Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

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Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Assuming the kickstand and keyboard are both resting on both legs... what's to balance?

Or are you envisioning sitting it on only one leg for some reason?

Speaking from experience with the Surface Pro 1 and Surface 2, I understand complaints about it being awkward and requiring some balance.

The Surface Pro 1 just had the one angle and sometimes I found the tablet would fall backwards collapsing the kickstand, though the keyboard always held on so it didn't land on the floor or anything.

The Surface 2 (I never had the Pro 2) had a wider angle that would prevent the tablet from falling backwards on the lap, however this also has a large footprint on your lap and the edge of the kickstand could slide off the edge of your knees.

Another issues is 10 inch tablets are not that wide, so there is some balance involved in keeping it in the center of your lap.

The Surface Pro 3 will solve that last issue being an extra 1.5 inches wider. But it seems like it's going to have a larger footprint in the lap, so might be harder to keep on the lap without the kickstand falling off the edges of the knees without using a large viewing angle.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Yeah it was just a combination of things that made the Surface awkward to use on your lap. Poster above hit on most of them. It's not uncommon for me to grab a laptop and use on the couch, or if I'm traveling while seated waiting for an airplane. In those situations the surface is much more difficult to find a comfortable and stable position to type at. You need to remove the reliance on the kickstand and shift the support to the base/keyboard in those settings. The surface requires too much depth to it's footprint in cramped quarters because of the kickstand.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
Maybe it's just me, but I've never had any real issues with my SP2 on my lap. However, that's not how I like to work and only do it briefly, such as typing longer responses such as this. Most of the time I pop the kickstand out, and flip the keyboard underneath so it kind of forms an |> shape. Make it more comfortable as what I mostly find is the kickstand is annoying on my legs. Then I just surf around with my fingers or pen.

That "tent" support style is what I do in bed, for leisure, as the Type cover folded under the propped stand allows for a good support on the chest.

On a couch, both are extended flat on my lap/legs. There is also some usages with perchance in some seating conditions with the Type cover actually declined against my lower stomach for typing (yes, I am weird for doing this typing style, but it works well - while keeping my device in a solid drawing, writing, pen cursor position).

By the way, does anyone know if stores have display models of the Surface Pro 3 to test? I like to have a handle of the pen and see if it still has pen cursor hover as well if not better than the Pro 2 (not that I am in a buying mode anytime soon).

Edit:

June 6th is when a specialty store in my area will have a display model up for looking and playing around.
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
I was very, very close to pulling the trigger on one of these.

I needed something that I could take with me when I travel but was smaller than a laptop. I also needed something I could use on my work bench, where there is very little free room. I actually had the i7 256 gig in my cart, ready to purchase. But then I saw that it would not be shipping until 8/31. That got me looking for other solutions.

I ended up going back and forth between the SP3 and Lenovo Yoga Pro 2. Both have very, very similar specs and features. I ended up going with an i7 Yoga Pro 2 since I could have that right away and not have to wait 3 months.

We will see if I made the right call.
 

rituraj

Member
Nov 10, 2012
97
0
66
Was just browsing through tabletpc forums and found this.

Can anyone venture a guess as to what the following answer from the AMA means?

Question: Where is the thunderbolt link? You could have external GPU's and make it a desktop replacement, I thought the "ultrabook" standard included thunderbolt?

Answer: “When you buy your Surface Pro 3, do me a favor, and take a close look at the power connector."

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...nay_and_the_surface_team_at/chse0d4?context=3

The original question is deleted for some reason though. Some amazing discussions in the source page.

Anyway, it looks like Microsoft has kept some reserved bandwidth in those connectors. {But I'm not sure what he meant by the "power " connector, the charging cable connector or the keyboard cover connector, most likely the latter. Edit: Now I'm confused. May be the charging connector}. This could open a whole new window for an ecosystem of accessories by third party or proprietary ones by MS. They are probably just waiting for the correct design mix. Or am I being too optimistic?
 
