Surface Pro 3 thread - Info, thoughts, opinions

[OneOfTheseDays]

Everyone lamenting the lack of Wacom tech ought to read this:

http://blog.surface.com/2014/05/get-know-surface-pro-3-pen/

I absolutely applaud Microsoft for having the balls to come up with something that is truly innovative and pushing the boundaries of what we think a computing device can be. The SP3 is the first time where I've actually felt they nailed their original goal.

I own the SP2 and honestly there is no going back to regular laptops after owning one of these. You look around at the folks on planes using MBA's and they truly seem bulky and out of place in comparison.

I'm personally making the switch once Broadwell refresh hits. The battery life will be even better and they'll have another year to refine things even further.

 

[gus6464]

So who picked one up today?

 

[bearxor]

Everyone lamenting the lack of Wacom tech ought to read this:

http://blog.surface.com/2014/05/get-know-surface-pro-3-pen/

I absolutely applaud Microsoft for having the balls to come up with something that is truly innovative and pushing the boundaries of what we think a computing device can be. The SP3 is the first time where I've actually felt they nailed their original goal.

I own the SP2 and honestly there is no going back to regular laptops after owning one of these. You look around at the folks on planes using MBA's and they truly seem bulky and out of place in comparison.

I'm personally making the switch once Broadwell refresh hits. The battery life will be even better and they'll have another year to refine things even further.

I'm going to say one thing about MacBook Airs. Iris.

Edit: ok, two things. PCIe storage.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

I'm going to say one thing about MacBook Airs. Iris.

Edit: ok, two things. PCIe storage.

Shitty TN panel. Non 1080P resolution.

 

[Trombe]

I'm going to say one thing about MacBook Airs. Iris.

Edit: ok, two things. PCIe storage.

I dunno, I'd rather give these up than accept the TN panel that comes with the MBA package. HD5000 especially, seeing as how it performs about the same as HD4400/4600 because of the 15W TDP. PCI-E SSD is faster for sequential reads/writes but it's still pretty much the same for randoms.

 

[Imaginer]

Everyone lamenting the lack of Wacom tech ought to read this:

http://blog.surface.com/2014/05/get-know-surface-pro-3-pen/

I absolutely applaud Microsoft for having the balls to come up with something that is truly innovative and pushing the boundaries of what we think a computing device can be. The SP3 is the first time where I've actually felt they nailed their original goal.

I own the SP2 and honestly there is no going back to regular laptops after owning one of these. You look around at the folks on planes using MBA's and they truly seem bulky and out of place in comparison.

I'm personally making the switch once Broadwell refresh hits. The battery life will be even better and they'll have another year to refine things even further.

The only drawback (ha another pun) maybe the discerning 256 levels of pressure. (and coming off of a Lifebook pen that had a total of two pressure sensitive ends that are assigned to write or erase/another pen and two side buttons with Wacom's radial menu for one, is something of a loss.

The Surface Pro 3's pen, has a writing tip, and two side buttons, but one is assigned an erase from my knowledge, and the other being a right click - possibly not more customization akin Wacom's radial menu. And the power-on end of the pen.

The blog gave me some relief, but ultimately, it is the one lack of extra button and especially the 256 levels if it makes for a same if not better experience despite the hard numbers being a fourth of the sensitivity of Wacom's solution.

Of course, the above points in my mind would be even more mitigated in want if the Surface Pro 3's pen had pen tilt recognition and barrel rotate function, further making the pen more "brush like" in some applications.

I will eagerly await a Surface Pro 4. I am perfectly satisfied with my current Pro 2.

 

[Imaginer]

I dunno, I'd rather give these up than accept the TN panel that comes with the MBA package. HD5000 especially, seeing as how it performs about the same as HD4400/4600 because of the 15W TDP. PCI-E SSD is faster for sequential reads/writes but it's still pretty much the same for randoms.

This. For being such a device one can actually do artwork out and about, the screen is an absolute MUST with being good on a device like the Surface Pro lines.

Also, having a wide viewing angle spectrum (considering the multitudes of device orientation the Surface Pros can have) is also a MUST. A Macbook Air, generally is used as a laptop, and only a laptop (vertical viewing angle spectrum isn't as important).

