Surface 3 announced

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zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
well it's Pro for a reason ^_^

I know but $700 for a decked out Surface 3 is still a good bit less than the bottom of the barrel Pro 3 once you add in the keyboard and is probably more usable as a tablet as well. I think this thing does have a niche.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
I can't remember if my Surface Pro 3 keyboard did this. But I just noticed the Fn key is now a toggle. I press it and the light on the Fn key comes on and I can use the F key row as F keys.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,182
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I know but $700 for a decked out Surface 3 is still a good bit less than the bottom of the barrel Pro 3 once you add in the keyboard and is probably more usable as a tablet as well. I think this thing does have a niche.

That's the problem though, Microsoft wants this to be a mass market device, but it's less of one than the Pro is as that can more realistically replace an ultrabook and provides a more premium experience still.

If Microsoft wants to make inroads, this needed to be $500 and include the stylus with the type cover being a $50 add-on.

I will be really curious to see if Apple puts a stylus into their iPad Pros. Personally, if Apple had made a version of the normal iPad that came with a good digitizer and stylus, I would have bought it and they would be dominating the artsy crowd even more they already are. Microsoft has a niche they could be exploiting more, but they just don't seem to want to. I realize they can't just give them away, but they have to be more realistic if they really want to push adoption of new Windows. If I was Microsoft I would be pushing hard to offer bundles of the Surface 3 with stylus and type cover to schools for as cheap as they can (match the price Apple is asking for similar deals).

The cost of the stylus and keyboard and dock are all just way out of whack.

I can't remember if my Surface Pro 3 keyboard did this. But I just noticed the Fn key is now a toggle. I press it and the light on the Fn key comes on and I can use the F key row as F keys.

I believe they changed the Fn row on the Surface 3 even compared to the Surace Pro 3. Ars mentioned they changed it back to normal Fn setup when they used to have different keys there or something.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/surface-3-review-smaller-slower-cheaper-better/2/

The keyboard layout itself has been slightly updated as well. The fanciest feature is the Fn button. The Fn button now automatically acts as an Fn-lock; tapping it toggles the option on and off. It has an integrated indicator to show its status. For one-off access to the alternate set of F-key functions, pressing Fn plus the F-key works without changing the Fn-lock status. I'm a little surprised that I've not seen this style of Fn key before, since most systems need a particular combo for Fn-lock but few have an Fn-lock indicator light. It makes a lot of sense, so other manufacturers may start to copy Microsoft here.

The layout itself has also changed. Specifically, some of the F-key alternate functions have been switched. The four Windows 8 charm options have been replaced with Print Screen, keyboard backlight brightness controls, and Insert. It's a much better layout.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
Microsoft still wants to focus on the big business/office market. Except businesses aren't buying computers anymore. They're going to keep hammering on those old XP machines until they die. You only see tablets being used at hip Web 3.0 start ups. Those are the people they should be focusing on. Creative professionals. So there's definitely a missed opportunity in their marketing.

They've built a great tablet but they don't know how to sell it, or who to sell it to.

Who they're currently targeting with the Surface 3
-University Students
-Parents with small children
-On-the-go business professionals

Who, IMO, they should be targeting with the Surface 3
-Photographers
-Artists & Designers
-Web & app developers (the hip Web 3.0 crowd I talked about)

There's a golden opportunity to snipe Apple's crown as the creative development platform of choice.

Microsoft also needs to understand that Office isn't a big selling point anymore. It's not 1995. Office suites are a basic function, not a marketable feature. Both iOS and Android have their own suites, and they don't need a subscription. For the average consumer, Office is overkill.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I passed on the Surface 3. It still didn't display my VM's the way I wanted even with the extra resolution.

Picked up a i5/256GB/8GB SP3 with type cover and a slew of accessories for $800 off Craigslist. Posting hit right as I talked myself in to an i3 SP3. Good day for me!
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,414
1,574
126
I passed on the Surface 3. It still didn't display my VM's the way I wanted even with the extra resolution.

Picked up a i5/256GB/8GB SP3 with type cover and a slew of accessories for $800 off Craigslist. Posting hit right as I talked myself in to an i3 SP3. Good day for me!

that's a badass SP3 and a great price.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
that's a badass SP3 and a great price.

