Surface Pro 2 is incredible

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bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
It's kind of a backlash from how shitty Touch Cover 1 was. Touch Cover 2 is way way better.

Yeah, I had only casually used the touch cover in stores and hadn't really liked it. I was expecting to just hate it when I got it and thought I'd only really use it as a screen protector, which was fine with me. But pleasantly surprised in just how well it works.

My main complaint is the track pad, especially the buttons. I wish they extended a little bit further down the cover. I keep hitting the space just below the button when I go to make a click. Left-click isn't so bad, as I can just tap the trackpad. But right-click is annoying. I should look in to seeing if I can do a two-finger tap for right-click like on a MBP.

I also have a problem where the trackpad disconnects. The keyboard will still be working fine, but the mouse cursor won't move. Disconnecting the cover for a few seconds and reconnecting it gets it to come back though. Undecided what to do about this or if it really bugs me yet.

Battery life on the SP1 has been... Acceptable. I made a new power plan that, when it's on battery, keeps the CPU throttled to 60% of max power. That seems just fine to handle most things, but I can notice some frame drops when playing back Flash HD video, but it doesn't bother me. I get about 5.5 hours of normal usage out of it with that plan.

It's just hard to get back in to a "manage" mode after using an iPad for years. I make excuses that this is basically a laptop and not a tablet and that seems to help my outlook on it.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
Left-click isn't so bad, as I can just tap the trackpad. But right-click is annoying. I should look in to seeing if I can do a two-finger tap for right-click like on a MBP.

Ok, I hadn't even tried it. You can two-finger tap to emulate a right-click. Productivity++
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
Looking at Intel's Broadwell processor lineup, I don't think it's really worth the wait.

If history is any indication, Microsoft will use U-series processors. The Broadwell U series are still 15w chips, same as Haswell, and they come with GT2 graphics, same as Haswell.

This means the same form factor, the same heat dissipation and close to the same performance in GPU, as it won't get Intel Iris graphics.

I think the best I'm hoping for is a Surface 3 Semi-Pro that uses Broadwell-Y. Still GT2 graphics but a 3.5w or 4.5w chip that may slim down the chassis significantly.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
This means the same form factor, the same heat dissipation and close to the same performance in GPU, as it won't get Intel Iris graphics.

Even at the rated 15W, that is at maximum load. Most of the time, my draws does not come to that level (on occasion, I spiked CPU, but it remains under 50% for working, only approaching 50% for larger brushes, or complex geometry).

I very much still like that computational headroom, and the support to go with it to keep it working.

As well as implementation of the thickness necessary to accommodate vent openings and enough room and clearance for fans IN CASE for needing them for heavy loads for heavy computational tasks on the go.

I rather not have the device only dissipate by spreading the heat throughout the chassis metal - especially for using the Core i5 series processors.

Still GT2 graphics but a 3.5w or 4.5w chip

To get down to this level and keep the same CPU performance as the previous generation, the only way would be scaling down the traces of the transistors and not have any more errant leakage while doing so. It is a balancing problem that has been a factor in process shrinkage since forever - because this would play into reliability issues. (not to mention the incremental testing of such).

Not to mention, part of the power usage comes from moving things into the RAM (iGPU's share or system RAM share otherwise) would use some power load.

But that still does not address cooling options I mentioned. I much rather have an extra insurance and reliability by having fans and use of vents kick in.



The Surface 2 DOES NOT have ventilation, because if it did, it would be just as thick. Do also note, because of the full sized USB port, that these devices would not be any thinner than what they already are (unless you start thinning the chassis material).

Fans and vents, ensure that the device does not suffer from from crashing due to heat, in critical multitasking, heavy crunching situations and not break a sweat.


What you should be asking for, is a Surface Pro-Lite/LX model in between the Surface and Surface Pro. One with a lighter CPU/iGPU combination. Though, I believe Microsoft is leaving the Bay Trail areas to third party manufacturers for implementations.

