Surface Laptop

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MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
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Well the thing is, not everyone is going to need it, like in your case, but this trend of shedding ports just because you can is irritating. Macbook Pros used to have ethernet ports, but didn't feel cumbersome, a lot of sleek business oriented laptops have them as well, why do ultrabooks have to drop them?

I know that "older" people see the usefulness in ethernet, and so did I (though I'm not really older). but honestly, who cares? Even my desktop at home is wifi. No problems whatsoever.

I think you overestimate wifi problems and ethernet usefulness a bit.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
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I know that "older" people see the usefulness in ethernet, and so did I (though I'm not really older). but honestly, who cares? Even my desktop at home is wifi. No problems whatsoever.

I think you overestimate wifi problems and ethernet usefulness a bit.
Sure, try playing a multiplayer game over WiFi.

That's like saying that who cares about external hard drives and USB ports when you can just have a premium Office 365 subscription.

I would not buy a laptop, let alone a desktop, that has no ethernet port.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
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Who DOES care about external harddrives these days?
USB usage has also dropped dramatically since the rise of googledrive/onedrive/facebook/youtube, at least in my circle.

Also, gamers are a vast minority.

Just saying, OEMs do not have the incentive to put those "obsolete" thingamajigs in consumer laptops. Though, in business or gaming, I suppose they do come, no?
 

tamz_msc

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Who DOES care about external harddrives these days?
USB usage has also dropped dramatically since the rise of googledrive/onedrive/facebook/youtube, at least in my circle.

Also, gamers are a vast minority.

Just saying, OEMs do not have the incentive to put those "obsolete" thingamajigs in consumer laptops. Though, in business or gaming, I suppose they do come, no?
Not everything in the world has to revolve around your point of view. USB and Ethernet is important in the target demographic this device aims for.
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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Not everything in the world has to revolve around your point of view. USB and Ethernet is important in the target demographic this device aims for.
I would argue that a device like this isn't suitable for use where the difference between WiFi and Ethernet will be a deal breaker. Do you see this used for manipulating datasets so massive they can't practically be transferred over WiFi? I would imagine work like that requires quite a bit more processing power than what you get from a 2c4t 15W ultrabook. And gaming is of course out of the question, even with the Iris Pro i7. PCs like this are for document creation, web browsing, and other light workloads. While USB does still have a role, it's undeniably true that usage is dropping. And yes, cloud storage is a lot of the reason for this. Still, that's their argument for staying with USB-A rather than C - for flash drives and HDDs (and probably mice).
 

tamz_msc

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I would argue that a device like this isn't suitable for use where the difference between WiFi and Ethernet will be a deal breaker. Do you see this used for manipulating datasets so massive they can't practically be transferred over WiFi? I would imagine work like that requires quite a bit more processing power than what you get from a 2c4t 15W ultrabook. And gaming is of course out of the question, even with the Iris Pro i7. PCs like this are for document creation, web browsing, and other light workloads. While USB does still have a role, it's undeniably true that usage is dropping. And yes, cloud storage is a lot of the reason for this. Still, that's their argument for staying with USB-A rather than C - for flash drives and HDDs (and probably mice).
Here is a scenario - in my university WiFi is unified but the Xerox MFD and NAS is connected to the lab's LAN. What happens when you are working on your laptop and you want to access some data stored in the NAS? Or suppose a visitor has come for a seminar who's leaving in a few hours and has to print his itinerary?

If this thing is aimed for use in such an environment, then I've described situations where Ethernet is incredibly useful to have.
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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Here is a scenario - in my university WiFi is unified but the Xerox MFD and NAS is connected to the lab's LAN. What happens when you are working on your laptop and you want to access some data stored in the NAS? Or suppose a visitor has come for a seminar who's leaving in a few hours and has to print his itinerary?

If this thing is aimed for use in such an environment, then I've described situations where Ethernet is incredibly useful to have.
Again: edge cases, where an USB Ethernet adapter would solve the issue very easily. Any lab with a LAN not accessible through other means needs to have one or two of those lying around these days anyhow.
 

tamz_msc

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Again: edge cases, where an USB Ethernet adapter would solve the issue very easily. Any lab with a LAN not accessible through other means needs to have one or two of those lying around these days anyhow.
And by using an adapter you block the only USB port on this thing; Microsoft should come clear if it wants to become Apple if they are to convince Windows users to buy this. Apple customers might have become accustomed with carrying around adapters and dongles for connectivity, but this I suspect won't go down well with those who want to switch from Apple to Windows. Trust me, there a quite a few of them.

