Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

[Imaginer]

I have a Dell XPS 12, i7, 8GB, 128gb, touchscreen, 8.1, was $1499 (work paid, whew).

Never touch the screen, never in tablet mode... its just a laptop. I have it set to skip the metro screen. I can't imagine what kind of real work, or any other application would make the touch screen useful. Are people actually writing on the displays?

...

Maybe I'm just OLD (27), are kids using touch screens and pen inputs at work all day now?

Yes. I write off notes, complete design scribbles, and do a lot of non linear documentation beyond 1 dimension text typing in OneNote. I tie a lot of clipped content from other Office areas, other programs by screen shots, and by the looks of it, one can even clip videos to OneNote. And mark all of that up.

I also sculpt with the pressure sensitive pen in conjunction with using the keyboard (and possibly a trackball with scroll wheel for extra buttons and panning options). I manipulate my device in ways that I cannot do until now, nor other people can fathom. I quickly switch between the desktop, to reference materials in IE, Kindle, Nook - or even have them side by side with the snapping of Modern and desktop views.

And... I know I am years older than you. So, you are possibly indeed OLD for your age.

(although the correct term, isn't being old, it is more or less being inflexible/versatile).

 

[Nebor]

I have a Surface Pro 1 and was about to buy the SP2 a few weeks ago when MS was having their big sale ($799 for 128gb SP2.) I'm glad I waited. I travel frequently for work and use my SP as my sole computer during that time. It can handle all productivity tasks, plus it's a great little media machine (display port to hotel room TV for Netflix\hulu\vudu) plus it can play games (runs Civ 5 like a champ.) While I do find the price on the i7 to be pretty high, I don't think I could live with myself knowing I got something less than the best. FWIW my desktops & laptops have i7s instead of i5s and they don't do anything but games.

So I guess my SP 1 will be off to eBay when the SP3 comes out. The new power connector looks way better. And hopefully they've fixed the AWFUL keyboard problems of the SP1 (frequently disconnects, or never connects, causes the machine to hard reset, etc.)

 

[gorcorps]

It's not going to be as solid as a laptop, no, but I think you're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill with regards to "such an awkward balancing act". It's imperfect, but I don't think it would present much of a problem for any moderately competent person.

I'm not making a mountain out of anything. I'm telling you my experience. I had a Surface for work, I couldn't use it to get work done at home without being on a table which for me wasn't acceptable. I got a Helix instead and it's great, even the trackpad (which was worthless on the surface).

I really like the surface, I do. I think it's solidly built and the magnetic connections work well. That's why I'm disappointed that after 3 generations of this thing they still don't offer a Helix style keyboard.

 

[Dribble]

I'm sure a some people will love it but the markets pretty small. Windows is expected to be cheap - you can get a 12 inch laptop that does windows fine for a lot less then a surface pro. If you want a tablet you spend $200 on an android one that's smaller and lighter.

Sure there's a market for premium windows devices with better build quality and nicer screens, but look at intel and it's ultrabook attempts - it's just not that big. If you are the sort of person who spends big $$$ for shiny gear you're very likely to buy a mac.

Form factor doesn't help - 1.6 pounds and 12 inches is too big for a tablet, but too small for a laptop for most people. Kind of stuck somewhere in the middle, sure some do want that but most want their tablet to be smaller and lighter and their laptop to big bigger with larger screen and better keyboard.

 

[rituraj]

I'm not making a mountain out of anything. I'm telling you my experience. I had a Surface for work, I couldn't use it to get work done at home without being on a table which for me wasn't acceptable. I got a Helix instead and it's great, even the trackpad (which was worthless on the surface).

I really like the surface, I do. I think it's solidly built and the magnetic connections work well. That's why I'm disappointed that after 3 generations of this thing they still don't offer a Helix style keyboard.

I really loved the helix idea, too bad they aren't making any revisions of that AFAIK. But to make the surface helix like, the keyboard dock must be very heavy, at least as heavy as the tablet itself and that makes it a 3+ pounds device. Many people and reviewers complained about the helix's weight although it was very comparable to any 13inch notebook. And they can't just put dead weight in there. People (including me) would want an extra battery, more ports like vga, ethernet, sd, sim card, optical drive. I would also want a mechanical hard drive in there. But people would also want that at $1400ish price which is not practically possible for microsoft. But again anything more than that is practically not possible for the average consumers. I bet your helix was more than that. This would be a perfect device even with a hefty price. But people are too poor to buy this as they have to upgrade their perfectly working phone with the next one no matter what it costs.

Even if microdoft is not going to make anything like this, I hope some third party makes it.