 

[Demo24]

All im hoping for is that they don't stop here with the surface 3. I have an sp2 and really like everything they've done with sp3, but kinda hard to justify upgrading again after just 6 months. So I'm really hoping we get to see an sp4 with broadwell, I think by then I could justify upgrading again.

 

[rituraj]

Just a question. Do you people think 256 levels of sensitivity is really going to be a problem? Let us ignore the lowest and highest few as a margin of error i.e. give or take 10 levels on either end which leaves us with 236 levels. Now if a pressure of level 11 can draw a line 1 pixel thick and level 236 can draw a line about 50 pixels thick, then we need only 50 levels in between. Again if a difference of 4 levels is required to show the difference in thickness of 1 pixel, then too we need only 200 levels (50×4). I can't think of a scenario where I would want a single brush tool to draw a 1pixel thick line and a 50 pixel thick line.

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. I have no idea whatsoever of the working principle of a pressure sensitive digitizer, just made it up. There may be some othe information too that each level of sensitivity has to represent, like opacity, inclination, orientation etc. and such. So if such issues are there we may need more pressure levels. But if the maximum and minimum are quite far apart, I don't think the intermediate ones are going to be noticeable.

 

[ChronoReverse]

When you draw, you tend to not use the full range of pressure. One drawer might use the bottom quarter of the range because of a light hand while another might use the top quarter because of a heavy hand.

you can train yourself to use the full range but it's simply nicer if the pen has the resolution to deal with whatever your pressure range is.

 

[destrekor]

When you draw, you tend to not use the full range of pressure. One drawer might use the bottom quarter of the range because of a light hand while another might use the top quarter because of a heavy hand.

you can train yourself to use the full range but it's simply nicer if the pen has the resolution to deal with whatever your pressure range is.

I expect that's for the thing - it gives people an easy ability to only slightly adapt whatever is natural for them, as opposed to nearly having to entirely retrain their concept of pressure.

Pro-level sensitivity is currently 1024 and 2048 levels of sensitivity. Most entry-level pro, or "prosumer" have either 512 or 1024.

I was dismayed by the note that the SP3 only has 256, and a complete lack of eraser nub. Do we REALLY need a power/wake button on the pen? And that, INSTEAD of a pressure-sensitive eraser? I guess, however, if the eraser button turns the tip into a pressure-sensitive eraser, that would be decent enough.

What still must be answered is tilt recognition, imho.

Granted, I do respect the decision to focus on the importance of latency and accuracy. I'm not a big fan of the end-result on the SP1, which I currently own, because there's that parallax they discussed (the sensor is not at the tip itself, so a tilt introduces perceived accuracy error), and the edge sensitivity is abysmal. I tried to perform a calibration and, when the pen is aligned well, the majority of the screen works well enough, but overall the limitations do shine through: lag/latency is minimal but noticeable, you should focus on the central screen region to avoid major error, and overall it just feels unnatural.
I tried a Wacom tablet (Bamboo Create and Touch) but I couldn't really adjust to working on the tablet and watching on screen - I'd rather work directly on the display, and Wacom's Cintiq line is crazy expensive. I didn't extensively compare Surface Pro and any Wacom tablet, and so I'm not really aware of how much latency there is naturally with Wacom tech, if any when not directly built into a display.

 

[TreVader]

So it's a low resolution capacitative touchscreen? What is the resolution on then iPad?



I think if anything SP3 is important because it just may force apple to put a touchscreen on the macbook air. I think I could forgive the retina if it was an IPS touchscreen.

 

[destrekor]

So it's a low resolution capacitative touchscreen? What is the resolution on then iPad?



I think if anything SP3 is important because it just may force apple to put a touchscreen on the macbook air. I think I could forgive the retina if it was an IPS touchscreen.

Low resolution?

Surface Pro 3:
2160x1440

iPad Air/Retina:
2048x1536

MacBook Pro (Retina):
2560x1600

It draws somewhat fewer pixels (barely) than the iPad retina display, but at those resolutions, I can hardly see that as a fault.