Yeah I just had to brag a little, lol. Ended up getting the SP3, type cover, two AC chargers, miniDP to HDMI, Microsoft Miracast Adapter and a sleeve for the $800. When I saw the posting I thought it was definitely stolen but the dude had original box and receipt for it. #blessed
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
I had a chance to play with one. IE performs quite well. Chrome and Opera do not. Its screen is perhaps the best calibrated LCD screen I have ever seen out-of-the-box, followed by Kindle HDX. It even plays 4K/30 content on YouTube without dropping frames. (though you will probably want to close background tasks)

Nevertheless, I still have a mixed feeling about it because Windows desktop just do not get along well with touch. I won't keep beating a dead horse but I wonder how consumers will respond.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
266
116
I had a chance to play with one. IE performs quite well. Chrome and Opera do not. Its screen is perhaps the best calibrated LCD screen I have ever seen out-of-the-box, followed by Kindle HDX. It even plays 4K/30 content on YouTube without dropping frames. (though you will probably want to close background tasks)

Nevertheless, I still have a mixed feeling about it because Windows desktop just do not get along well with touch. I won't keep beating a dead horse but I wonder how consumers will respond.

What was your impression of the overall tablet dimensions/weight compared to an older iPad 2 or 3?
 

xthetenth

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2014
1,800
529
106
I had a chance to play with one. IE performs quite well. Chrome and Opera do not. Its screen is perhaps the best calibrated LCD screen I have ever seen out-of-the-box, followed by Kindle HDX. It even plays 4K/30 content on YouTube without dropping frames. (though you will probably want to close background tasks)

Nevertheless, I still have a mixed feeling about it because Windows desktop just do not get along well with touch. I won't keep beating a dead horse but I wonder how consumers will respond.

I find the pen to be very helpful if not necessary for me to successfully use the desktop in tablet mode. With that and the handwriting on screen keyboard it's a pretty viable device even when using the desktop. If I expected to use the desktop a lot without using it as a pocket laptop I'd definitely get the pen.
 

imported_Amagus

Junior Member
Apr 5, 2005
3
0
0
I find the pen to be very helpful if not necessary for me to successfully use the desktop in tablet mode. With that and the handwriting on screen keyboard it's a pretty viable device even when using the desktop. If I expected to use the desktop a lot without using it as a pocket laptop I'd definitely get the pen.

There is utility called TouchMousePointer that may help if you're finding touch targets are too small in desktop mode. It has a full screen mode that basically turns the entire screen into a giant touch pad for mouse pointer control. It's pretty slick.

I'm had my Surface 3 for a week now and really like it (came from an iPad 3), other than it's glitchy and slow charging. The pen + OneNote is amazing for handwritten notes. Also, I got Civ 5 to run decently on the system so that was a big bonus.

I was debating between this and the Surface Pro 3 for a while, as with all the deals that keep popping up on the Pro 3 (eg I've seen the i5/128GB/4GB go for $800 brand new) it's not really that much more expensive than the regular 3. But the smaller size and lighter weight of the 3 clinched it for me since I plan to be using as a more as a tablet with the pen than a laptop. Sometimes size and weight is an important spec too, although I definitely would have paid more for a Surface 3 SKU with the same chassis that had Core M and PCIe SSD storage.
 
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Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
I was debating between this and the Surface Pro 3 for a while, as with all the deals that keep popping up on the Pro 3 (eg I've seen the i5/128GB/4GB go for $800 brand new) it's not really that much more expensive than the regular 3. But the smaller size and lighter weight of the 3 clinched it for me since I plan to be using as a more as a tablet with the pen than a laptop. Sometimes size and weight is an important spec too, although I definitely would have paid more for a Surface 3 SKU with the same chassis that had Core M and PCIe SSD storage.

I feel the same about my S3 vs SP3. I had the SP3 for a bit, but returned it, mostly because I wanted to use it more like a tablet and it was too big and heavy for that.

I really love the size and weight of the S3. Also the USB charging is pretty nice I can pretty much charge it more conveniently and not need to carry around a charger (I have USB chargers all over the place).

Performance has been great. Though I do occasionally notice the eMMC storage bottle necking things a bit. Kinda think Microsoft could have put an SSD in this thing without too much impact on the price.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
63
91
Do we have a general idea of when the Surface Pro 4 will come out? The rumored 14inch model looks mighty tempting.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
I feel the same about my S3 vs SP3. I had the SP3 for a bit, but returned it, mostly because I wanted to use it more like a tablet and it was too big and heavy for that.

I really love the size and weight of the S3. Also the USB charging is pretty nice I can pretty much charge it more conveniently and not need to carry around a charger (I have USB chargers all over the place).

Performance has been great. Though I do occasionally notice the eMMC storage bottle necking things a bit. Kinda think Microsoft could have put an SSD in this thing without too much impact on the price.