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TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
The issue i have with the i7 is that the only difference between it and the i5 is clock speed. They are both 2C2T parts and I think they are both HD5000 also.


I will buy the biggest possible storage option because I think I made a mistake not going with the 1TB SSD on my rMBP.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
I was very, very close to pulling the trigger on one of these.

I needed something that I could take with me when I travel but was smaller than a laptop. I also needed something I could use on my work bench, where there is very little free room. I actually had the i7 256 gig in my cart, ready to purchase. But then I saw that it would not be shipping until 8/31. That got me looking for other solutions.

I ended up going back and forth between the SP3 and Lenovo Yoga Pro 2. Both have very, very similar specs and features. I ended up going with an i7 Yoga Pro 2 since I could have that right away and not have to wait 3 months.

We will see if I made the right call.

No digitizer & stylus on the Yoga puts it in a completely different class in my mind. For your use though it sounds like that doesn't matter though, so the Yoga should be a good choice.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
Was just browsing through tabletpc forums and found this.



http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen...nay_and_the_surface_team_at/chse0d4?context=3

The original question is deleted for some reason though. Some amazing discussions in the source page.

Anyway, it looks like Microsoft has kept some reserved bandwidth in those connectors. {But I'm not sure what he meant by the "power " connector, the charging cable connector or the keyboard cover connector, most likely the latter. Edit: Now I'm confused. May be the charging connector}. This could open a whole new window for an ecosystem of accessories by third party or proprietary ones by MS. They are probably just waiting for the correct design mix. Or am I being too optimistic?

It's the charging connector. The plug on the power brick only has two pins and the connector itself has more pins. So maybe this was a vague reference that the desktop dock accessories uses Thunderbolt to connect to the dock and provide sufficient bandwidth for the display, USB devices that are plugged into the dock. But there is no Thunderbolt port on the dock. So no way to directly take advantage of that Thunderbolt connection, if it is one at all.

Seems like this was a question best left unanswered rather than the answer they gave.
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
24
81
The issue i have with the i7 is that the only difference between it and the i5 is clock speed. They are both 2C2T parts and I think they are both HD5000 also.


I will buy the biggest possible storage option because I think I made a mistake not going with the 1TB SSD on my rMBP.

The main difference is the i7 does have the better GPU. The i5 only has an HD4400.
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
2,057
2
0
The main difference is the i7 does have the better GPU. The i5 only has an HD4400.

I took a look and unfortunately the 20EUs in the GT3 part in HD5000 scale horribly without the eDRAM of the HD5200. You end up with about 20% better GPU in synthetics and maybe 5-15% increase in real world game performance.



That's pretty dismal scaling. I am def going to stick with the i5 part there is zero reason to get i7 without HD 5200 or better if it's the same number of cores/threads. You're basically paying for crappier battery life at the cost of 2-5fps in games with the i7.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
I took a look and unfortunately the 20EUs in the GT3 part in HD5000 scale horribly without the eDRAM of the HD5200. You end up with about 20% better GPU in synthetics and maybe 5-15% increase in real world game performance.



That's pretty dismal scaling. I am def going to stick with the i5 part there is zero reason to get i7 without HD 5200 or better if it's the same number of cores/threads. You're basically paying for crappier battery life at the cost of 2-5fps in games with the i7.

The only reason to go for the i7 configuration, is the absolute need for the largest offering SSD (512GB) for me. Otherwise, I can simply always get by on 256GB of storage (as I have been in any laptop device I have thus far in persistent installed programs + SD card + external sticks and drives).

The i7 may have a slightly better performance envelope legroom, but it isn't worth it for the cost/computing areas if it is not a fulll 4C/8T mobile unit that can really throttle per computing demand (mobile or plugged-in/docked). Fan is indeed necessary.