Except for the display, why would anybody buy this over the HP Spectre, Asus Zenbook UX330 or Dell XPS 13?
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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And by using an adapter you block the only USB port on this thing; Microsoft should come clear if it wants to become Apple if they are to convince Windows users to buy this. Apple customers might have become accustomed with carrying around adapters and dongles for connectivity, but this I suspect won't go down well with those who want to switch from Apple to Windows. Trust me, there a quite a few of them.

Except for the display, why would anybody buy this over the HP Spectre, Asus Zenbook UX330 or Dell XPS 13?
Battery life? Also, I'd say the display is a big plus for anyone considering it a plus at all. And there aren't few of us either. Still, this is far from a perfect laptop. It just doesn't look like the useless pile of garbage some here seem to think.
 

tamz_msc

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Battery life? Also, I'd say the display is a big plus for anyone considering it a plus at all. And there aren't few of us either. Still, this is far from a perfect laptop. It just doesn't look like the useless pile of garbage some here seem to think.
Battery life is in the same ballpark as those other models I mentioned. What bugs me the most is that Microsoft passed on the opportunity to target the Apple fans who were pissed off by the new Macbook Pros.
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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Battery life is in the same ballpark as those other models I mentioned. What bugs me the most is that Microsoft passed on the opportunity to target the Apple fans who were pissed off by the new Macbook Pros.
I kind of agree, but this seems more geared towards the Macbook Air crowd than MBP users - the Surface Book seems to be their play in that segment. Also, battery life is in the same ballpark as the 1080p XPS 13, but with a significantly sharper (and colour-calibrated) screen. Still not comparable DPI to the 4k version, but I don't really see the point of 300+ DPI on a laptop anyhow (at least as long as it means 33% less battery life). Still, after finding out that they actually had USB type-C on prototypes of this (see Dave2D's youtube overview), I'm quite disappointed. It wouldn't have been that difficult to put one of those next to the Surface Connect port. Considering that my current laptop is from 2010 (and I'm only now starting to truly see the need for an upgrade), I want forward-thinking I/O. They use an expanded Surface Connect for the GPU in the SB, so why not make a (backward compatible through muxing or something) Surface Connect 2.0 that is essentially a hardware interface for TB3? That would give them USB 3.1G2, a "free" connection for a USB type-C connector (the TB3 controller has two outputs), and eGPU/external PCIe support for free. Well, not free, but a licencing cost low enough that competitors can afford it in very similar products, at least.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
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Do we really know what is the targeted demographic? Or is it just guessing?

It has to have a specific niche, because of the deliberate lack of ports and 360 hinge.
 

Valantar

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2014
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Do we really know what is the targeted demographic? Or is it just guessing?

It has to have a specific niche, because of the deliberate lack of ports and 360 hinge.
Considering it was presented at an education-focused event (and the generally high adoption rate of Surface devices among students), students are an obvious target demographic.

I think the philosophy behind this is "make it simple, yet nice" more than anything else. Choosing mDP over HDMI is rather baffling in that regard, though, even if it's the Apple standard for years and adapters are abundant.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
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Makes sense.

But they have been pushing pen input hard for long now. It really is a strange omission that there is no 360 hinge here.

Though, they have usage metrics, so i guess they know better.

(Spam removed)
 
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HitAnyKey

Senior member
Oct 4, 2013
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Ethernet still has a place in that it has better speed, latency, less interference, and security. Thus the Surface Book would not be appropriate in an area where privacy and security are paramount.

I would agree 100% But in this day and age with Students and many Adults being very mobile, a built-in Ethernet port was probably not in the top 10 features list.

There are some third party solutions that allow you to expand the ports so that you have extra USB, Ethernet and HDMI connectivity.

I think they are aiming this new Surface right at Students square and center. When they go to lectures, library, Pub, and then back home do they plug in with Ethernet nowadays? I doubt most do.
 
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