Yeah, it's like a quarter the performance of the Pro. Slower than the comparably priced iPad Air 2 even. Definitely an odd cost cutting measure given the price of the thing.

I know the SSD is upgradable on the Pro 3 (if you can get inside without breaking it), so be interesting to see if it is on the regular 3. Of course you could augment it with an external USB 3.0 SSD while in laptop mode. That makes it a more clunky device though.

I agree on the 10'' form factor. The Pro is a bit too big to be used as a regular tablet, which is mostly what I would use it for.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
A friend's daughter is getting into college this fall and asked me for a suggestion on light, thin 'laptop' that she could use for school (it was a pretty lengthy conversation, which I can summarized into: she wants a macbook air, but only have $500). Looks like the budget requirement is pretty tight too, as I came to them when Best Buy was having a sale for the latest base MBA for $750 (and told them that this is as cheap as it's going to get to get her exactly what she wants!), and they still didn't go for it.

Anyway, this Surface 3 works with the budget ($500), the usability would be perfect for college students, especially after adding the pen (and obviously the keyboard). I doubt she will need a lot of fire power, so this should be enough, and the hip factor is right up there, but my gut feeling says it's not a good idea. Anyone care to comment on this?
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Do we have a general idea of when the Surface Pro 4 will come out? The rumored 14inch model looks mighty tempting.

Rumors say it could be revealed this month, but probably not for sale late Summer with the release of Windows 10.

It was interesting that Best Buy just cleared out all of it's SP3 docking stations yesterday though.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
A friend's daughter is getting into college this fall and asked me for a suggestion on light, thin 'laptop' that she could use for school (it was a pretty lengthy conversation, which I can summarized into: she wants a macbook air, but only have $500). Looks like the budget requirement is pretty tight too, as I came to them when Best Buy was having a sale for the latest base MBA for $750 (and told them that this is as cheap as it's going to get to get her exactly what she wants!), and they still didn't go for it.

Anyway, this Surface 3 works with the budget ($500), the usability would be perfect for college students, especially after adding the pen (and obviously the keyboard). I doubt she will need a lot of fire power, so this should be enough, and the hip factor is right up there, but my gut feeling says it's not a good idea. Anyone care to comment on this?

The Surface 3 starts at $500 without the keyboard. To turn it into light and thin laptop will cost another $130. So now it's $630 (pen will be another $50 also if she wants it).

She can get some older used Macbook Airs for under $500.

If the 2-in-1 form factor is what she'd like, there are some decent ones like the ASUS T200 or Acer Switch 11, both well under $500.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
I got my Surface 3 last night. I'm honestly blown away by the device. The trackbpad on the new cover is excellent if a bit small, the inking in onenote is fantastic. I'm one of those weird people who found the windows store apps to be somewhat useful so I'm using apps when I can and falling back to desktop apps if I need to for the enhanced touch experience. I haven't noticed any slowness issues but I got this with the intention of taking notes with it and doing tablet related things, not as a laptop replacement.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,504
12
0
I went up to Best Buy today to check it out. Must say I am impressed with it. I take back what I said about the screen. It's lower res than my iPad but it seems to have better colour quality. Looks fantastic. Well built and it certainly felt plenty fast for general tablet use.

They had the 64GB i3 Pro 3 right next to it. CPU performance is about the same but you do get a much better display and faster SSD, plus the pen for just $200 more. They're not as bulky as I remember them being.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
My poor Surface 3 has a fine scratch on the back already. Not sure how it happened, but it made me a little sad to see it. I ordered a skin from Skinomi that I will put on the back to hide and protect it from any other scratches.

I'm also using a generic 10 inch tablet sleeve. It's a bit tight because it's for widescreed tablets, so I want to get a sleeve made just for the Surface 3. I went to Best Buy and they have a Belkin sleeve for the Surface 3, has a pocket for cables and a holder for the pen, I was kinda excited (except for the bright blue color). However I get to my car and tried to fit my Surface 3 into it and quickly find it's made for widescreen 10 inch tablets, not the Surface 3. I can zip it closed, but it's so tight it's denting the corners of the Type Cover. Ugh.

I need to find a REAL Surface 3 sleeve.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
How is everyone carrying their pen for their Surface? I initially tried the "Slip pen into the break in the type cover but I'm noticing it's like making the the type cover material warp a bit. I'm tempted to use the pen loop I have but the place Microsoft recommends covers their logo on the type cover.

I should just suck it up and put the loop on there.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Yeah, the pen annoys me because I have no good place to store this. I'm disappointed with Microsoft that they still haven't resolved this issues after all these years. This tablet should have a built in pen slot with a thinner pen.
 
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