I also believe their intentions with the Surface devices, was to raise the bar and set another example in Tablet PCs. Thus leaving room in the market for others to throw in their offerings.

For this same reason, this is why Surface RT and Surface 2 exists (from your power standpoint) but also why Microsoft is hesitant to use Bay Trail too, to encourage chip competition (I mean everyone is harping on Microsoft's near monopoly, they are merely addressing that situation and holding to it now - if anyone is to blame for lack of Bay Trail Surface devices, it would be the regulatory markets and lawyers, discouraging continuous sole sourcing - well in my opinion).

If Microsoft wanted to, Surface 2 can easily be a vent less and fan less Bay Trail, and since Windows 8 can still leverage previous RT areas, it is not a loss of transition. But for those very reasons above, it is why they would not do so.

Something that I feel tech sites and articles do not address.


However, in my eyes, it worked far TOO well, raising that bar, because I don't think I can see just an adequate usage, handling, and computing equivalent (Lenovo's Yoga Pros are as close to offering the similar handling and computational areas). I blame Microsoft's magnetic keyboard cover system for that nice enticing straw (and smart move of using the Wacom digitizer).

Of course, in other areas, I believe there are Bay Trail tablets out there with pen capabilities.
 
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bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I'm not sure if you're speaking in general terms a lot of the time, or specifically replying to me. I'll only address parts that I think apply to me and snip the rest of what I consider "general info"

Even at the rated 15W, that is at maximum load.
That's true, but that's what the current Haswell-U chips are rated at. If MS stays with the same line of processors, Broadwell-U 15W, then the unit will still need active cooling, which means form factor isn't changing.

What you should be asking for, is a Surface Pro-Lite/LX model in between the Surface and Surface Pro. One with a lighter CPU/iGPU combination.
That's exactly what I asked for. I think they could do it with a 3.5w Broadwell-Y i3 or something.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
I'm not sure if you're speaking in general terms a lot of the time, or specifically replying to me. I'll only address parts that I think apply to me and snip the rest of what I consider "general info"

I addressed those two points, and gave my background on them. Good that you noted that. I apologize if my writing isn't as quick to the obvious in either directly addressing your points, or to others (as I also intended with such background analysis).
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I'm really bummed because I think a Surface Pro 3 with Iris Pro graphics would be perfect for me. But that's only in the higher-power Broadwell chips so I don't think I'm going to get my wish.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
I would like what you mentioned as well, but I do realize why this is not possible (from a design, engineering, and current market considerations). It is as much of a dream to place my desktop of dual GPU cards and a Core i7 with 32GB of ram in a Surface Pro.

And believe me, I looked at Tablet PC options for the longest time. I also looked at mobile computing options for the longest time (Sony's VAIO Picturebook is the first to catch my eye). But for the longest time, Tablet PCs are MUCH MORE thicker than what the Surface Pro is, and comes with a cumbersome, mechanical hinge. Electronic hardware at the time also needed much bigger dissapation units along with bigger fans that are noisier due to the size of air being pushed.

A Fujitsu Lifebook a friend of mine has, had the Wacom digitizer, but if you look online at the specifications, you can see, it is holding to the laptop model still and using old hardware with the necessary cooling. The one good thing about its release, I use their pen on my Surface Pro 2.

But the really big jump for me from forgoing the laptop (a previous one with AMD mobility HD5650) is a rough number comparison on performance capability. I decided to settle on a good enough point - and work with it. Something that one needs to do when deciding a tool over time.

And I have not regretted it.

I would be waiting forever if I tried to desire the iPad with performance expectations of a Core i5 and the software to go with it. The iPad (and similar Androids) do not offer the software I want to leverage, or will - and leaving me to still need a primary computing device on the go. Not to mention, most of them do not offer the pen options of Wacom either (battery less, universal operations on applications leveraging standard API implementations).
 
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