(I am just writing what I think, not gonna buy this because I can't. Microsoft and their CEO, I repeat, their CEO... don't know my country exists. None of the surface models were launched in india)

P.S. I think lenovo is going to make another helix, a haswell version, just before intel releases their broadwell. What a "perfect" timing that was for the first helix.

 

[Eug]

Honestly, I still don't really see the point of the Surface line overall, but at least the one thing the Surface 2 Pro had going for it was the size. It had basically a full-sized keyboard, but was only 10 inches.

Now it's moved to 12", which is laptop category, and in fact, Microsoft basically says it's a laptop. However, at that point I'd much rather have a traditional laptop, esp. since the 12" Surface Pro 3 is priced the same as a laptop (and doesn't even include the keyboard in that price).

P.S. My next touch screen device will likely be an iPad Air 2. After that I'll probably get a 12-13" laptop, likely some sort of Retina MacBook.

 

[mmntech]

Microsoft kinda pulled an Apple releases the Surface Pro 3 so soon after the last hardware revision.

I had a 12'' iBook all through university and it suited me just fine. Though as a tablet, I wonder if that screen size might be a bit too big to hold it in the hand. Though it's only 200g heavier than my iPad, which isn't too bad.

It's not quite a replacement for my iPad but if I were looking for a new laptop, I'd strongly consider it. It's the tablet I wanted back in 2010. A light weight touch screen system that runs a full OS while still getting great battery life. Bit pricey though for a system where I can't upgrade the internal storage or memory. One of the things I don't like about the MBA as well.

I also assume the Windows 8 app store is still lagging behind its competitors.

 

[Ravynmagi]

I was listening to a podcast last night were they a couple reporters who were at the event were talking about using the Surface Pro 3 on their lap and said very few people could do it. It's just too big. Not surprising. When I had the Surface 2, with the kick stand out back and the keyboard in front, the kickstand was already resting right on my knee cap. And it was an awkward balancing act as Gorcorps mentioned. With the Surface Pro 3 being even bigger, I can see why so few people at the event could use it on their lap.

 

[finbarqs]

This is probably really catered to the artists/photographers out there, who cried out for a bigger format than the 10"

 

[Eug]

This is probably really catered to the artists/photographers out there, who cried out for a bigger format than the 10"

They could have solved the problem by having both form factors available.

I had a 12'' iBook all through university and it suited me just fine. Though as a tablet, I wonder if that screen size might be a bit too big to hold it in the hand. Though it's only 200g heavier than my iPad, which isn't too bad.

Well, 200 g is almost half a pound, which is a lot when your iPad is only 1.4 lbs. However, the current iPad is only 1.05 lbs, whereas the Surface Pro 3 is 1.76 lbs. It's a 0.7 lb difference, and that doesn't even include the keyboard which IMO is mandatory for Surface 3.

With the regular keyboard the Surface 3 is 2.42 lbs. I suspect it's more with the better keyboard with discrete keys. 2.42 lbs is actually slightly HEAVIER than the 11.6" MacBook Air.

Now, I'm not a big fan of the MacBook Air, because it has a crappy screen and it's not Retina, but I'm even less of a fan of the Surface Pro 3. However, I suspect the release of the rumoured 12" MacBook Retina in 2014 will make the Surface Pro 3 even less attractive.

 

[Imaginer]

I was listening to a podcast last night were they a couple reporters who were at the event were talking about using the Surface Pro 3 on their lap and said very few people could do it. It's just too big. Not surprising. When I had the Surface 2, with the kick stand out back and the keyboard in front, the kickstand was already resting right on my knee cap. And it was an awkward balancing act as Gorcorps mentioned. With the Surface Pro 3 being even bigger, I can see why so few people at the event could use it on their lap.

At that point, it is much like how I handle a spiral bound, many many page, sketchbook. The device (and cover) would be flat on my lap or the cover slightly elevated against my lower torso or up against my lower stomach (for the few commands I utilize when drawing or typing short text) - this allows me to utilize the pen at the same time as typing and drawing or anything in between.

Hence why, even I like the variable kickstand (for when placed on a table to adjust for multiple seating heights and device placement from the seater) it isn't a deciding factor why I am passing on the Pro 3 (the pen's component sourcing is the biggest reason why).

Even with the keyboard cover folded back to provide a base for the shallow easel angle - one can utilize the on screen keyboard for short commands upon invocation from the taskbar or it would activate on any modern UI's textboxes (from the typical iPad keyboard layout, to the split thumb keyboard, to handwriting recognition).