Perhaps, Pro 4 releases will offer that high end offering once Broadwell comes (or if AMD can really be compelling by that point for Microsoft to pull a Wacom to N-Trig).
 

gmaster456

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2011
1,877
0
71
Lap usage is the only thing stopping me from getting the surface. Everything else on it looks great. On a table or desk it would be fine. Thinking about waiting for Pro 2 prices to drop a bit more and maybe I'll pick one of those up instead.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Lap usage is the only thing stopping me from getting the surface. Everything else on it looks great. On a table or desk it would be fine. Thinking about waiting for Pro 2 prices to drop a bit more and maybe I'll pick one of those up instead.

By all accounts, it seems like lap usage is a heck of a lot better with the SP3 than previous models. They were too small and too limited with the hinge for comfortable lap usage.
 

Rdmkr

Senior member
Aug 2, 2013
272
0
0
It sounds to me like this needs something that enables it to be used on a person's lap without a kickstand behind it. An external keyboard that holds up the screen rigidly at the hinge. It sounds like an easily solvable engineering problem and frankly a dumb thing for them not to come up with immediately.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
Stopped by the MS store today and held one.

If I wasn't so interested in switching back to OS X, I would upgrade. Any version. Even the i3. Definite upgrade form-factor wise to the SP1/2.
 

Zink

Senior member
Sep 24, 2009
209
0
0
It sounds to me like this needs something that enables it to be used on a person's lap without a kickstand behind it. An external keyboard that holds up the screen rigidly at the hinge. It sounds like an easily solvable engineering problem and frankly a dumb thing for them not to come up with immediately.

The only way to do that is to make the keyboard base significantly heavier than the display and add a bulkier hinge. With a light keyboard and everything else behind the screen the "laptop" would just flip over backwards, even just using it on a desk. The best compromise that still leaves a fully usable ultrabook form factor seems to be a Yoga or XPS flip-hinge but that is much bulkier than modern tablets because the keyboard isn't removable.

I still don't see the right compromise, and even if the hardware was perfect Windows 8 still isn't. For me I'm thinking the right solution is a 13" non-touchscreen ultrabook for all desktop through laptop computing with either a larger smartphone or phone and 8" tablet.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
The only way to do that is to make the keyboard base significantly heavier than the display and add a bulkier hinge. With a light keyboard and everything else behind the screen the "laptop" would just flip over backwards, even just using it on a desk. The best compromise that still leaves a fully usable ultrabook form factor seems to be a Yoga or XPS flip-hinge but that is much bulkier than modern tablets because the keyboard isn't removable.

I still don't see the right compromise, and even if the hardware was perfect Windows 8 still isn't. For me I'm thinking the right solution is a 13" non-touchscreen ultrabook for all desktop through laptop computing with either a larger smartphone or phone and 8" tablet.

What we did discuss earlier is the potential to make an optional keyboard dock that COULD satisfy those who want such "lapability."

It would be heavier, but it could be made lighter quite quick when you don't need such a sturdy hinge.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
I took a look and unfortunately the 20EUs in the GT3 part in HD5000 scale horribly without the eDRAM of the HD5200. You end up with about 20% better GPU in synthetics and maybe 5-15% increase in real world game performance.



That's pretty dismal scaling. I am def going to stick with the i5 part there is zero reason to get i7 without HD 5200 or better if it's the same number of cores/threads. You're basically paying for crappier battery life at the cost of 2-5fps in games with the i7.

It is not horrible scaling, it is instead targeting something else which is better battery life. Graphics scale very well with execution units. You will get similar performance of 40 EU at X clock speed as 20 EU at 2X clock speed. That said you can run the chip at a lower voltage with the 40 EU unit for usually there is a relationship between high frequencies and higher voltage. So you get better battery life. Or you can have the chip turbo for a longer period of time for the chip is under the specified tdp due to greater energy efficiency.

