Supreme Court rules nonunion workers cannot be forced to pay fees to public sector unions

[zinfamous]

I'm somewhat mixed about this, but in most of these systems I am aware that there is an opt-out option for employees that don't wish to contribute. ...I'm now curious if this will lead to lawsuits and I if some time soon I will get some mail telling me that 7 years of paychecks from my previous employer will now entitle me to some sort of backpay on those fees, that I knew about, and yet still didn't opt out. Our healthcare and retirement options essentially remained intact because of the Union and helped all employees under their purview, and so even though I never registered as a member, I didn't really mind paying the fee.

It's blatantly obvious that I benefited from their work. But hey, if they decide that I am owed a grand or so, a few years later, whatevs?

 

[trenchfoot]

Heh, just wait 'til eight hour work days, weekends off, holidays, vacation days, sick leave, maternity leave, medical benefits and the right to negotiate fair wages that unions have bargained for in blood, yes, real blood all of which most folks who are working class take for granted gets whittled away because "unions have no place in society anymore" or so they were told.

I agree that in instances where management is caring and compassionate for their employees, unions aren't needed. This follows the simple logic that unions exist where they are needed and don't exist where they're not.

But here we have those corporatists whose only concern is wringing maximum profit out of their workers and to hell with providing safe and long term employment for them, and they are pushing hard to eliminate those hard won benefits that unions have fought and literally bled and died for.

The GOP is their weapon of choice and they are winning this battle. For those working class folks who think their weekends are their own, who think all the benefits they enjoy from their employers are their "right" to have, well good luck with that dream. If you don't keep fighting to keep those "rights" (heh) you WILL lose ALL of them and organized labor is THE most effective way to keep the slave drivers at bay.

It's just that simple.

 

[brycejones]

Heh, just wait 'til eight hour work days, weekends off, holidays, vacation days, sick leave, maternity leave, medical benefits and the right to negotiate fair wages that unions have bargained for in blood, yes, real blood all of which most folks who are working class take for granted gets whittled away because "unions have no place in society anymore" or so they were told.

I agree that in instances where management is caring and compassionate for their employees, unions aren't needed. This follows the simple logic that unions exist where they are needed and don't exist where they're not.

But here we have those corporatists whose only concern is wringing maximum profit out of their workers and to hell with providing safe and long term employment for them, and they are pushing hard to eliminate those hard won benefits that unions have fought and literally bled and died for.

The GOP is their weapon of choice and they are winning this battle. For those working class folks who think their weekends are their own, who think all the benefits they enjoy from their employers are their "right" to have, well good luck with that dream. If you don't keep fighting to keep those "rights" (heh) you WILL lose ALL of them and organized labor is THE most effective way to keep the slave drivers at bay.

It's just that simple.

First they came for the line workers and I ignored them because they were lazy and uneducated. Then they came for the professional employees and I ignored them because smart people will always get a better deal and I'm really smart. Then they came for the public sector workers and I said f-them they need to work for free so I pay less in taxes and who cares about clean water. Finally they came for the teachers and I said forget that because they are a bunch of smarty pants liberals who are really glorified daycare workers trying to corrupt America. Finally they came for my vacation, healthcare, and pension and I said "WE MUST GIVE THE WEALTHY BIGGER TAX CUTS SO IT CAN TRICKLE DOWN" and voted for Trump because only he can fix it all.

Finally they laid me off and sent my job to Europe because they didn't have to deal with bilateral trade wars there. I'm glad I've done my part to MAGA.

- Requiem of a Trump Supporter

 

[Exterous]

I'm divided on this. On one hand it's nothing more than a shakedown you couldn't opt out of (short of not working there). On the other hand the collective bargaining power of unions does help raise the rates of everyone working that occupation. So it's not like it something for nothing. I do think it's one more crack in the weakening power that unions hold though. I'm not certain that is a good thing given the power and inequality between employers and employees at this point in time.

