Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

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Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
It's awesome for reading PDF's and the like since you have more text on screen compared to landscape mode.

There are more text vertically and it is easier to follow lines, since they are shorter horizontally.

Under landscape however, I view two pages side by side, or snap something else as another reference or work side by side. Being in some orientations of the tablet PC in close proximity to my view, the text size is nice for me per the resolution.
 
Last edited:

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Yeah, but who's actually using a Surface in portrait very often?

I definitely would, if it wasn't awkward.

With the SP1/SP2, the 9:16 portrait orientation ratio is ridiculous. It's worthwhile for reading pure text, like PDFs and some web pages, but it's too skinny to be effective elsewhere, and doesn't really work perfectly for documents.

That 3:2 (and portrait 2:3) ratio is going to lend itself much better to portrait web pages, office documents, etc.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
I still hold that the primary think holding back the Surface line is software.

Microsoft desperately needs to get out from under Windows 8. I know Windows 9 (aka Threshold) is around the corner and will address a lot of concerns, but it can't come soon enough. They need to figure out a more elegant way to switch from different modalities without completely jarring the user. They are close, IMHO, but not quite there yet.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Does all i7 have Iris Pro? How much graphics performance increase is the Iris over HD?

It's not Iris. Iris is only on the 28W parts, and Iris Pro is on the 47W parts. The Surface Pro 3's i7 uses HD 5000. Which is still an advancement over the HD 4400.

With all cores and hyper threading active, it runs at 1.7ghz, the i5 runs at 1.9ghz.

With all cores + HT + graphics active it'll run at such speeds. With graphics not being used much(CPU intensive) i7 will clock in average higher. The base clocks are low because when the GPU is utilized fully, i7 has less headroom. But it won't be the case when its only the CPU working.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I still hold that the primary think holding back the Surface line is software.

Microsoft desperately needs to get out from under Windows 8. I know Windows 9 (aka Threshold) is around the corner and will address a lot of concerns, but it can't come soon enough. They need to figure out a more elegant way to switch from different modalities without completely jarring the user. They are close, IMHO, but not quite there yet.

Yup. Every time I hit desktop tile on my Surface Pro I drop it to the floor and retreat under the nearest table to cradle my knees to my chest. It's so jarring.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Yup. Every time I hit desktop tile on my Surface Pro I drop it to the floor and retreat under the nearest table to cradle my knees to my chest. It's so jarring.

Microsoft is trying to truly pioneer the chasm between the desktop and mobile territories.

As they have demonstrated, and everyone else has demonstrated, that chasm cannot yet be bridged with the current software and hardware combinations. Perhaps the only limit is truly software, which would suggest we are not far from realizing this dream.
If it is hardware, that could explain why we are at these particular crossroads.

Why else should we still be seemingly so far away?

Do not forget that the pioneering attitude can take a few generations to truly latch onto, and take over, a market. The iPhone was a pseudo smart device at the first onset, missing much of what made it the success it has become. It was a well-engineered but minimal and boring pot shot at the market - it took another round or two establish itself in the market. Apple pioneered, demonstrating that their business approach could ultimately succeed,

I firmly believe Microsoft is on to something here. First consider that the hybrid software market has been considered previously, Everyone knows the consumer market is out there, ripe for the right product. That said, getting a full enterprise-class OS to be friendly and workable in the consumer tablet space is next to impossible, for all intents and purposes.

There are the few who can make do and thrive on a few iterations of the concept as they exist today, but that does not make the market; that makes the niche. If the developers can help establish that healthy
 

tsupersonic

Senior member
Nov 11, 2013
867
21
91
There are more text vertically and it is easier to follow lines, since they are shorter horizontally.

Under landscape however, I view two pages side by side, or snap something else as another reference or work side by side. Being in some orientations of the tablet PC in close proximity to my view, the text size is nice for me per the resolution.
That's fine too. I usually read PDF's or ebooks on my SP2. Why not, right? Microsoft wants to sell it as a tablet, right? I usually lay in bed with the device in portrait mode, I find that form nicer to hold/more comfortable. Most of my usage of the SP2 is just internet browsing. I don't do much productivity on this device (although I do have a type cover 2). I mostly use the pen input/Onenote for just jotting down quick notes. But, yeah, it all comes down to user preference/needs.

Microsoft is trying to truly pioneer the chasm between the desktop and mobile territories.

As they have demonstrated, and everyone else has demonstrated, that chasm cannot yet be bridged with the current software and hardware combinations. Perhaps the only limit is truly software, which would suggest we are not far from realizing this dream.
If it is hardware, that could explain why we are at these particular crossroads.

Why else should we still be seemingly so far away?

Do not forget that the pioneering attitude can take a few generations to truly latch onto, and take over, a market. The iPhone was a pseudo smart device at the first onset, missing much of what made it the success it has become. It was a well-engineered but minimal and boring pot shot at the market - it took another round or two establish itself in the market. Apple pioneered, demonstrating that their business approach could ultimately succeed,

I firmly believe Microsoft is on to something here. First consider that the hybrid software market has been considered previously, Everyone knows the consumer market is out there, ripe for the right product. That said, getting a full enterprise-class OS to be friendly and workable in the consumer tablet space is next to impossible, for all intents and purposes.