You are right though there is barely any improvement on graphics with a 15w sku and the 5000 and 4600.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
The only reason to go for the i7 configuration, is the absolute need for the largest offering SSD (512GB) for me. Otherwise, I can simply always get by on 256GB of storage (as I have been in any laptop device I have thus far in persistent installed programs + SD card + external sticks and drives).

I have a 128gb SP1 and never used more than 50gb. It has a SD card slot too...
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
It sounds to me like this needs something that enables it to be used on a person's lap without a kickstand behind it. An external keyboard that holds up the screen rigidly at the hinge. It sounds like an easily solvable engineering problem and frankly a dumb thing for them not to come up with immediately.

Viewing angles of the previous Pros makes a kickstand on my lap moot - since I am also writing as well as typing on the device (and drawing).

A ridgid keyboard hinge is something other OEMs already catered to, a point of having other OEMs allowing for a more "traditional" laptop feel of solely using a keyboard (and possibly trackpad) and touchscreen. In short, more hardware options, not solely in the mindset of Apple solely controlling the hardware releases.

I can name the Yoga being the top of my mind of catering to such.

Again, the issue rises, when I write with the pen. Propped, it is going along with writing on a vertical surface like a whiteboard/chalkboard. Inclination, is not something that I find at all nice when writing or drawing, either on a table or lap via propped manner.

I saw past tablet PCs before such as a Samsung ATIV 700T that does follow that solid hinge. Problem with that is, many find the keyboard base too light, but adding weight by external battery would increase the weight - thus not satisfying the other camp complaining about "weight issues". It also does not satisfy the camp of needing to undock and redock and wearing the mechanical locks for certain deployments.

The 700T, also cannot fully hinge back, meaning I cannot easily write + draw and go back to typing at the same time.

Something, that many would not see right away - given many on hands reviews as one from Anandtech being just typing journalists. A comment I have seen, is a proper review would be had in the hands of designers, artists, and engineers. People that outright would create and use the device in full, orchestrating that entirety of past and present software that is capable, with hardware and form to match.

Something I have not seen before, something the market if all OEMs follow will not allow due to the "follow the leader" mentality.

For the record, the current Surface Pro 2 I have, lies flat on my legs, keyboard slightly declined on my lower stomach for typing. If need be, both are resting on the full stretch of my legs. Indian style sitting, both are cradled in between my legs, giving me ample room for typing AND pen work with touch.

Edit:

And yes, with those deployment methods, the type cover keeps up with me typing, with no problems.

Even with the on-screen keyboard, the split thumb keyboard is my preferred method of input, giving my thumbs adequate typing while in a tablet form. This isn't utilized often, more or less quick bursts while two handling the device when needed, along with a pen on some occasions. Being the Pro 3 is lighter, this would be more conducive - being that the form area is more comforting like a clipboard, instead of a narrow 16x9 aspect, would possibly be better - of which I would like to test one out.
 
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IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
Been running Diablo 3 on mine all day. simply amazing device. I will upgrade to i7 when released. not because of bad grafix, more for AutoCAD.

All the over the top analysis in this thread and other online reviews is crazy. SP3 is the best I've used, period. Stupid price for the keyboard pisses me off but oh well. Office should be free too, at least with the i7 models when released.

Pen is crazy awesome/useful.
It does get a little warm when playing Diablo.
Display is BEAUTIFUL.

No GPS is stupid too! Not a deal killer by no means but it would've been nice.
 

sarav

Junior Member
Dec 23, 2011
24
0
66
I am very interested in getting the SP3 but I can't quite make up mind between the 128 and 256 GB versions. Not sure if the extra 4GB RAM and 128 GB space is worth the extra 300 bucks. What do you guys think?
 

v-600

Senior member
Nov 1, 2010
488
3
76
I am planning on going for the 256 (dates allowing). I'd love the 512GB with an i5, but doubt that will happen before 2015 (if it gets a mid year update to broadwell) or a SP4. I think the difference could easily be made up by a docking station and external HD if you only need to keep huge files at home.
 
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