I agree. My wife had to contribute to a union despite them doing nothing to help her. Due to a unique situation for her and just a few others she has not benefited from any of the raise\benefit negotiations that the more populous groups have and is completely ignored by the union. Its tough to see all that money flow out of her paycheck for a union rep that won't even return her calls. This is not to say they don't have their place but once established there is little impetus to care about or return value to the members beyond just enough to stay elected\unionized.

 

[Genx87]

Heh, just wait 'til eight hour work days, weekends off, holidays, vacation days, sick leave, maternity leave, medical benefits and the right to negotiate fair wages that unions have bargained for in blood, yes, real blood all of which most folks who are working class take for granted gets whittled away because "unions have no place in society anymore" or so they were told.

I agree that in instances where management is caring and compassionate for their employees, unions aren't needed. This follows the simple logic that unions exist where they are needed and don't exist where they're not.

But here we have those corporatists whose only concern is wringing maximum profit out of their workers and to hell with providing safe and long term employment for them, and they are pushing hard to eliminate those hard won benefits that unions have fought and literally bled and died for.

The GOP is their weapon of choice and they are winning this battle. For those working class folks who think their weekends are their own, who think all the benefits they enjoy from their employers are their "right" to have, well good luck with that dream. If you don't keep fighting to keep those "rights" (heh) you WILL lose ALL of them and organized labor is THE most effective way to keep the slave drivers at bay.

It's just that simple.

Are you suggesting our benevolent govt would screw over their employees like you describe above?

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree. My wife was contribute to a union despite them doing nothing to help her. Due to a unique situation for her and just a few others she has not benefited from any of the raise\benefit negotiations that the more populous groups have and is completely ignored by the union. Its tough to see all that money flow out of her paycheck for a union rep that won't even return her calls. This is not to say they don't have their place but once established there is little impetus to care about or return value to the members beyond just enough to stay elected\unionized.

Bullshit. How did the union do on healthcare & other benefits? Disciplinary representation? How did they do for the vast majority of members?

Unions aren't perfect. OTOH, ask your wife how badly the management could fuck up the work environment w/o the union.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you suggesting our benevolent govt would screw over their employees like you describe above?

You really don't understand how bureaucracies work, do you?

Republicans plan on fucking them with privatization. More investment opportunities, more profit, lower labor overhead.

Doesn't mean it will work as well, just that there's profit potential that didn't exist previously.

 

[Exterous]

Bullshit.

So you have no actual knowledge about her situation but feel compelled to refute my claim anyway? How absurd.

How did the union do on healthcare & other benefits?

She doesn't get healthcare through them. But since you asked its generally quite poor even for those that do get it. Every single one of my private health\dental\vision\legal coverage has not only been better but cheaper. Pension is decided at the state level as are required days worked and numerous other factors.

Disciplinary representation?

Not governed by the union contract for her and the others like her.

How did they do for the vast majority of members?

I'm not sure nor was my post addressing that

OTOH, ask your wife how badly the management could fuck up the work environment w/o the union.

Considering the union contract has almost no coverage for her its unlikely they could fuck up anything for her.

Edit: The state laws have far more control over her work environment than management or the union

 

[trenchfoot]

Are you suggesting our benevolent govt would screw over their employees like you describe above?

If it's run by the Republicans who are bought and owned outright by big business and the donor class, then of course. They're doing it right at this very moment and every chance they've had, are having and will be having.

 

[cytg111]

Cause the taxcut to the 1% wasnt enough...

 

[Zaap]

Heh, just wait 'til eight hour work days, weekends off, holidays, vacation days, sick leave, maternity leave, medical benefits and the blah blah blah.

You seem to have missed where Americans are 'lazy' because they want all those things, yet industries can encourage someone to cross a line (not a picket line, but a border) and out goes all that. You might as well throw in $1.25 an hour.