One) Windows is terrible with DPI scaling, so I'll be curious to see how this really fares.
Two) It's more than enough for both the eye and for display/editing purposes. Of course, that's just my opinion... others will still crave and demand more resolution than even the MBP offers. People are going to want 4K just because.
For some reason, I don't think it would really do good to see a photo at 1:1 pixel representation at the display's native resolution, and have it only be whatever the display size is. I could be wrong, considering I've never laid eyes on a photo displayed on such a monitor and tried to edit for pixel-level detail...

 

[TreVader]

Low resolution?

Surface Pro 3:
2160x1440

iPad Air/Retina:
2048x1536

MacBook Pro (Retina):
2560x1600

It draws somewhat fewer pixels (barely) than the iPad retina display, but at those resolutions, I can hardly see that as a fault.

One) Windows is terrible with DPI scaling, so I'll be curious to see how this really fares.
Two) It's more than enough for both the eye and for display/editing purposes. Of course, that's just my opinion... others will still crave and demand more resolution than even the MBP offers. People are going to want 4K just because.
For some reason, I don't think it would really do good to see a photo at 1:1 pixel representation at the display's native resolution, and have it only be whatever the display size is. I could be wrong, considering I've never laid eyes on a photo displayed on such a monitor and tried to edit for pixel-level detail...

I mean the digitizer not the screen resolution. What is the touch element sensitivity on the screen?

I do like the 16:10 ratio on the iPad

 

[Imaginer]

Just a question. Do you people think 256 levels of sensitivity is really going to be a problem? Let us ignore the lowest and highest few as a margin of error i.e. give or take 10 levels on either end which leaves us with 236 levels. Now if a pressure of level 11 can draw a line 1 pixel thick and level 236 can draw a line about 50 pixels thick, then we need only 50 levels in between. Again if a difference of 4 levels is required to show the difference in thickness of 1 pixel, then too we need only 200 levels (50×4). I can't think of a scenario where I would want a single brush tool to draw a 1pixel thick line and a 50 pixel thick line.

Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. I have no idea whatsoever of the working principle of a pressure sensitive digitizer, just made it up. There may be some othe information too that each level of sensitivity has to represent, like opacity, inclination, orientation etc. and such. So if such issues are there we may need more pressure levels. But if the maximum and minimum are quite far apart, I don't think the intermediate ones are going to be noticeable.

Sometimes, I do want a heavy hand on some strokes. Sometimes I am very light as I can - in the same pen brush and cursor area placements. Having not be able to change between a "low" spectrum or "high" spectrum as little frequently as possible helps.

This may not apply during sketching - more or less applies in painting. This also may apply in 3d sculpting.

As far as the edges and actual workspaces - I tend to have the subject matter in the middle or middle areas of the screen - if I need to, I pan as such, I tend not to draw on the last 2 inches margins of the screen (navigation and edge drift to menu buttons is where most of the complaints lie when it comes to some Wacom FeelIT devices - at the very last quarter to 1/8th inch margin). Accuracy outside of those margins, is not bad (though change upon device orientation, not just pen orientation). Hence why I am clamoring for a tilt and barrel rotate function to help with it more. Glass thickness does help however.

DPI scaling, ultimately has been fine in the programs I use (Painter, Manga Studio, Mudbox). Adobe, is however committed to fix this (not sure if it would apply to any device). The resolution is perfectly fine (and possibly more so on the Pro 3, given the bigger draw areas and upped resolution).

Latency with the strokes is not bad on the Pro 1 and Pro 2 I had time with. I expect the same with the Pro 3. Only in painting programs with complex brushes and processing will I even start to see the paint trail my pen tip for continuous long strokes.

 

[bearxor]

We appear to be getting some confirmations that the i7 chip used is the 4650U, a 1.7ghz part with Iris.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/26absk/i7_versions_uses_the_4650u_which_has_intel_hd/

Also, Gabe from Penny Arcade has weighed in on the drawing:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-pro-3

 

[Imaginer]

We appear to be getting some confirmations that the i7 chip used is the 4650U, a 1.7ghz part with Iris.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/26absk/i7_versions_uses_the_4650u_which_has_intel_hd/

Also, Gabe from Penny Arcade has weighed in on the drawing:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-pro-3

They have also removed the “high performance” power option from the Surface Pro 3. It used to be that you could essentially tell the Surface “fuck my battery I want you to kick ass” and that’s no longer an option. Apparently this has something to do with the new quick wakeup abilities.