This isn't something one would figure out on initial usage of the device - it more or less interrupts the typical mentality of a laptop/tablet computer mentality.

 

[rituraj]

For the love of God people, stop comparing it with ipads. I thought anandtech readership made sensible points sometimes. It's not that many of the posters don't know the difference in platform, cpu arch, and intended use, it looks like many posts are about whether the surface pro can replace a tablet or laptop or both or not. Thats not gonna do anyone any good. Please let us confine the discussion in whether it does or doesn't do the things it's supposed to do and how good it is at those.

 

[Eug]

For the love of God people, stop comparing it with ipads. I thought anandtech readership made sensible points sometimes. It's not that many of the posters don't know the difference in platform, cpu arch, and intended use, it looks like many posts are about whether the surface pro can replace a tablet or tablet or both or not. Thats not gonna do anyone any good. Please let us confine the discussion in whether it does or doesn't the things it's supposed to do and how good it is at those.

Your post illustrates the problem here actually. Microsoft has positioned the Surface line as a laptop AND tablet replacement, so of course, people are comparing it to... guess what... laptops and tablets.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, it is a compromise on both fronts, which is why I think MS still won't have a real winner with the Surface Pro 3.

EDIT:

Jeez. You called it a tablet in your very own post in this thread:

I really miss full sized SD card slots in modern devices. Especially the ones targeted at people dealing with photos.

Some more things I'm disappointed with this one:

1. No slot for stylus. Dang it's sold separately now.
2. Not WACOM, n-trig. But have to wait to see if it is better or worse.
3. Once again, the type cover is not included in price
4. More ports.
5. 3G/4G/LTE
6. Probably again no love for India. Nobody wants to import a tablet and then buy a round plug adapter.

 

[TreVader]

I really like the surface pro 3, I think I'm probably going to buy for one thing: Touch enabled Adobe products.


This is the first time (Surface Pro) that I've seen microsoft produce anything not related to the xbox that I thought was worth actual money.


Whether or not it beats or matches the macbook air is irrelevant. It's a unique product with good build quality that offers features apple doesn't. Very very impressed.

 

[Eug]

Whether or not it beats or matches the macbook air is irrelevant.

Of course it's relevant, although I would change "MacBook Air" to "laptops" The question here for me isn't whether or not it's an interesting niche product. What's important here to MS's bottom line is whether or not it's actually going to be a truly popular product.

My early prediction is no, it will not, because it makes too many compromises to try to create a new product segment. They've wedged themselves into this niche hoping to take it by storm, but unfortunately for them that hasn't happened yet. I predict the 12" Surface Pro 3 won't change much here.

 

[TreVader]

Of course it's relevant, although I would change "MacBook Air" to "laptops" The question here for me isn't whether or not it's an interesting niche product. What's important here to MS's bottom line is whether or not it's actually going to be a truly popular product.

My early prediction is no, it will not, because it makes too many compromises to try to create a new product segment. They've wedged themselves into this niche hoping to take it by storm, but unfortunately for them that hasn't happened yet. I predict the 12" Surface Pro 3 won't change much here.

Surface Pro does not have to "beat" laptops and tablets, or even take lead market share in one or the other to become popular. It's a quality product, and I think microsoft has actually been very smart about not shoving in whatever anybody asks for in the hope of doing what you suggest (beating apple).

There is room for surface and the macbook air/ipad. I think you're right in that I don't think surface will surpass macbook air or iPad sales any time soon but it will sell well, if only to people like me who use photoshop and illustrator on a macbook pro and would love a full-featured touchscreen to use with that.

 

[rituraj]

Your post illustrates the problem here actually. Microsoft has positioned the Surface line as a laptop AND tablet replacement, so of course, people are comparing it to... guess what... laptops and tablets.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, it is a compromise on both fronts, which is why I think MS still won't have a real winner with the Surface Pro 3.

EDIT:

Jeez. You called it a tablet in your very own post in this thread:

Haha.. I hate to agree with you here but I have to. I think they should've thought of a new catchier name. Apple never called their products by their categories, they had a name for each of them. Even microsoft's got the xbox, Nobody says they bought a gaming console from microsoft or sony. With a device with this kind of identity crisis they needed a catchy name very badly..

They had a great product but very poor advertising. Apple made a product in a category that wasn't popular in the market back then and made it a huge thing. By advertising and great design combined with the app store.