Welcome to the "Jobs Americans won't do!" reality that many have been conned into preaching for decades now! Welcome to "you're a racist." If you point it out as the cheating shit it is.

Ohhhhh... that's right! It's always and forever going to be someone else's job turned to shit, not yours! You're special!

People crowing on about Unions when they forgot all about the main Union they are part of called the United States... your words on this subject are completely hollow.

Cheering for rampant cheating of the labor laws, ingnoring the march of 'jobs Americans won't do!" and actually touting up illegal labor as more hard working and better than citizen labor precisely because people work for decrease benefits, ungodly hours and peanut wages...

...then you want to whine when business does EXACTLY as you've cheered for them to?

Laughable.

 

[Jhhnn]

Cause the taxcut to the 1% wasnt enough...

It never is. They have us paying them with the most recent tax cut.

"Such a deal we have for you! Borrow trillions from us. Give most of it back to us as taxcuts. Pay us interest forever. You might make a few thousand on the deal. It will all trickle down, honest."

 

[Jhhnn]

You seem to have missed where Americans are 'lazy' because they want all those things, yet industries can encourage someone to cross a line (not a picket line, but a border) and out goes all that. You might as well throw in $1.25 an hour.

Welcome to the "Jobs Americans won't do!" reality that many have been conned into preaching for decades now! Welcome to "you're a racist." If you point it out as the cheating shit it is.

Ohhhhh... that's right! It's always and forever going to be someone else's job turned to shit, not yours! You're special!

People crowing on about Unions when they forgot all about the main Union they are part of called the United States... your words on this subject are completely hollow.

Cheering for rampant cheating of the labor laws, ingnoring the march of 'jobs Americans won't do!" and actually touting up illegal labor as more hard working and better than citizen labor precisely because people work for decrease benefits, ungodly hours and peanut wages...

...then you want to whine when business does EXACTLY as you've cheered for them to?

Laughable.

Hey- maybe if they were legal they'd join a Union....

 

[TStep]

I'm 100% for private sector unionization. Having physically labored and managed in both union and non-union environment, I can see the benefits and baggage that both carry. There are consequences to non performance.

I also have to deal with public agencies that are unionized. I cannot fathom a situation outside of crapping your pants daily that could possibly get you fired. Consequences for non performance are non existent. There lies difference. Given the public sector tolerance of abysmal performance, I cannot possibly see how unionization could protect workers rights more than already tolerated.

 

[Zaap]

Hey- maybe if they were legal they'd join a Union....

Says one of the top cheerleaders for illegal labor to cross a line and do jobs for less than the legit labor force's agreed minimumns!

YOU of all people got nerve to yap about effective Unions when you cheerlead to undermine the one you live in DAILY.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm 100% for private sector unionization. Having physically labored and managed in both union and non-union environment, I can see the benefits and baggage that both carry. There are consequences to non performance.

I also have to deal with public agencies that are unionized. I cannot fathom a situation outside of crapping your pants daily that could possibly get you fired. Consequences for non performance are non existent. There lies difference. Given the public sector tolerance of abysmal performance, I cannot possibly see how unionization could protect workers rights more than already tolerated.

I was a public sector union employee for decades & that was not my experience.

 

[Jhhnn]

Says one of the top cheerleaders for illegal labor to cross a line and do jobs for less than the legit labor force's agreed minimumns!

YOU of all people got nerve to yap about effective Unions when you cheerlead to undermine the one you live in DAILY.

When did I say that? Quote me.

 

[cytg111]

I'm 100% for private sector unionization. Having physically labored and managed in both union and non-union environment, I can see the benefits and baggage that both carry. There are consequences to non performance.

I also have to deal with public agencies that are unionized. I cannot fathom a situation outside of crapping your pants daily that could possibly get you fired. Consequences for non performance are non existent. There lies difference. Given the public sector tolerance of abysmal performance, I cannot possibly see how unionization could protect workers rights more than already tolerated.

