Court. That is a very generous assessment. So the issue of SC matters to 0.75 out of 10 Americans, if that.

People like us who are politics junkies vastly overestimate ourselves.

A factor that motivates 7.5% of Americans to vote in a midterm election who otherwise would not is a huge amount.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
This is a better line of reasoning. Sotomayor received her confirmation before a midterm election, so Republicans could argue that because the President nonimates candidates, that shouldn’t happen in an election year. You can thank Harry Reid for giving them the procedural mechanism to pull it off.

Even if Democrats want to try to make it an apples to oranges thing, they won’t succeed because they currently lack the leverage to stop it.

Let’s be clear here, it didn’t matter what Reid did in the slightest. Anyone who thinks McConnell would not have eliminated the appointments filibuster as soon as it became inconvenient here is deluding themselves.

The Democrats could make an argument that a President under investigation for collusion with a foreign power should lose the executive privilege to nominate a justice until the investigation is complete. That is a stronger and more compelling argument.

In a sane world this would be a very powerful argument, especially considering it is fairly likely that before this is all over SCOTUS will have to make some sort of ruling that could lead to the president’s impeachment (or worse). Should someone be appointing their own future judge?

That being said, Republicans won’t care about that argument either. If they were actually interested in holding the president accountable there would have been about 100 other things they could have done before this. They don’t care.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,814
136
Republicans bottled up Obama's appointments with cloture and blue slips creating a massive number of vacancies that the Republicans hoped to fill. Eliminating the filibuster for appointments was the only logical thing to do in the face of such a breach of Senate norms.

The only thing that not eliminating it would have done is meant 20 some fewer Obama appointments getting confirmed.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Here's a yeah, but....
If that could be done to the President, then his hands would be tied, therefore, not being able to be President or govern. That's a huge reach, assuming guilt, until proven guilty. I get it that some people would like to see him hanging from the highest tree, but there is also a process. If you want to make that argument, it could also be said that Clinton should not have been allowed to run, while she was under investigation. None of us know what the end of this investigation looks like. It could be something or may not be anything, at the end of the road. If the Mueller investigation ends and does not result in any finding that Trump colluded with the Russians, or did anything unlawful with them, then what will you have to say? Would you demand another investigation, because that one wasn't good enough?
Well what does our illustrious president say about it.

“El Presidente” said:
If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do folks - (followed by some 2nd amendment suggestions I won’t repeat)
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Republicans bottled up Obama's appointments with cloture and blue slips creating a massive number of vacancies that the Republicans hoped to fill. Eliminating the filibuster for appointments was the only logical thing to do in the face of such a breach of Senate norms.

The only thing that not eliminating it would have done is meant 20 some fewer Obama appointments getting confirmed.

This is symptomatic with a deficiency in our Constitution about the Senate "advise and consent" clause. As you point out if abused it can lead to results like this. Preferrably we'd adjust it so that nominations not decided upon within x days were automatically considered confirmed unless a supermajority of some kind voted to extend the time for consideration with a future vote scheduled for a date certain. Heck, in an ideal world appointments for SCOTUS and senior federal judges would be "term limited" as well where they served on active status for a number of years then went on reserve status and used in cases where one of the active status judges needed to recuse, etc. If we made the "active status" term for SCOTUS be 18 years it would mean every 2 years the POTUS would nominate one and it would take a lot of the unnecessary drama out of things.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
. If we made the "active status" term for SCOTUS be 18 years it would mean every 2 years the POTUS would nominate one and it would take a lot of the unnecessary drama out of things.

I really like this suggestion. I'm not particularly fond of "lifetime appointments". I don't think it's good for the person in the position, I don't think it's good for the country, I don't think it's good for hyper partisan competition of fighting for a chance to nominate a new judge.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,814
136
This is symptomatic with a deficiency in our Constitution about the Senate "advise and consent" clause. As you point out if abused it can lead to results like this. Preferrably we'd adjust it so that nominations not decided upon within x days were automatically considered confirmed unless a supermajority of some kind voted to extend the time for consideration with a future vote scheduled for a date certain. Heck, in an ideal world appointments for SCOTUS and senior federal judges would be "term limited" as well where they served on active status for a number of years then went on reserve status and used in cases where one of the active status judges needed to recuse, etc. If we made the "active status" term for SCOTUS be 18 years it would mean every 2 years the POTUS would nominate one and it would take a lot of the unnecessary drama out of things.

In concept this is seems logical and fair but would need an amendment to execute.

Somebody will try to pack the court first.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
In a sane world this would be a very powerful argument, especially considering it is fairly likely that before this is all over SCOTUS will have to make some sort of ruling that could lead to the president’s impeachment (or worse). Should someone be appointing their own future judge?

Realistically if SCOTUS has to make a ruling that would greatly affect a Trump impeachment proceeding the judges that he nominated should recuse themselves as they have an inherent bias.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Realistically if SCOTUS has to make a ruling that would greatly affect a Trump impeachment proceeding the judges that he nominated should recuse themselves as they have an inherent bias.

They should. I’m sure some democrat in the senate will ask this question of the next nominee and I’m sure the nominee will say sure.

Then when it happens will they?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
They should. I’m sure some democrat in the senate will ask this question of the next nominee and I’m sure the nominee will say sure.

Then when it happens will they?

If not it could be seen as a reason to impeach them.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
This is a better line of reasoning. Sotomayor received her confirmation before a midterm election, so Republicans could argue that because the President nonimates candidates, that shouldn’t happen in an election year. You can thank Harry Reid for giving them the procedural mechanism to pull it off.

Even if Democrats want to try to make it an apples to oranges thing, they won’t succeed because they currently lack the leverage to stop it.

The Democrats could make an argument that a President under investigation for collusion with a foreign power should lose the executive privilege to nominate a justice until the investigation is complete. That is a stronger and more compelling argument.
https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1012467963486752785
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
This is a better line of reasoning. Sotomayor received her confirmation before a midterm election, so Republicans could argue that because the President nonimates candidates, that shouldn’t happen in an election year. You can thank Harry Reid for giving them the procedural mechanism to pull it off.

Even if Democrats want to try to make it an apples to oranges thing, they won’t succeed because they currently lack the leverage to stop it.

The Democrats could make an argument that a President under investigation for collusion with a foreign power should lose the executive privilege to nominate a justice until the investigation is complete. That is a stronger and more compelling argument.
I think it's a bit too late for that. He's already nominated and selected a justice (gorsuch).
Better argument really is that justices involved in those cases (ie trump impeachment, collusion, etc) should recuse themselves.
 
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