I like this option in some cases. And good to note about the right Windows icon on the side, instead of the bottom. I know I seldom have issues with my thumb occasionally rare if never hitting that, but definitely would pose a problem what Gabe mentioned about the Windows icon being on the right middle side.

Good to definitely know that coming from his perspective that it may not be a bother. Combined with N-Trig offering Wintab drivers for the rest of the programs, it is no loss at all for those interested in a Surface Pro 3.

I still would miss the radial menu and one more button option with my Fujitsu Lifebook pen though.

 

[bearxor]

Moving the windows key doesn't even seem like it was that helpful. If you have the keyboard docked, you don't need the windows button. You can just use the key on the keyboard.

I feel like moving the windows button was probably more about branding than functionality. This way you can always see the windows logo.

And it ends up doing annoying stuff like this:

 

[Sweepr]

We appear to be getting some confirmations that the i7 chip used is the 4650U, a 1.7ghz part with Iris.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/26absk/i7_versions_uses_the_4650u_which_has_intel_hd/

The options are: Core i3-4020Y, Core i5-4300U and Core i7 4650U (Iris Graphics).

www.zdnet.com/which-cpus-will-you-find-in-the-surface-pro-3-7000029820

 

[bearxor]

Also, the Surface Pro 3 is thin. And these are the pics to prove it.
http://www.neowin.net/news/gallery-the-surface-pro-3-is-thin-and-here-are-the-pics-to-prove-it

 

[SKORPI0]

Resolution: 2160 x 1440 • Aspect Ratio: 3:2. ^_^

Wish it was 2560x1440, 16:9.

Models available.

 

[destrekor]

Resolution: 2160 x 1440 • Aspect Ratio: 3:2. ^_^

Wish it was 2560x1440, 16:9.

I'm starting to actually come to the conclusion: I wish 16:9 would die in the computing world.

I always said it sucks when viewing 16:9 content if on a 16:10 or taller aspect ratio, because of those black bars - but I rarely watch lengthy videos, and often video is wider than 16:9 anyway.

It's a worthless resolution for content creation (unless you are creating 16:9 content, even then, I suspect you want a taller monitor so menus has space too), and for regular browsing and documents, it's terrible.

3:2 is a very interesting choice. Non-standard, so I really want to know why they settled on that, as in, the real reasons. I dig they are making portrait better, which is great, because portrait on the SP1/SP2 is beyond ridiculous - not tall and skinny, it should have a little more width for portrait. But 3:2? I wonder if they simply wanted to avoid 4:3, ONLY because of the iPad? As in, they didn't want it to seem like a "me too" decision.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Hopefully Microsoft will give us a way to disable the Windows button on the tablet. How many Windows buttons do we need. We have the Windows button on the taskbar, another on the charms bar, I don't really need a Windows button on the bezel, it gets in the way more than anything.

I'm concerned about the performance issues Gabe mentioned. I hope it's more to do with the apps he's running. But still, seems like a Core i5 should be able to handle Photoshop and Manga Studio at this resolution. I might consider paying more for the Core i7 model, but no way I wait an extra 2 month and 11 days. I'm already counting the hours until June 20th.

I didn't realize anyone really wanted a 16:9 ratio tablet, but I guess we found evidence of at least one person in this thread. I'm excited to see how this 3:2 ratio works out for me. I like the 16:10 ratio on my Android tablets and the 4:3 on my iPads, but something in between like 3:2 sounds like it might finally be the sweet spot I've been looking for.

 

[Canbacon]

I believe they mentioned the 3:2 ratio in the keynote to be lose to a legal paper ratio.

 

[Red Storm]

The only "problem" I have with the Surface is that it's a better laptop replacement than a tablet substitute. Gaming is one of my prime Windows uses, and every year we get thinner and thinner gaming laptops, especially this year with the new MSI Ghost and Razer Blade. I just can't see myself spending so much on a Windows machine that can't play games as well as other, similarly priced Ultrabooks.