Another thought: The other day a colleague of mine saw me reading about the SP3 and said that was amazing and could really consider buying one despite the price. But the thing is that, it was the first time he saw it (He is not an average, but a brilliant, highly qualified person). Only the people who visit tech sites and news regularly know about it. The colleague of mine knows about the iPad and knows what it exactly does, but realizes that he doesn't need one. I think that's the case with the majority of people who actually need a device like an SP3. They all know the iPad exists but don't have a clue about the surface pro. I can see a great demand for it among the science and engineering students and teachers, not just the artists and design people.

Microsoft has got a lot to do other than calling a small bunch of journalists to a presentation.

Edit: Jeez.. I almost ended up comparing it to the iPad

 

[Graze]

Too big and might not replace a laptop. I think the Surface 2 is great for a run around dev on the go device though.

 

[TreVader]

It's not going to replace the laptop. If microsoft is setting their goal on replacing an item that ubiquitous they'll be disappointed.


It will capture marketshare on something. I'm buying it, most of the people I know at least like it and the main reason people aren't going nuts about it is it's not cheap.


Microsoft is trying to create a premium, high quality item that will become a big thing like the iPad. The good part is they produced a great product, the bad part is they may be too ambitious and just not as good as apple with aesthetics.

 

[Eug]

It's not just aesthetics. It's functionality. IMO it fails as a tablet (because of the OS), and it fails as a laptop (because of the design). It's an in-between device, but I don't really see the draw of such a device, except for a niche group.

 

[Imaginer]

It's not just aesthetics. It's functionality. IMO it fails as a tablet (because of the OS), and it fails as a laptop (because of the design). It's an in-between device, but I don't really see the draw of such a device, except for a niche group.

In my opinion, separate devices to juggle is an antithesis of function for me. But the second bolded point combined with the existing functional capable software (and it isn't all bad in handling on either past Pros and would be better on the Pro 3) is perfectly more functional than my previous laptop - and again it isn't something one can really get a handle on with even a short time with it.

(much like why people hate trackballs {finger or thumb based ball} - in that argument, my transition involves at least a constant use (2 weeks ish) learning curve for the better)

The third bold, is why products like this - as much overall designed it is - is not released all to often or even considered due to catering to the typical masses. It is why I am screaming at times why such a Surface Pro like device hasn't surfaced for awhile - industry bickering, business analysis, mass consumer mentality, going where the numbers are in the market - instead of formulating a balanced supportable business around a good product.

 

[biostud]

I think it's pretty cool, but I don't really have any use for it. (same goes for any tablets)

 

[TreVader]

It's not just aesthetics. It's functionality. IMO it fails as a tablet (because of the OS), and it fails as a laptop (because of the design). It's an in-between device, but I don't really see the draw of such a device, except for a niche group.

If the touchpad, screen, and stylus are in order I will buy it because although Windows sucks and I'd much prefer OSX, apple just does not produce a touch enabled device this functional. Not even close.

The problems you're picking out have more to do with personal preference than any issue for the device. I think it actually succeeds as a tablet because of the touchpad and form factor combined with the processing power, and although it's no laptop replacement I would love to take this with me on a trip or just have it around to do editing and illustrating without having to go to my notebook.

 

[mmntech]

They could have solved the problem by having both form factors available.


Well, 200 g is almost half a pound, which is a lot when your iPad is only 1.4 lbs. However, the current iPad is only 1.05 lbs, whereas the Surface Pro 3 is 1.76 lbs. It's a 0.7 lb difference, and that doesn't even include the keyboard which IMO is mandatory for Surface 3.

With the regular keyboard the Surface 3 is 2.42 lbs. I suspect it's more with the better keyboard with discrete keys. 2.42 lbs is actually slightly HEAVIER than the 11.6" MacBook Air.

Now, I'm not a big fan of the MacBook Air, because it has a crappy screen and it's not Retina, but I'm even less of a fan of the Surface Pro 3. However, I suspect the release of the rumoured 12" MacBook Retina in 2014 will make the Surface Pro 3 even less attractive.

Still a crap load lighter than my 4lb beast of a laptop, which is lighter than my 12'' iBook G4 which tipped the scales at 5lbs. So as I said, it would make a pretty good laptop replacement when you want something full powered but want something that can also be used as a tablet.

 

[Imaginer]

Another opinon as to why I feel Microsoft's Surface Team could have still stayed with Wacom's solution of an active digitizer, is to overextend the EMR digitizer layer beyond the screen display to the bezel edges that the overlap would eliminate the screen-pen-cursor drift of the pen on the actual display.

It will not solve the feature of wanting the pen to activate the Surface Pro 3. And I believe the team can do this AND still reduce the screen glass thickness to achieve their parallax solving issues.

(And adding being able to recognize the pen rotation and pen tilt for - again calligraphy options and recognition and additional manipulation options)