There are the few who can make do and thrive on a few iterations of the concept as they exist today, but that does not make the market; that makes the niche. If the developers can help establish that healthy
I think Microsoft is a bit ahead of their game, which is why Win 8 has some mixed reviews. Either people really love it, absolutely hate it, or there are few in between. I am on the in between side - I love Windows 8 on my Surface Pro 2 - easily the best Windows 8 experience on any device ever. However, put Windows 8 on a desktop, and it just makes no sense at all. I want a start menu, the metro err modern start screen is just absolutely useless on a non-touchscreen device (imo). Fortunately for me, I can use Startisback (or similar programs) to restore the start menu on a desktop computer and reap the other benefits of Windows 8. They should have taken their time to release Windows 8. Windows 8.1 U1 should have been the initial release of Windows 8 - they tried to push a big change too quickly. They're trying to make a one size fits all OS (or at least a consistent UI) that works amongst WP, computers, and Xbox. I just hope they can get it right.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Ugh. Is it June 20th yet? I'm going crazy waiting for this. It's cruel and unusual punishment. Feels like I'm waiting for Christmas.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
They really need a more rigid and hinged keyboard option. If you combined that with the battery keyboard you'd get a pretty epic road machine. Imagine close to 15 hours battery life, one of the thinnest, lightest form factors available, and some real processing guts inside of it. Plus you can rip the keyboard off of it and watch netflix easily in bed once you get to your hotel.

As it is right now, the lack of hinged keyboard makes real "lap" work almost impossible and it's awkward on many other less than ideal..errr..surfaces.

I don't want every keyboard to be that way, but the power pack one seems to make the most sense.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
They really need a more rigid and hinged keyboard option. If you combined that with the battery keyboard you'd get a pretty epic road machine. Imagine close to 15 hours battery life, one of the thinnest, lightest form factors available, and some real processing guts inside of it. Plus you can rip the keyboard off of it and watch netflix easily in bed once you get to your hotel.

As it is right now, the lack of hinged keyboard makes real "lap" work almost impossible and it's awkward on many other less than ideal..errr..surfaces.

I don't want every keyboard to be that way, but the power pack one seems to make the most sense.

I don't know about that anymore. While it still is not an absolutely perfect replacement for the true hinged keyboard/screen of solid laptops, some reviewers have been saying the new kickstand, larger form factor, and new stabilizer magnet bar on the keyboard help make it a breeze to use on your lap.
http://gizmodo.com/surface-pro-3-review-the-greatest-laptop-tablet-hybrid-1581896186

Your statements are true with the SP1 and SP2 - I find it rarely comfortable to use on my lap.
And the idea of a solid stable hinged keyboard is definitely something I'd be interested in buying for something like the SP3, but it would really need to just about double the weight of the total kit and introduce some new sacrifices.

It's now about a balance of what is right for what - the option should be provided, however, and there's always a possibility they could introduce a hinged keyboard but I wouldn't expect it to have many extra features other than a hefty battery.

It would need to be fairly solid and thick to be able to house a strong enough hinge and locking system to keep the Surface upright without the kickstand.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
At least you don't have to wait until September for the i7 version!!

I was thinking about the i7 version. But I know me, I wouldn't make it that long. I'd be on the news looking disoriented as police haul me away in handcuffs from my failed attempt to steal the demo unit at the Microsoft Store.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I don't know about that anymore. While it still is not an absolutely perfect replacement for the true hinged keyboard/screen of solid laptops, some reviewers have been saying the new kickstand, larger form factor, and new stabilizer magnet bar on the keyboard help make it a breeze to use on your lap.
http://gizmodo.com/surface-pro-3-review-the-greatest-laptop-tablet-hybrid-1581896186

Your statements are true with the SP1 and SP2 - I find it rarely comfortable to use on my lap.
And the idea of a solid stable hinged keyboard is definitely something I'd be interested in buying for something like the SP3, but it would really need to just about double the weight of the total kit and introduce some new sacrifices.

It's now about a balance of what is right for what - the option should be provided, however, and there's always a possibility they could introduce a hinged keyboard but I wouldn't expect it to have many extra features other than a hefty battery.

It would need to be fairly solid and thick to be able to house a strong enough hinge and locking system to keep the Surface upright without the kickstand.

The Venue 11 Pro accomplishes that just fine. The slimmer form factor of the SP3 would make it a lot more feasible.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
The Venue 11 Pro accomplishes that just fine. The slimmer form factor of the SP3 would make it a lot more feasible.

Are you saying because they offer both the thin keyboard and a keyboard-dock? Yeah, I do like that.