Truth in that.
I would like to add that over the years I have come to realize that there is a big difference in what a person is capable of, some might get stressed out just thinking about next weeks workload while another can have what seems like unlimited capacity. I know this cause I have railed on colleagues for not getting their shit together and I having to carry them to some extent - with the only effects being that they got stressed out and a hostile working environment. It is not always just an "attitude problem".. And I do believe there should be a job for everybody.

 

[TStep]

I was a public sector union employee for decades & that was not my experience.

Thankfully for you the experience was positive. I cannot say the same. Were promotions based on performance or seniority? One example that sticks with me is promotions to equipment operator positions based on seniority not ability. This can be a direct path to an injury or death on a crew. It is accepted since seniority is a deciding factor when positions open up and grievance procedures will be initiated if handled differently.

 

[TStep]

Truth in that.
I would like to add that over the years I have come to realize that there is a big difference in what a person is capable of, some might get stressed out just thinking about next weeks workload while another can have what seems like unlimited capacity. I know this cause I have railed on colleagues for not getting their shit together and I having to carry them to some extent - with the only effects being that they got stressed out and a hostile working environment. It is not always just an "attitude problem".. And I do believe there should be a job for everybody.

Same here. Everyone starts with an ability range. Then work environment takes over. Getting the best out of personnel is creating the best possible environment. If given the ability, the good apples will weed out the bad. Over protection of personnel stunts this process.

 

[1prophet]

Hey- maybe if they were legal they'd join a Union....

Yeah, the old bullshit lie that the Democrat controlled congress banked on and the unions back then warned them against going along with it when Reagan legalized them which is right up there with his trickle down bullshit.

We belong to a Union called the United States of America and if the Democrats took care of the working class like in the past instead of playing social justice identity politics on the front stage while playing republican lite to corporate lobbyists on the backstage,

maybe just maybe someone like Trump would still be playing his reality show in the Trump house instead of in the White House.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah, the old bullshit lie that the Democrat controlled congress banked on and the unions back then warned them against going along with it when Reagan legalized them which is right up there with his trickle down bullshit.

We belong to a Union called the United States of America and if the Democrats took care of the working class like in the past instead of playing social justice identity politics on the front stage while playing republican lite to corporate lobbyists on the backstage,

maybe just maybe someone like Trump would still be playing his reality show in the Trump house instead of in the White House.

Democrats have depended on Unions to help take care of working people. It was baked into the New Deal. Reagan changed that.

 

[Victorian Gray]

First they came for the line workers and I ignored them because they were lazy and uneducated. Then they came for the professional employees and I ignored them because smart people will always get a better deal and I'm really smart. Then they came for the public sector workers and I said f-them they need to work for free so I pay less in taxes and who cares about clean water. Finally they came for the teachers and I said forget that because they are a bunch of smarty pants liberals who are really glorified daycare workers trying to corrupt America. Finally they came for my vacation, healthcare, and pension and I said "WE MUST GIVE THE WEALTHY BIGGER TAX CUTS SO IT CAN TRICKLE DOWN" and voted for Trump because only he can fix it all.

Finally they laid me off and sent my job to Europe because they didn't have to deal with bilateral trade wars there. I'm glad I've done my part to MAGA.

- Requiem of a Trump Supporter

Nicely done.

 

[SP33Demon]

Working class will suffer the most from gutting of the unions, as has been the case since it has started.

Except you're missing important variables such as global outsourcing, but nice cherry-picked graph.

 

[SP33Demon]

Wonder if Trump fumes every time she speaks.
Starts complaining about how shes an illegal who stole that spot from a white man with obviously superior genes.

I doubt Trump gives a shit now that he's going to pick another Justice and the Democreeps are one old heartbeat away from Ginsburg croaking. Quick, better get her some cybernetic implants and put her on lifesupport until 2025 when the Democreeps have a remote chance of winning again.