However, it does add significant weight.
The Surface Pro 3 (12") weighs about 2.4 lbs with the Surface Pro Type Cover (SP3 model).
The Venue 11 Pro with with the heavy keyboard is 3.32 pounds.
With the light keyboard, 2.25lbs.
 

rituraj

Member
Nov 10, 2012
97
0
66
They really need a more rigid and hinged keyboard option. If you combined that with the battery keyboard you'd get a pretty epic road machine. Imagine close to 15 hours battery life, one of the thinnest, lightest form factors available, and some real processing guts inside of it. Plus you can rip the keyboard off of it and watch netflix easily in bed once you get to your hotel.

As it is right now, the lack of hinged keyboard makes real "lap" work almost impossible and it's awkward on many other less than ideal..errr..surfaces.

I don't want every keyboard to be that way, but the power pack one seems to make the most sense.

I couldn't agree more. They are selling the cover separately anyway, just make another heavy dock cover or get someone else to make it. That way people who have no problem with a couple pound weight will buy that and the rest the type cover.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I couldn't agree more. They are selling the cover separately anyway, just make another heavy dock cover or get someone else to make it. That way people who have no problem with a couple pound weight will buy that and the rest the type cover.

Heck, they've already laid the groundwork: the Type Cover has that magnetic bar that allows you to let it fold up a little onto the tablet so that the keyboard has an angle instead of lying flat. If you take that profile and extrapolate, it looks a heck of a lot like the Venue 11 Pro's heavy-hinged keyboard profile.
It would probably weight about the same.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
I was really disappointed with the Dell Venue 11 Pro. And it's so weird, because I love the Venue 8 Pro. Not sure what was going on, but I had lots of quirky driver issues with the 11 Pro and ended up returning it.

I'm looking at the Lenovo Thinkpad 10. I like it has a keyboard dock, sadly no hinge for some reason, but from the pictures the angle appears better than the Miix 10. And it's nice Lenovo made a 10 inch tablet with a 16:10 aspect ratio (most had been 16:9). It's Baytrail, so appears to have great battery life.

But I think I'm still sticking with my Surface Pro 3 pre-order. Liking the idea of the 12 inch screen and 3:2 aspect ratio. And the Thinkpad 10 prices that have leaked (nothing official yet) look kinda high for a Atom tablet (though it's a very nice Atom tablet).
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
With all the magnets on the keyboard dock, maybe Logitech could make one of their Ultrathin style keyboards that has a groove in it that the tablet attaches to magnetically.

That very likely wasn't practical with the previous Surface Pro tablets because of their thickness and weight. But the SP3 is much thinner and a little lighter and the weight spread out more, so maybe it's possible this time.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
I don't know about that anymore. While it still is not an absolutely perfect replacement for the true hinged keyboard/screen of solid laptops, some reviewers have been saying the new kickstand, larger form factor, and new stabilizer magnet bar on the keyboard help make it a breeze to use on your lap.
http://gizmodo.com/surface-pro-3-review-the-greatest-laptop-tablet-hybrid-1581896186

Your statements are true with the SP1 and SP2 - I find it rarely comfortable to use on my lap.
And the idea of a solid stable hinged keyboard is definitely something I'd be interested in buying for something like the SP3, but it would really need to just about double the weight of the total kit and introduce some new sacrifices.

It's now about a balance of what is right for what - the option should be provided, however, and there's always a possibility they could introduce a hinged keyboard but I wouldn't expect it to have many extra features other than a hefty battery.

It would need to be fairly solid and thick to be able to house a strong enough hinge and locking system to keep the Surface upright without the kickstand.

As stated earlier, you still have to balance the stand on your leg. The keyboard was only half the problem, and doesn't change how awkward it is in the lap.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,357
9
81
Maybe it's just me, but I've never had any real issues with my SP2 on my lap. However, that's not how I like to work and only do it briefly, such as typing longer responses such as this. Most of the time I pop the kickstand out, and flip the keyboard underneath so it kind of forms an |> shape. Make it more comfortable as what I mostly find is the kickstand is annoying on my legs. Then I just surf around with my fingers or pen.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
I was really disappointed with the Dell Venue 11 Pro. And it's so weird, because I love the Venue 8 Pro. Not sure what was going on, but I had lots of quirky driver issues with the 11 Pro and ended up returning it.

Did you have the 7130 Venue 11 Pro? The one with an i3 or i5?

They did have some issues with them and I believe they even recalled a number of them. The 5130 (Atom) has been rock solid though. With the keyboard attached, it's only slightly thicker than the Surface Pro 2 with a touch cover, the Venue 11 Pro is available with integrated WWAN, has a 8MP camera, removable battery, chiclet keyboared with nice travel on the keys and has a 16 hour battery life. I'd recommend looking at the Atom ones if you haven't.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
As stated earlier, you still have to balance the stand on your leg. The keyboard was only half the problem, and doesn't change how awkward it is in the lap.

Assuming the kickstand and keyboard are both resting on both legs... what's to balance?

Or are you envisioning sitting it on only one leg for some reason?
 
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